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Noah's Ark

KiwiRob

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Do evangelicals have to believe that the flood story is historical fact? I just read it and it seems like a myth to me.

If it's historical, how did the tuatara get to be unique to New Zealand, if Noah's sons populated the Middle East and North Africa?

http://www.bigjude.com/Tuatara.html
 

JohnR7

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KiwiRob said:
Do evangelicals have to believe that the flood story is historical fact? I just read it and it seems like a myth to me.

If it's historical, how did the tuatara get to be unique to New Zealand, if Noah's sons populated the Middle East and North Africa?

http://www.bigjude.com/Tuatara.html

Bio diversification would tend to show that Noah's flood was local. There is plenty of evidence for Noah and his family. Like you said quite a bit is known about Noahs son's and their decendants.

http://www.fmnh.org/vanishing_treasures/Origins_3.htm
 
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX

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JohnR7 said:
Bio diversification would tend to show that Noah's flood was local. There is plenty of evidence for Noah and his family. Like you said quite a bit is known about Noahs son's and their decendants.

http://www.fmnh.org/vanishing_treasures/Origins_3.htm
??????????????????????????????????????????
JohnR7, why do you bother to come here if you never read what evidence people present to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and againover and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again..over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again...
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Yet still you make a statements such as "there is plenty of evidence for noah, and quite a bit is known about Noahs sons", as if there is some extra-biblical evidence? You fail too explain or address any or all the empirical evidence that falsifies. You have no desire to know the Truth.
Why dont you hang out at the christians only section?, you have lost respect over here, and you are offically on ignore, the first time I have ever done so.
 
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JohnR7

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Arikay said:
I think you need to seperate your interpretation of the bible, from the bible itself. Unless you are god.

We have been over this many times. But for those who are new we can go over it again. Jesus set us an example to follow. So we could know the sort of people that God wants us to be. We are to have the divine thoughts, the divine attitude, and the divine nature of God. We then become Children of God and as Children we have authority. This makes us a citizen of Heaven. The Greeks understood this, because you could be adopted and become a Greek citizen with all the privledges of being a Greek citizen. That is why our citizenship is not of this world, our citizenship is of Heaven.

There is no private interpretation of the Bible. Skeptics can deny that all they want, but all true Christians, at least the ones that will be raptured up to be with Jesus will have the same interpretation of the Bible. Because it is the Holy Spirit that helps us to understand what the Bible means. So when Jesus returns for His bride, we will all be united together in purpose and intent. We will all be of one accord and one mind. We will have the mind of Christ.

If you understand this, then we can go on to look at what it means to have the mind of Christ and what it means to wear the Robe of Righteousness. But if your not ready, we can cover that material later.
 
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There is no private interpretation of the Bible. Skeptics can deny that all they want, but all true Christians, at least the ones that will be raptured up to be with Jesus will have the same interpretation of the Bible. Because it is the Holy Spirit that helps us to understand what the Bible means. So when Jesus returns for His bride, we will all be united together in purpose and intent. We will all be of one accord and one mind. We will have the mind of Christ.

If you understand this, then we can go on to look at what it means to have the mind of Christ and what it means to wear the Robe of Righteousness. But if your not ready, we can cover that material later.

Do you ever just sit and listen to your self say these things? Seriously.. sit down.. and start saying these things aloud... think about it...
 
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JohnR7

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TearFromTheInnerSoul said:
Do you ever just sit and listen to your self say these things? Seriously.. sit down.. and start saying these things aloud... think about it...

I think about it all the time. I study this material in Bible collage. We prepare this material to teach in our sunday schools. We have a long list of the things that make up the mind of Christ and another long list of things that make up the Robe of Righteousness.

The Mind of Christ


1. A mind of divine love 2. A mind of peace 3. An anointed mind 4. A praying mind 5. A fasting mind 6. A mind of faith 7. A mind that glorified God 8. A mind of compassion 9. An obedient mind 10. A trusting mind 11. A mind free of all condemnation 12. A mind of full assurance 13. A happy mind 14. A contented mind 15. A tempted mind 16. A mind acquainted with grief and sorrows 17. A mind that wept 18. A magnanimous mind 19. A forgiving mind 20. A serving mind 21. A pure mind 22. A mind of truth 23. A sober mind 24. A resurrected mind 25. A longsuffering mind 26. A mind of prophecy 27. A Holy Ghost mind 28. A believing mind 29. A mind of the nine fruits of the Spirit 30. A mind accepting 9 gifts of the Spirit 31. A mind that feels the need of the Holy Ghost for all people 32. A born new mind 33. A mind of Calvary 34. A mind of Bible Pentecost 35. A mind of one accord with the Father 36. A mind of unity with the Holy Spirit 37. A sacrificial mind 38. A sanctified mind 39. A mind God can reason with 40. A mind with the whole armor of God 41. A made up mind 42. A thankful mind* 43. A mind of holiness 44. A mind that blessed 45. A mind to do God's work 46. A mind of God's wisdom 47. A mind dwelling on the right kind of thoughts 48. A mind with the love bridle 49. A mind of tender mercy 50. A mind of goodness 51. A mind of kindness 52. A mind knowing the will of God 53. A mind God could use as His very own 54. A mind of courage 55. A mind of boldness 56. A mind of hope 57. A Word mind 58. A divine blood mind 59. A mind of divine knowledge 60. A stable mind 61. A consecrated mind 62. A mind of endurance 63. A dedicated mind 64. A mind of encouragement 65. A mind of fellowship 66. A willing mind 67. A perfect mind 68. A working mind (#140)BB 69. A mind connected with heaven 70. A mind God could use all the time 71. A mind to fulfill His divine mission 72. A victorious mind 73. An all-conquering mind 74. A gentle mind 75. A mind with the conversation of heaven 76. A wonderful mind 77. An understanding mind 78. A steadfast mind 79. A mind of joy 80. A Spirit-filled mind 81. A praising mind 82. A grace mind 83. A mind of freedom 84. A mind of living water 85. A mind of unbelievable kindness 86. A grateful mind 87. An on time mind* 88. A spiritual mind 89. A thoughtful mind 90. A soul-wining mind to sow and reap 91. An eternal life mind 92. A healing mind 93. A miracle mind 94. An obedient mind 95. A mind of determination 96. A divine blood mind 97. A mind completely surrendered 98. A mind of honor 99. A perfect mind like the first Adam 100. A mind just like the heavenly Father 101. A sound mind* 102. A mind of power 103. A made up mind 104. A mind with the right attitudes (#134) 105. A patient mind 106. An unshakable mind 107. A mind of compassion 108. A mind with the six spiritual senses 109. The Eden mind with holy physical senses 110. A gracious mind 111. A quick mind 112. A watching mind 113. A mind of pure light 114. A lovely mind 115. A submissive mind 116. A waiting mind 117. A mind of zeal to do God's work 118. A mind of heaven's courage 119. A peculiar mind 120. An alert mind 121. An honest mind 122. A mind of humility 123. A mind of a good report 124. A mind of complete self control 125. A mind without spot 126. A mind without wrinkles, blemishes or any such thing 127. A "boastless" mind 128. A mind to respect each person* 129. A renewed mind 130. A mind of righteousness 131. A mind stayed on the Lord 132. A mind that pleased God 133. The Eden mind 134. A blessed mind of the Beatitudes (#104) 135. A mind with the divine blood shield 136. An exciting mind 137. A mind of blood happiness 138. A mind without any guile 139. An overcoming mind 140. A working mind (#68) 141. A mind of all the promises of God
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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foolsparade said:
Didn't Kent Hovind suggest the flood waters came from a comet? :)

I hope that the smiley face means that you think Hovind's comet idea is bogus because it is.

The problem with a comet as a source of flood water is energy. Typical comet velocities are in the range of 30-60 km/sec but simple physics says that any comet that strikes earth from space must crash with a least the earth's escape velocity of 11 km/sec. The area of the earth is about 500,000,000 square km or about 5 x 10[sup]14[/sup] square meters. A cubic meter of water weighs 1000 kg. To get 1 km of water from the comet we will need about 5 x 10[sup]20[/sup] grams. The kinetic enery in Joules is 1/2 time the velocity in meters/sec squared times the mass in kg. When I do this calculation I get 3 x 10[sup]28[/sup] J. This is enough energy to boil all the water in the comet and all the water in the oceans many time over.

To try to put the energy in perspective a hydrogen bomb that explodes with the force of 1 million tons of TNT releases 4.2 10[sup]15[/sup] j. For Hovinds comet to have enough water to cover the earth to a depth of 1 kilometer, hardly enough to cover the mountains, it will release energy equivalent to 7,000,000,000,000 1 megaton hydrogen bombs on impact. I think that would be a little hard on Noah and the ark.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Siliconaut

Not to be confused with the other Norman Hartnell
@Fruminous B.:
To try to put the energy in perspective a hydrogen bomb that explodes with the force of 1 million tons of TNT releases 4.2 1015 j. For Hovinds comet to have enough water to cover the earth to a depth of 1 kilometer, hardly enough to cover the mountains, it will release energy equivalent to 7,000,000,000,000 1 megaton hydrogen bombs on impact. I think that would be a little hard on Noah and the ark.
Simple ad-hoc explanation: God gave Noah 3.5 million litres of factor 1*10^50 sun blocker to rub it on all the inhabitants, animals (especially marine creatures) and the ship itself. Also, the time-honored practice of "duck and cover" saved the day. :)
 
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LaserCool

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JohnR7, I don't know you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if we met at a party, I'd probably think you were a blithering idiot and I wouldn't waste time on you. You remind me of my preacher brother-in-law: you think you've got all the answers, so you don't listen to others and consider what they say.

So I'd usually not engage someone like you in debate or discussion, but on this one, I'll make an exception.

JohnR7 said:
You can not falsify the Bible. You talk about truth, and the Bible is just that, absolute truth.

Ok tough guy: prove it!

Given that we know that bats are not birds, that Pi does not equal three, and rabbits don't chew a cud, that shows, at least to some part, the Bible contains statements that aren't factual. In fact, they are just plain false.

This completely invalidates your statement that the Bible is "absolute truth"; one non-truth means that it cannot be absolutely true, and I don't care what kind of handwaving and nonsense you blabber.

So, do you want to backpedal? Do you want to talk interpretation? Quite simply, any appeal to interpretation or mistranslation is going to fail as well: absolute truth is...well, absolute. It never fails translation, interpretation or testing.

Take the Pi=3 statement:

2 Chron 4:2 "Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

Any culture, any language, any resonable person can express that the ratio of the circumference of a unit circle to its own diameter through the center may be referred to as pi. And any person may demonstrate that that ratio is 3<pi<4.

The Bible is wrong . In at least this respect it is not true. If there's at least one respect in which it's not true, it cannot logically be "absolutely true". You must accept this as a plainly visible fact.

No doubt you will argue for a flawed understanding, since you accept the Bible as true prima facea , but you have yet to show its "absolute truth".

I may even grant you that the Bible may contain truisms, statements made about generalized conditions of things or people, or maybe contain nuggets of factual, albeit highly prejudicial and distorted versions of historical facts. These do not rise to the degree of "absolute truth". Nor do they make the falsehoods in the Bible magically true.

Carl Sagan was known for saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you have yet to provide the kind of evidence that leads to a conclusion of absolute truth.

Newton is also known for formulating a relationship with truth and claims (theory), namely that all manner of evidence can support the theory, but one contrary bit of evidence can destroy it. Your theory of "absolute truth" fails at the first bit of contrary evidence, and off the top of my head I can remember three.
 
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