Noahides - An Authentic Religion?

[chokmah]

Do you eat only dried meat like jerky? Even the meat you buy in the store has some blood in it.

The connection, urnotme, is about a "live" animal.

 

[chokmah]

For anyone who's interested, here is a more detailed concept of the Seven Noachide Laws.

"The Seven Laws of Noah" by Prof. Aaron lichtenstein, Chapter 9

"The preceding chapters have demonstrated that the Seven Laws are more
than seven stark pronouncements. It has been shown that, as envisioned
by the Talmudist, each of these seven laws represents a significant
legislative area and that each area may encompass numerous legal dicta.
This fact has been underscored by the compilation of a list of biblical
law that are operative in Noahism, within the seven laws. The listing
yields a total of sixty-six Imperatives which pertain to the Noachide
system as well. The breakdown of the list, as established in the
foregoing, is as follows:

1. Theft
sixteen

2. Justice
nineteen

3. Homicide
one

4. Illicit Intercourse
ten

5. Limb of a Living Creature
two

6. Idolatry
ten

7. Blasphemy
eight"


The Seven Noachide Categories


1. Murder is forbidden: The life of a human being, formed
in G-d's image, is sacred.


2. Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do with as we please.


3. Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden. Human beings
are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the ultimate goal of life.


4. Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden. This teaches us
to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah
for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The
negative laws were enforced at the Garden of Eden.)


5. Idolatry is forbidden: Man is commanded to believe in the One G-d
alone and worship only G-d.


6. Cursing the name of G-d is forbidden. Besides honoring and
respecting G-d, we learn from this precept that our speech must be
sanctified, as that is the distinctive sign which separated man
from the animals.

7. Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just
social order to enforce the first six laws and enact any other
useful laws or customs.

Specific References

These categories are felt to be implicit in God's commandment to Adam
and Eve in Genesis (Bereshis) 2:16-17.

1. The following verse is a reference to the prohibition against
murder. God explicitly commands Noah (Genesis 9:6), "If one sheds
the blood of the man (HaAdam), by man shall his own blood be
shed."

2. The following is an implicit reference to the prohibition against
theft. It shows that permission is needed to take something that
is not explicitly yours. "You shall not steal; you shall not deal
deceitfully or falsely with one another" (Leviticus 19:11).

3. The below verse refers to sexual misconduct or adultery, as the
prophet Jeremiah (3:1) says, "Saying (laymor), if a man divorces
his wife..."

4. The following verse implies that there are things which may not be
eaten (the limbs of a live animal): "You must not, however, eat
flesh with its life- blood in it." (Genesis 9:4)

5. The following verse is a reference to the prohibition against
idolatry; for it says in Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other
gods before me."

6. The following verse implies the prohibition against blasphemy. As
it says in Leviticus 24:16, "He who blasphemes the name of the
Lord (Hashem) shall die."

7. What follows is a reference to laws of justice for it says in
Genesis 18:19, "For I have known him so he will command (Yitzaveh)
his children after him to keep the way of the Lord and
righteousness and justice."



Seven Turns Into Sixty-Six

From this are derived the following 66 laws:


1. MURDER:

(1) against anyone murdering anyone.



2. THEFT:


(1) against stealing;
(2) against committing robbery
(3) against shifting a landmark;
(4) against cheating;
(5) against repudiating a claim of money owed;
(6) against overcharging;
(7) against coveting;
(8) against desiring;
(9) a laborer shall be allowed to eat of the fruits among which he
works (under certain conditions);
(10) against a laborer eating of such fruit (when certain conditions
are not
met);
(11) against a laborer taking of such fruit home;
(12) against kidnapping;
(13) against the use of false weights and measures;
(14) against the possession of false weights and measures;
(15) that one shall be exact in the use of weights and measures; and
(16) that the robber shall return (or pay for) the stolen object.

3. ILLICIT INTERCOURSE:

(1) against (a man) having union with his mother;

(2) against (a man) having union with his sister;

(3) against (a man) having union with the wife of his father;

(4) against (a man) having union with another man's wife;

(5) against (a man) copulating with a beast;

(6) against a woman copulating with a beast;

(7) against (a man) lying carnally with a male;

(8) against (a man) lying carnally with his father;

(9) against (a man) lying carnally with his father's brother; and

(10) against engaging in erotic conduct that may lead to a prohibited
union.


[Note: There is some dispute as to what the correct wording it for
(8) and (9), as it seems to be covered by (7). If the text is based on
Lev. 18:8, the standard prohibition derived therefrom is covered in (3).
Note that this is in the context of noachide prohibitions.]




4. LIMB OF A LIVING CREATURE:



(1) against eating a limb severed from a living animal, beast, or
fowl; and
(2) against eating the flesh of any animal which was torn by a wild
beast ...
which, in part, prohibits the eating of such flesh as was torn off an
animal while it was still alive.


5. IDOLATRY:


(1) against entertaining the thought that there exists a deity except
the LORD;
(2) against making any graven image (and against having anyone else
make one
for us);
(3) against making idols for use by others;
(4) against making any forbidden statues (even when they are for
ornamental
purposes);
(5) against bowing to any idol (and not to sacrifice nor to pour
libation nor
to burn incense before any idol, even where it is not the customary
manner
of worship to the particular idol);
(6) against worshipping idols in any of their customary manners of
worship;
(7) against causing our children to pass (through the fire) in the
worship of Molech;
(8) against practicing Ov;
(9) against the practice of Yiddoni [Sorceror, Soothsayer, Magician];
and
(10) against turning to idolatry (in word, in thought, in deed, or by
any observance that may draw us to its worship).




6. BLASPHEMY:


(1) to acknowledge the presence of God;
(2) to fear God;
(3) to pray to G-d;
(4) to sanctify God's name (in face of death, where appropriate);
(5) against desecrating God's name (even in face of death, when
appropriate);
(6) to study the Torah;
(7) to honor the scholars, and to revere one's teacher; and
(8) against blaspheming.

7. JUSTICE:

(1) to appoint judges and officers in each and every community;
(2) to treat the litigants equally before the law;
(3) to inquire diligently into the testimony of a witness;
(4) against the wanton miscarriage of justice by the court;
(5) against the judge accepting a bribe or gift from a litigant;
(6) against the judge showing marks of honor to but one litigant;
(7) against the judge acting in fear of a litigant's threats;
(8) against the judge, out of compassion, favoring a poor litigant;
(9) against the judge discriminating against the litigant because he
is a
sinner;
(10) against the judge, out of softness, putting aside the penalty of
a mauler
or killer;
(11) against the judge discriminating against a stranger or an orphan;
(12) against the judge hearing one litigant in the absence of the
other;
(13) against appointing a judge who lacks knowledge of the Law;
(14) against the court killing an innocent man;
(15) against incrimination by circumstantial evidence;
(16) against punishing for a crime committed under duress;
(17) that the court is to administer the death penalty by the sword;
(18) against anyone taking the law into his own hands to kill the
perpetrator
of a capital crime (this point is disagreed upon by different writers:

"The Noahites are not restricted in this way but may judge singly
and at once."); (19) to testify in court; and (20) against testifying
falsely.

 

[chokmah]

c_c:

Here's the email address for subscribing to the Noahide newsletter that I had mentioned earlier: noahides-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

And this is the Yahoo group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/noahides/

 

[MQTA]

For anyone who's interested, here is a more detailed concept of the Seven Noachide Laws.

Not going to comment about why's or why not's... if it's not on the list it doesn't mean I condone it, just that it doesn't need to be there, for whatever reason. Could be just that it's too broad or subjective, not objective.

Interesting list though.


Seven Turns Into Sixty-Six

From this are derived the following 66 laws:


1. MURDER:

(1) against anyone murdering anyone.



2. THEFT:


(1) against stealing;
(2) against committing robbery
(3) against shifting a landmark;

(5) against repudiating a claim of money owed;
(6) against overcharging;

(9) a laborer shall be allowed to eat of the fruits among which he
works (under certain conditions);
(10) against a laborer eating of such fruit (when certain conditions
are not met);
(11) against a laborer taking of such fruit home;
(12) against kidnapping;
(13) against the use of false weights and measures;
(14) against the possession of false weights and measures;
(15) that one shall be exact in the use of weights and measures; and
(16) that the robber shall return (or pay for) the stolen object.

3. ILLICIT INTERCOURSE:


(5) against (a man) copulating with a beast;

(6) against a woman copulating with a beast;




4. LIMB OF A LIVING CREATURE:



(1) against eating a limb severed from a living animal, beast, or
fowl; and
(2) against eating the flesh of any animal which was torn by a wild
beast ...
which, in part, prohibits the eating of such flesh as was torn off an
animal while it was still alive.


5. IDOLATRY:


(1) against entertaining the thought that there exists a deity except
the LORD;
(2) against making any graven image (and against having anyone else
make one for us);
(3) against making idols for use by others;
(4) against making any forbidden statues (even when they are for
ornamental purposes);
(5) against bowing to any idol (and not to sacrifice nor to pour
libation nor to burn incense before any idol, even where it is not the customary manner of worship to the particular idol);
(6) against worshipping idols in any of their customary manners of
worship;
(7) against causing our children to pass (through the fire) in the
worship of Molech;
(8) against practicing Ov;
(9) against the practice of Yiddoni [Sorceror, Soothsayer, Magician];
and
(10) against turning to idolatry (in word, in thought, in deed, or by
any observance that may draw us to its worship).




6. BLASPHEMY:


?

7. JUSTICE:

(1) to appoint judges and officers in each and every community;
(2) to treat the litigants equally before the law;
(3) to inquire diligently into the testimony of a witness;
(4) against the wanton miscarriage of justice by the court;
(5) against the judge accepting a bribe or gift from a litigant;
(6) against the judge showing marks of honor to but one litigant;
(7) against the judge acting in fear of a litigant's threats;
(8) against the judge, out of compassion, favoring a poor litigant;
(9) against the judge discriminating against the litigant because he
is a sinner;
(10) against the judge, out of softness, putting aside the penalty of
a mauler or killer;
(11) against the judge discriminating against a stranger or an orphan;
(12) against the judge hearing one litigant in the absence of the
other;
(13) against appointing a judge who lacks knowledge of the Law;
(14) against the court killing an innocent man;
(15) against incrimination by circumstantial evidence;
(16) against punishing for a crime committed under duress;

 

[chokmah]

MQTA:

Is the revised list what you agree with?

 

[MQTA]

In a way, yes.

 

[chokmah]

bump.

 

[chokmah]

MQTA:

I've got a question for you. Some view the Noachide background as, essentially, Natural Law. What do you think of that consideration?

 

[MQTA]

Then what do people see Natural Law as?

 

[chokmah]

Then what do people see Natural Law as?

I could be completely mistaken, but I would dial it up as a sort of "moral compass".

 

[MQTA]

with 360 degrees?

 

[chokmah]

with 360 degrees?

I love your banter! It's refreshing on a rather morbid Sunday.

 

[MQTA]

we had a good Sunday just got back from TGIF's *burp*