Noah's ark - How??

[Calminian]

Untrue.

Flood legends exist in many Mediteranian and Eurasian cultures, noteably those with precursor cultures around the Black Sea basin.

If you keep an open mind I think you'll discover this is not true. Here's an interesting article categorizing the various legends.

Flood Legends from Around the World

Most linguists, geologists, anthropologists and archaeologists agree that the basis for Flood legends are from a real event, the Black sea innundation, which would have been an unutterably world shattering event for the locals at the time, but a long way from a "global flood"

But of course. And all these base their conclusions on the assumption of methodological naturalism. These dismiss supernatural aspects of history a priori. (i.e. circular reasoning)

 

[Stinker]

The Epic of Gilgamesh (which contains the story of the world-wide flood) was written approx. 2700 B.C. -2500 B.C.

According to many scholars, when the ancient Israelites were taken into captivity by the Babylonians, they were exposed to this great story and wrote one similar for their posterity.

When I was younger in the faith, I rejected the Babylonian account because the Biblical one was so much more refined when compared to the Babylonian. As I matured, I came to realize why this refining may have occurred.

 

[Calminian]

The Epic of Gilgamesh (which contains the story of the world-wide flood) was written approx. 2700 B.C. -2500 B.C.

According to many scholars, when the ancient Israelites were taken into captivity by the Babylonians, they were exposed to this great story and wrote one similar for their posterity.

When I was younger in the faith, I rejected the Babylonian account because the Biblical one was so much more refined when compared to the Babylonian. As I matured, I came to realize why this refining may have occurred.

IOW, as you matured you rejected inerrancy? That being the case you really shouldn't be posting here, unless you're starting threads with questions which I welcome you to do.

But to any still immature enough to keep an open mind, here are a few things to consider. The Flood account was most likely written by Noah himself or one of his sons which would place it before the ostensible date of the Babylonian account. While Moses was the author of Genesis, he composed the book from previous preserved writings, probably starting with Adam's. There are many clues for this in the text itself.

For more on this idea that the Israelites stole the account from the babylonians, here's a good article taken from Jonathan Sarfati's book, "Refuting Compromise."

Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic

For those really wanting to delve into this I suggest Nozomi Osanai's article (actually a 7 chapter book).

A comparative study of the flood accounts in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis

 

[EnemyPartyII]

But of course. And all these base their conclusions on the assumption of methodological naturalism. These dismiss supernatural aspects of history a priori. (i.e. circular reasoning)

I'm sure the moment any scientist turns up evidence of any supernatural occurance, we will hear about it on the front pages of many newspapers. Until that time, what, you expect science to make assumptions about "facts" for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence?

 

[Calminian]

...Until that time, what, you expect science to make assumptions about "facts" for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence?

Scientists must be methodological naturalists. I have no problem with this. But what you need to understand is this is an unproven assumption. Science can't prove methodological naturalism. If there are rare events known as miracles, they could never be verified scientifically.

I'm sure the moment any scientist turns up evidence of any supernatural occurrence, we will hear about it on the front pages of many newspapers....

It's actually logically impossible for science to discover something supernatural. Science is limited to that which is repeatable and testable. Miracles by definition are not. Thus science can never verify nor falsify a supernatural event. All observations must be assumed natural (in regard to their cause). Thus even a directly observed miracle would be assumed natural, even if its cause is not immediately known. The moment one acknowledges "miracle", he has ceased to speak scientifically and entered into a broader philosophical realm.

I really like this article by atheist Theodore M. Drange. Science and Miracles In it he delves into the philosophical question of, 'to what extent scientists can affirm miracles?' Very insightful. I’m hoping you’ll be open to it, being it's a fellow atheist.

 

[calidog]

Just...how did Noah pull that one off? Two of every creature? Every beetle? Every poisonous, carnivorous, vicious animal? I don't buy it.

I'm pretty definite that this has been asked and answered, so if it has I would appreciate a link to the post.

according to www.allaboutpopularissues.org
In order to determine if Noah's Ark could have been large enough to save the world's human and animal population from a worldwide marine cataclysm we must first determine how many animals must have been on the boat. So, what kind of animals needed rescuing? According to most scholars, the Genesis account excludes sea creatures and insects from being loaded on the ark. This seems reasonable, since remnants of each of these creatures could have survived the cataclysm apart from the ark. That leaves mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and Noah's family. Next, we must consider that God instructed Noah to bring animals on the ark "after their kind." This means we should appreciate the scientific concept of variations within a Kind. For example, most biologists agree that wolves, coyotes, dingoes, jackals, foxes, and the hundreds of different domestic dog breeds could all come from a pair of original "dogs". Although genetic code won't allow for variations from Kind to Kind, we now understand how DNA allows for variations within a Kind. Taking such variations into consideration, there are roughly 16,000 to 25,000 distinct Kinds of mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians now living or known to have lived in the past.

 

[Key]

IOW, as you matured you rejected inerrancy? That being the case you really shouldn't be posting here, unless you're starting threads with questions which I welcome you to do.

Umm that is not what he said at all.

God Bless

Key

 

[Calminian]

Umm that is not what he said at all.

He was pretty explicit. The story came from the Israelites in captivity in Babylonian, and not from Moses, not from Noah. They simply heard it and repeated it putting their own twist on it, genealogies, etc.. If that's not a denial of inerrancy, I don't know what is. But if you read something different, my friend, please enlighten me.

 

[Rafael]

I think Noah could have done this with God's instructions and help very easily.
When I look at a hand or any human being enjoying God's gift of life, I cant help but think that God floating a boat would be a small proposition for His accomplishment.

 

[heron]

The story came from the Israelites in captivity in Babylonian,

Are other scholars concurring on that now? Interesting.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I think Noah could have done this with God's instructions and help very easily.
When I look at a hand or any human being enjoying God's gift of life, I cant help but think that God floating a boat would be a small proposition for His accomplishment.

God floating a boat is one thing, craming examples of EVERY terrestrial species aboard AND seeing to their correct handling and care so they could survive for the best part of a year while aboard, is something else entirely

 

[Seekermeister]

EnemyPartyII,

Since God brought the animals to the Noah, don't you believe it is possible that God also controlled the animals while on the ark?

 

[winsome]

How did Noah get hold of marsupials? I think they only occur in South America & Australasia. A long way to go to get them

 

[Calminian]

How did Noah get hold of marsupials? I think they only occur in South America & Australasia. A long way to go to get them

No one knows where the animals were before God gathered them to go on the ark. No one knows what the world looked like then. As far as how the animals got to where they are now, many ideas have been offered on this. How did animals get from the Ark to places such as Australia?

 

[phoenixgw]

There's so many questions that come to mind when one reads the story of Noah's Ark. For instance:

1) Was the earth a single land mass at this time? How did Oceana end up with all those strange animals?

2) How long ago did this event occur? How did the various genotypes & phenotypes (physical appearances) develop from this small group without major defects?

3)Was there a hydrosphere (shield of water) above the earth before the first recorded rainfall? Is this hydrosphere what protected people during Noah's time from the Sun's radiation & enabled them to live to such a ripe old age?

We may never know the answer to these questions in our lifetime, but this account does suggest that life on earth is degenerating rather than evolving.

Darwin himself said that if we could not find an abundance of "missing links" (beside those few that are composed of a "trail-mix" of various bones) that his theory of evolution could not hold true.

Does anyone here really believe that we as a species mutated from a blob of goo? I don't buy it!

 

[prophecystudent]

Then how did all of the other animals survive the flood? Animals like polar bears, wolves, and cobras? And how did Noah keep all of the animals alive, considering that animals have different dietary, climatary, and territorial needs which would be in direct conflict with eachother?

You discount the fact that Noah was doing God's will, obeying God's commands. God will never instruct us to do something without making sure we have what we need to accomplish his orders. If God could create the universe and all that was in it, why do you think He could not provide food and water for the people and animals on the ark?

Fred

 

[prophecystudent]

God floating a boat is one thing, craming examples of EVERY terrestrial species aboard AND seeing to their correct handling and care so they could survive for the best part of a year while aboard, is something else entirely

Why? If God can create the universe and all that is in it, why would it be more than a simple thing for Him to do exactly as the scriptures say He did with regard to the flood?

Fred

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Why? If God can create the universe and all that is in it, why would it be more than a simple thing for Him to do exactly as the scriptures say He did with regard to the flood?

Well a boat doesn't seem in keeping with a being who can create an entire universe, God COULD simply blink the flawed Earth and all upon it out of existence and blink a new improved version into existewnce, a boat with livestock aboard is much more in keeping with an ancient bronze age mythology... its sucha human idea...

but that aside, while God COULD have a boat with all the animals aboard, the scripture says that Noah did it all, single handed, the building AND the husbandry, it doesn't mention any explicet miraculous intervention by God to keep the pandas and penguins alive, or to stop the tigers eating the koalas, does it?

 

[Electron]

DNA samples?

 

[Upisoft]

Well a boat doesn't seem in keeping with a being who can create an entire universe, God COULD simply blink the flawed Earth and all upon it out of existence and blink a new improved version into existewnce, a boat with livestock aboard is much more in keeping with an ancient bronze age mythology... its sucha human idea...

Well, if God is so omnipotent they thik He is, He could simply create the best possible Earth from the beggining. And it looks like He is learning from His mistakes, or acting as a software engeneer: "Well, this version had some bugs, but we will soon release the next version that will eliminate them..."

but that aside, while God COULD have a boat with all the animals aboard, the scripture says that Noah did it all, single handed, the building AND the husbandry, it doesn't mention any explicet miraculous intervention by God to keep the pandas and penguins alive, or to stop the tigers eating the koalas, does it?

Well that is problem, but it's even more complex. After leaving the Ark those 2 tigers (or any couple of predators) had to starve to death to make sure that their pray will reproduce in enough quantity. There would be no gnu now if the female lion killed the male or the female gnu. As we can see there are lions, tigers and many more predators. So some "kinds" had to perish to keep the predators alive. Did God thought about that?