Noah's Ark

[Subduction Zone]

Challenging Evolution

Thank you very much for the link.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thank you very much for the link.

My pleasure -- thot you'd like it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then do it, show us the math.

Sure. Roughly speaking the flood took five months (150 days) to reach 8000-12,000 feet altitude (plus an extra 22 feet just to make sure), about 3 feet per hour, or about .6 inches per minute; hardly a 'gulley washer'. It is very doubtful that man had lived above that altitude as all sorts of health problems would occur due to lack of oxygen.

Based on the ark being lifted up after 40 days it's location would have been somewhere along the 2600 foot level, probably in the foothills of the Mts. of Ararat.

However if the tallest peak of the Mts. of Ararat (which I believe were the "mountains" of the story) were indeed covered to 22 feet it would still mean a relatively slow moving flood.

 

[Obliquinaut]

As an atheist, that kind of lie is expected;

you will have to save yourself from YHWH'S judgment, death,

unless you turn to Him to accept His Truth, His Way, soon. --- He won't give a second chance after death, and may close the door to life - any opportunity - sooner than death.... His Choice: He won't negotiate.

Truly a God worth fearing. The best kind!

 

[Obliquinaut]

It's not a problem for me. As the earth was covered with tall thick grasses with tough dense root systems there would have been practically none of the erosion and deposition that science insists on.

No erosion or deposition in a global flood? That would be a MIRACLE.

If I run the hose for a while in my back yard I move sediment.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Sure. Roughly speaking the flood took five months (150 days) to reach 8000-12,000 feet altitude (plus an extra 22 feet just to make sure), about 3 feet per hour, or about .6 inches per minute; hardly a 'gulley washer'. It is very doubtful that man had lived above that altitude as all sorts of health problems would occur due to lack of oxygen.

Based on the ark being lifted up after 40 days it's location would have been somewhere along the 2600 foot level, probably in the foothills of the Mts. of Ararat.

However if the tallest peak of the Mts. of Ararat (which I believe were the "mountains" of the story) were indeed covered to 22 feet it would still mean a relatively slow moving flood.

OK, just for a sec here the volume of a "shell" of water on a sphere that is 8000' feet deep is calculable:

V=4/3*pi*(r^3-(r-t)^3) where r=radius of earth (20903520 feet) and t=thickness of water layer (8000ft)

That means you are moving 43,911,000,000,000,000,000 cubic feet of water in 150 days and you think that's going to be kind of mild? (someone please double check my math).

 

[Obliquinaut]

You need to study hydrology.

Something tells me that since Subduction Zone has that particular handle here on the forums that hydrology is a topic they are rather familiar with. While it may not be a core class in a geology degree it is built into almost every sed-strat class and one pretty much would have to live with the topic.

Perhaps you'd like to explain the Hjulstrom Diagram to us!

The 'inwash' would leave little evidence of erosion as the grasses and other vegetation would hold the soil.

Grass is not a universal adhesive. There are still loose sediments everywhere.

Only after the grasses were completely dead would some erosion occur in the 'outwash' as the flood receded, and that would have been insignificant.

Couple problems here:

1) there would be massive layers of what are called biocoenoces or life assemblages of dead animals. Animals that lived together but died in the same time frame. (Including the giant mat of super-grass you hypothesize)

2) It would only be insigificant if you moved 4.3X10^19 cubic feet of water away from the surface in 150 days if it was Miracle Water moving over Miracle Sediment. (Here's an experiment you can do at home: take a cup of water and pour it over a bare patch in your back yard and see if some sediments don't move. Again: refer to the Hjulstrom Diagram)

Very fine organic material would remain suspended and be swept out to sea. Heavier sediments would settle out very quickly

Are you familiar with what a clay mineral and clay sized grains are? Do you know how quickly they settle out? (Google Stokes Settling Velocity)

and locally as well (even fine silt settles out quickly even in fast moving water.

-sigh- OK so it appears I need to show you the Hjulstrom Diagram:

 

[Obliquinaut]

I see that no one has an answer for what I like to call the "Lesson of the Cheetah" yet. The fact that you cannot safely grab anyone on the street for an organ transplant tells us that there was no flood.

Grrrr! Well there goes today's activity. And here I had the bags of ice all ready and stuff.

 

[VirOptimus]

Sure. Roughly speaking the flood took five months (150 days) to reach 8000-12,000 feet altitude (plus an extra 22 feet just to make sure), about 3 feet per hour, or about .6 inches per minute; hardly a 'gulley washer'. It is very doubtful that man had lived above that altitude as all sorts of health problems would occur due to lack of oxygen.

Based on the ark being lifted up after 40 days it's location would have been somewhere along the 2600 foot level, probably in the foothills of the Mts. of Ararat.

However if the tallest peak of the Mts. of Ararat (which I believe were the "mountains" of the story) were indeed covered to 22 feet it would still mean a relatively slow moving flood.

Without checking your math, 3 feet/hour is insanely fast for a flood.

 

[Colter]

There is a logical explanation for the flood story. Are you ready?

The authors of Genesis were attempting to trace their blood lines back to Adam who they assumed was the first human. Unable to do so they decided to just drown the entire earth in it's own wickedness to fill the gap.

* Bloodlines were all about authority in that age.

 

[Skreeper]

As an atheist, that kind of lie is expected;

you will have to save yourself from YHWH'S judgment, death,

unless you turn to Him to accept His Truth, His Way, soon. --- He won't give a second chance after death, and may close the door to life - any opportunity - sooner than death.... His Choice: He won't negotiate.

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One should not conflate vertical movement of water with horizontal movement of water. In a flood the damage is done from the water moving horizontally. If one only measured its vertical motion one would find it to be very slow. The Flood may have averaged only a fraction of a foot an hour in vertical movement, but that could be easily many miles per hour of horizontal movement. The water does have to go somewhere.

Once again the water would leave a severe mark.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Yet many of the people of the world/ Germany/ USA/ submit to them every day, one way or another......

 

[Skreeper]

Yet many of the people of the world/ Germany/ USA/ submit to them every day, one way or another......

I can't control what other people do. I can just tell you what I do. And I don't negotiate with individuals who threaten me, god or no god.

 

[Heissonear]

Here's a groovy video I found that talks about Noah's Ark, which happens to be my minor forté.

So I though I'd post it and then pick it apart over time; but not necessarily in chronological order.

The first thing I would like to point out is that Noah's Ark is not a boat, it is an ark.

A containment vessel.

Calling it a boat or a ship shows a disrespect for its true identity.

More later.

Some hard headed, wayward hearts and minds still try to state that Noah's Ark never existed, and the Flood which destroyed the face of the Earth is a fairy tale.

Mockers and those who lead astray are about us. But they should have never come against what is plainly presented in the Bible.

Unbelief can make people do and say ignorant things.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Yet many of the people of the world/ Germany/ USA/ submit to them every day, one way or another......

God doesn't negotiate with us. He is so much more powerful than we are. In a sense He holds all the cards and we are mere mortals. It is His very right and duty to punish us in the most severe way possible when we fail to understand sufficiently. Otherwise how will we ever learn?

 

[Jimmy D]

Unbelief can make people do and say ignorant things.

What about all the Christians who realise that it's just a myth?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Unbelief can make people do and say ignorant things.

You mean like getting degrees in geology? Why would God allow geology to exist if it leads so many people astray?

It's a shame that the Devil created the field of Geology in the first place. Grrrrr.

But then geologists like to look at volcanoes and things deep in the earth...perhaps they are trying to get to Hell where they think they will find all good things. It will be a hard lesson for these geologists when they break through the Moho and reach hell only to find out the horror they have started in on.

 

[Obliquinaut]

What about all the Christians who realise that it's just a myth?

Perhaps God will show them mercy knowing that they've been lead astray by the Evil Geologists.

 

[AV1611VET]

God doesn't negotiate with us. He is so much more powerful than we are. In a sense He holds all the cards and we are mere mortals. It is His very right and duty to punish us in the most severe way possible when we fail to understand sufficiently. Otherwise how will we ever learn?

Theistic evolutionists believe in God and evolution at the same time.

So what is it they are overlooking that keeps them (and agnostics) from becoming atheists?

(Please answer this. And I want to know what they are overlooking ... not what they are claiming to see that others don't.)