Noah's Ark (2)

[Skaloop]

Ijust gave an example in another post. The foundation is still in Jerusalem for Solomons temple. So that is evidence that the temple did exist as the Bible says it did.

That's not scientific evidence that the Bible as a whole is true, it's scientific evidence that the Bible has some historically accurate information in it. There's a huge difference. And just because it has the latter doesn't mean you can extrapolate that to the former.

Heck, the foundational area is still in New York for the World Trade Centre towers. So that is evidence that the towers did exist as the Spiderman comic books say they did. And ergo, undeniable scientific evidence that Spiderman, who does whatever a spider can, spins a web of any size and catches thieves just like flies, is also a real historical figure and all acts attributed to him are also real. QED.

 

[Insane_Duck]

I think he's in vent mode now, bro -- the true colors are starting to show through, and he's asking less questions and making more spurious remarks.

It was more genuine advice. Anyone who says "forsake logic, reason, and burdens of proof" had a real problem. Do you know what a meme is? You are so attached to faith that it's taken over your reason.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Ijust gave an example in another post. The foundation is still in Jerusalem for Solomons temple. So that is evidence that the temple did exist as the Bible says it did. The wall in Jericho are still there. Just like we read about in our Bible and teach our children in their sunday school class. I took some teacher training classes at the Bible college. Do you really think those Bible stories that we teach out kids are not true? There is lots of scientific evidence to back up the Bible. There is lots of evidence in the DNA to back up the geneologys in the Bible. It's a lot more scientific accurate then you seem to think it is.

What do you know about the history of the wheel? Do you know you can read about the Hittites and other early people who had chariots? How much information do you think you can find about these ancient people outside of the Bible? You can go to Egypt and read their history about the ancient people, and the various battles they had. That along with what we learn from the Hebrews gives us quite a bit of information.

You seem to misunderstand. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and your evidence is proof of the ordinary claims made by the bible.

If we found a city of Troy (not sure if we have) would the odyssey become a true story? Or one based loosely in fact?

Edited to fix grammar

 

[Orogeny]

Show me the rock. Is it a conglomerate rock? If it is then what broke the rock down and what joined it back together again? Is your rock broken with jagged edges or has it been weathered. Did it come out of a river bed? Is it a sand stone, did the waves of a ocean create it? Perhaps it is volcanic. Or is it quartz or marble or granite and a part of the origional crust of the earth.

I'm not going to take a picture of it for you, but I'm more than willing to describe it for you. It is a dull gray micritic lime mudstone. Massive, medium gray weathered, dark gray fresh, no scent, highly effervescent in HCl. Lacks fissility. No skletal fragments or trace fossils evident in hand sample, no skeletal fragments identifiable in thin section. No observed siliciclastic fraction.

Did I leave anything out?

I do not understand why you think geology is irrelevant.

Don't be ridiculous.

Perhaps your rock is limestone and it was a living organism at one time. I talk to people who work in cement for a living and have no idea that lime is an organic material.

Carbonates can be a product of life, but are themselves inorganic.

 

[Jazer]

That's not scientific evidence that the Bible as a whole is true.

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible. You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true. Perhaps you can find translation errors and problems. But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true. Science helps us to have a better understanding of the Bible.

 

[Skaloop]

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible. You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true. Perhaps you can find translation errors and problems. But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true. Science helps us to have a better understanding of the Bible.

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Spiderman comics. You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true. Perhaps you can find continuity errors and scientifically questionable effects of arachnid bites. But you cannot find anything in the Spiderman comics that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true. Science helps us have to have a better understanding of the Spiderman comics.

 

[Insane_Duck]

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible.

Care to give any. Your evidence before was invalid.

You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true.

Philosophic burden of proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please read it this time...

But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true.

-Creation 6,000 years ago
-The flood
-Any miracle claims
-Jesus' life as detailed in the NT

Care to present any evidence that these are true? (FYI, you can't say that I must prove them false. The burden lies with those making the claim, check the link)

 

[Hespera]

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible. You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true. Perhaps you can find translation errors and problems. But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true. Science helps us to have a better understanding of the Bible.

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible

. Sure! Pieces of truth here and there.

You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true

More solid data than many lifetimes' study proving that there was no noahs ark / flood. so the number is actually larger than zero.

But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true.

Tsk tsk. the flood?

Pi equals 3?

 

[Jazer]

It is a dull gray micritic lime mudstone.

So you have a limestone that is made of non organic material and was never a part of the skeletal of any marine organism? So does the dull gray color come from granite? Why is it dull? What has caused it to lose some of it's ability to reflect light?

"Like most other sedimentary rocks, limestone is composed of grains; however, most grains in limestone are skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera. Other carbonate grains comprising limestones are ooids, peloids, intraclasts, and extraclasts. Some limestones do not consist of grains at all, and are formed completely by the chemical precipitation of calcite or aragonite, i.e. travertine."

Of course you think this is all irrelevant. That is fine, you have your opinion. I think it is all very interesting and I like to study and learn more about rocks and geology. The rocks tell a story that I feel is more interesting than some of the nonsense stories they tell on TV or in some books.

 

[Jazer]

More solid data than many lifetimes' study proving that there was no noahs ark / flood. so the number is actually larger than zero.

Like I said many times. The evidence for Noah and the ark is in the DNA. Science gives us evidence for Noah. What they call the founder effect. What people seem to forget is that Noah was a Hebrew and the Bible is a book about the Hebrew people. I do not know why people have so much trouble to understand that. Perhaps because they do not know enough about science and history to be able to properly understand the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Pi equals 3?

No.

Only where one divides the diameter of an object by its circumference, can one come up with 3.

In fact, one can correctly come up with 7, if the circumference is 70 and the diameter is 10.

 

[Jazer]

-Creation 6,000 years ago

Yes, Creation of the Hebrew people. Actually the Hebrews and the Arabs BOTH call upon Abraham as their founding father. Science tells us that the Y chromosome DNA of the Hebrew and the Arab is identical. Of course the Mitchrondal DNA is different because the Arabs are decended from Hagar a Egyptan. What some people would call a slave. I just did a study about the southern states as to what happened to a slave child when the slave owners was the father. I have been told that a lot of the mulatto and quadrums ended up in places like Charleston. Usually the father gave them their freedom, but he was not required by law to set them free. That is a lot of the reason why we had a civil war. A quandrum could be only one forth black and yet still a slave by law if the mother was a slave. To get back to the story of Abraham, the Hebrews were a decendant of Abrahams union with his wife. Now, you have two child, one from the free women and one from the women of bondage. You can take this sunday school story to the adults and there is a lot they can learn from it. What it means to be a child of bondage and what it means to be free.

 

[Inan3]

There is lots of evidence that there is truth in the Bible. You have ZERO (0) evidence that it is not true. Perhaps you can find translation errors and problems. But you can not find anything in the Bible that is not true. Or that you can prove is not true. Science helps us to have a better understanding of the Bible.

Jazer though I'm with you on most points, I have to say that your last statement I find to be totally incorrect. Science cannot give us a better understanding of the Bible. But rather, the Bible gives us a better understanding of science. Sorry to disagree but this is too important to not clarify.

 

[Jazer]

Jazer though I'm with you on most points, I have to say that your last statement I find to be totally incorrect. Science cannot give us a better understanding of the Bible. But rather, the Bible gives us a better understanding of science. Sorry to disagree but this is too important to not clarify.

Actually the Bible is a standard. It is very important that Jesus is the cornerstone. As a carpenter I know that all level and all plumb goes back to the cornerstone. But I do not expect to explain that to anyone here. I just talk about the evidene we have that the Bible is true. Evidence that comes from Science.

 

[Inan3]

. Sure! Pieces of truth here and there.

You and Crazy Duck should talk!

More solid data than many lifetimes' study proving that there was no noahs ark / flood. so the number is actually larger than zero.

Not proven.

Pi equals 3?

The Bible does not teach that Pi is 3. You can not show that to us anywhere.

 

[Skaloop]

Science tells us that the Y chromosome DNA of the Hebrew and the Arab is identical.

Citation needed. Then, once you've provided that info on the identical nature of Hebrew and Arab Y chromosomes, you must demonstrate how that is scientific evidence of the overall veracity of the Biblical Creation story.

 

[Inan3]

Actually the Bible is a standard. It is very important that Jesus is the cornerstone. As a carpenter I know that all level and all plumb goes back to the cornerstone. But I do not expect to explain that to anyone here. I just talk about the evidene we have that the Bible is true. Evidence that comes from Science.

I agree that there is evidence that confirms what the Bible says but even if there was none to be seen, the Bible is still true. We don't need any natural evidence to prove the veracity of the Word of God. I never came to God because of science. I came by faith and if ALL of modern day science was contrary to the word of God, that would not change my faith and belief and confidence that God's word is true!! God's word and NOT science is the PLUMBLINE I use for ALL other data or facts etc. and if they don't line up with the PLUMBLINE than I have to adjust them and not the PLUMBLINE.

 

[Orogeny]

So you have a limestone that is made of non organic material and was never a part of the skeletal of any marine organism?

You chose the least informative part of my post to respond to and ignored all of the details that actually could have told you something about my rock. Awesome.

So does the dull gray color come from granite?

Limestone is one kind of rock. Granite is a different kind of rock. They are not the same. One does not generally contain the other. Limestones are often dull and gray. Granites are often pink and white and black.

Why is it dull?

It is dull because it is a micritic lime mudstone.

What has caused it to lose some of it's ability to reflect light?

It never had an 'ability to reflect light'. Mud is pretty much always dull.

"Like most other sedimentary rocks, limestone is composed of grains; however, most grains in limestone are skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera. Other carbonate grains comprising limestones are ooids, peloids, intraclasts, and extraclasts. Some limestones do not consist of grains at all, and are formed completely by the chemical precipitation of calcite or aragonite, i.e. travertine."

Of course you think this is all irrelevant.

You're right. I do. Because NONE OF THIS PERTAINS TO MY PERMIAN DULL GRAY MICRITIC MUDSTONE! I already told you there are no skeletal fragments, and I definitely would have mentioned the presence of autochems or allochems if there were any.

Also, cite your source.

That is fine, you have your opinion.

I do. My opinion (as a carbonate stratigrapher) is that this rock, in its singularity, is completely and utterly irrelevant.

I think it is all very interesting and I like to study and learn more about rocks and geology. The rocks tell a story that I feel is more interesting than some of the nonsense stories they tell on TV or in some books.

I'm glad you feel this way. There is an unfortunate lack of wonder in our culture.

 

[OllieFranz]

Pi equals 3?

The Bible never claims that pi equals three. What it does claim, in 2 Chronicles 4"2, is that a bronze cistern in Solomon's temple was 10 cubits across and 30 cubits around. If you ask any architect or engineer even today, they will tell you that a calculated value cannot be any more precise than the measured values it was calculated from, no matter how precisely he coefficient can be evaluated. If I measure in whole feet, my calculated values must be rounded to the nearest whole foot, and if I measure in tens of cubits, my calculated values must be rounded to the nearest ten cubits. So, given the description in the Bible, that it was roughly 10 cubits across, a modern engineer or architect would tell that it was roughly 30 cubits around.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Like I said many times. The evidence for Noah and the ark is in the DNA. Science gives us evidence for Noah. What they call the founder effect. What people seem to forget is that Noah was a Hebrew and the Bible is a book about the Hebrew people. I do not know why people have so much trouble to understand that. Perhaps because they do not know enough about science and history to be able to properly understand the Bible.

? The founder effect is about genetic diversity when you split two animals off from a group and found a colony. We don't see that... anywhere...