Noahide laws

[yedida]

Sounds like sharia law to me... Maybe this is a prophecy?

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to find that exactly what we're gonna be up against. Not one bit. That's why Obama scares me so.... (But regardless, I believe that whatever happens, it is within Hashem's ulterior plan of final redemption, so I pray for Obama and our country...)

 

[Yahudim]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to find that exactly what we're gonna be up against. Not one bit. That's why Obama scares me so.... (But regardless, I believe that whatever happens, it is within Hashem's ulterior plan of final redemption, so I pray for Obama and our country...)

 

[Lulav]

Of course the Laws are in the Torah. You just have to know where and how to find them.

Of course there is no list of the seven Noachide Laws, but then again, the Torah doesn't list out which laws are for who etc...you have to dig and find and sort.

What I do like is that the laws are now being codified and defined. I used to argue that the 7 Laws were too easy, but I have decided that while they are not as tough as the NT laws they are not too easy either.



Actually, there are records of the Noachide Laws being referred to much much earlier.

Yup, I agree.

This may have already been said, but just to add to this.

All people are descended from Noah, so all people are essentially 'Noachides'. The laws which apply to all people are the same laws that Noah was required to do. So the laws required by Noah and all of his descendents would start with Adam, after the fall, on forward to Noahs lifetime.

So, then what would be the law for a Jew who is considered an idolator because they believe in Yeshua? Beheading for them as well?

I found in the Bible, these beheadings:

Beheading of the heifer in the valley after a man is found slain.(Deut 21:6)
Beheading of Ishboshet- King Saul's son
Beheading of Goliath - By David
John Ben Zachariah - By Herod


And then there's this:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20

 

[ContraMundum]

So, then what would be the law for a Jew who is considered an idolator because they believe in Yeshua? Beheading for them as well?

I found in the Bible, these beheadings:

Beheading of the heifer in the valley after a man is found slain.(Deut 21:6)
Beheading of Ishboshet- King Saul's son
Beheading of Goliath - By David
John Ben Zachariah - By Herod


And then there's this:

Rev 20

You know quite well that the Noachide laws call for civil, not religious or Jewish courts. If it becomes the death penalty for the crime of heresy, so what? It's happened before. Not afraid, are we? Esp. you. You never worry about this persecution stuff. Why now?

 

[ContraMundum]

Nochide and 7 Nochide the laws have absolutely no scriptural foundation.

Yes, they do. They are all there.

Particularly non-scriptural is the punishment for breaking any of these "laws", which is beheading. Nowhere is that form of capital punishment proscribed in either the Tanakh, or B'rit Chadashah.

I don't think the whole "beheading" thing is agreed upon, despite the Googled efforts to find otherwise. Even so, Jews do not get beheaded in the Torah, but it says nothing specific about capital punishment for Gentiles around the world. I think it's up to them to make their own decision. They have gassing, injection, hanging, beheading, shooting and stoning to choose from already in this stupid planet. We are under their civil law in the galus.

Anyway- has it not occurred to you that you already live in a country with Noachide laws in place. They are lived out in various ways already.

Again, I think the problem on this forum is that people really don't know how to interpret spiritual laws except like Christian fundamentalists. Surely we are all past that by now. Isn't that why many are here- to get away from that approach?

 

[visionary]

Still would like to hear the history of the cutting animal parts off of live animals.

 

[Lulav]

You know quite well that the Noachide laws call for civil, not religious or Jewish courts. If it becomes the death penalty for the crime of heresy, so what? It's happened before. Not afraid, are we? Esp. you. You never worry about this persecution stuff. Why now?

Sure, but Qnts said we are basically all Noachides that was why I was asking. So do you think Jews that believe in Jesus will be treated differently, they will not be the ones beheaded for their belief in Messiah and will not reign with him 1000 years? How do you see that passage?

You said this to Vis:

Even so, Jews do not get beheaded in the Torah, but it says nothing specific about capital punishment for Gentiles around the world.

So just because it is not capital punishment in the Torah it can't happen? How do you see Revelation? If the church sees this as they won't be around for all the bad stuff, are we included in that?

I take this as speaking of 'Messianic Jews'

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who do you think these are?

 

[Qnts2]

Sure, but Qnts said we are basically all Noachides that was why I was asking. So do you think Jews that believe in Jesus will be treated differently, they will not be the ones beheaded for their belief in Messiah and will not reign with him 1000 years? How do you see that passage?

You said this to Vis:


So just because it is not capital punishment in the Torah it can't happen? How do you see Revelation? If the church sees this as they won't be around for all the bad stuff, are we included in that?

I take this as speaking of 'Messianic Jews'

Who do you think these are?

When I say we are all Noachides, I mean that we are all descendents of Noah. And are all obligated to the laws set forth as the 7 Noachide laws. With that said, the 7 Noachide laws are repeated in the Mosaic covenant.

As far as being killed for our belief in Yeshua, well, I wouldn't look forward to that but if it does happen, we wouldn't be the first and we won't be the last. Anyone killed for their belief in the Messiah is among the martyrs for the faith as mentioned in scripture, starting with Stephen, and alll of the Apostles except John. It is not something to be sought (as some did in the history of believers), but it is also nothing to fear.

 

[yedida]

When I say we are all Noachides, I mean that we are all descendents of Noah. And are all obligated to the laws set forth as the 7 Noachide laws. With that said, the 7 Noachide laws are repeated in the Mosaic covenant.

As far as being killed for our belief in Yeshua, well, I wouldn't look forward to that but if it does happen, we wouldn't be the first and we won't be the last. Anyone killed for their belief in the Messiah is among the martyrs for the faith as mentioned in scripture, starting with Stephen, and alll of the Apostles except John. It is not something to be sought (as some did in the history of believers), but it is also nothing to fear.

And I think somewhere in Rev. it's mentioned that there's a special reward for the martyrs.

 

[Lulav]

When I say we are all Noachides, I mean that we are all descendents of Noah. And are all obligated to the laws set forth as the 7 Noachide laws. With that said, the 7 Noachide laws are repeated in the Mosaic covenant.

As far as being killed for our belief in Yeshua, well, I wouldn't look forward to that but if it does happen, we wouldn't be the first and we won't be the last. Anyone killed for their belief in the Messiah is among the martyrs for the faith as mentioned in scripture, starting with Stephen, and alll of the Apostles except John. It is not something to be sought (as some did in the history of believers), but it is also nothing to fear.

Ok, but as CM said, the Jewish courts are not like the Gentile ones. There is no beheading for Jews in Torah, but there could be for Gentiles.

And speaking of the place I quoted from,

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

if we are included in that group we would be the last, for after that it says that the Adversary is locked away for 1000 years and after that the judgement. There will be no more persecution.

 

[ContraMundum]

So just because it is not capital punishment in the Torah it can't happen? How do you see Revelation? If the church sees this as they won't be around for all the bad stuff, are we included in that?

I take this as speaking of 'Messianic Jews'

Who do you think these are?

I think those verses apply to all Christians, and I'm not really that much of a futurist either.

I understand and note your point though.

 

[Marie Lynn]

But overall, I am sometimes rather surprised that people fight against the Noachide laws as if they are wrong and not scriptural. Who would try to argue that theft was ok or the sexual immorality is ok. Or that God permitted these things during Noah's time. They really are all there but not in a simple list like the 10 commandments.

1. Prohibition of Idolatry
2. Prohibition of Murder
3. Prohibition of Theft
4. Prohibition of Sexual immorality
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy
6. Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
7. Establishment of courts of law

With atheism becoming an increasingly growing phenomenon not only within the U.S. but the UK, many of us would take exception to a commandment prohibiting blasephemy or the taking of the Lords name in vain. This is not only undemocratic but runs contrary to free speech, more along the line of prohibiting criticism of a President or any other public official.

The same with idolatry, and the establishing of one God, monotheism, or one supreme God, henotheism, also runs contrary to the American constitutional guarantees of freedom of conscious and against an establishment of religion. People are free to worship many gods, one, or none at all.

Adultery, if that is what is implied within sexual immorality is a broken promise between consenting adults, and has nothing to do with a government. It can and often does result in a broken relationship, affecting the children if the marriage breaks up as a result of it, but it hardly merits as that of a harmful felony.

Prohibitions against murder and theft existed millennia before the time of Noah, or even the Israelite story of Moses coming down from mount Sinai, relative to humanity, these are obviously wrong, universally.

 

[stone]

With atheism becoming an increasingly growing phenomenon not only within the U.S. but the UK, many of us would take exception to a commandment prohibiting blasephemy or the taking of the Lords name in vain. This is not only undemocratic but runs contrary to free speech, more along the line of prohibiting criticism of a President or any other public official.

The same with idolatry, and the establishing of one God, monotheism, or one supreme God, henotheism, also runs contrary to the American constitutional guarantees of freedom of conscious and against an establishment of religion. People are free to worship many gods, one, or none at all.

Adultery, if that is what is implied within sexual immorality is a broken promise between consenting adults, and has nothing to do with a government. It can and often does result in a broken relationship, affecting the children if the marriage breaks up as a result of it, but it hardly merits as that of a harmful felony.

Prohibitions against murder and theft existed millennia before the time of Noah, or even the Israelite story of Moses coming down from mount Sinai, relative to humanity, these are obviously wrong, universally.

I'd say there are obvious differences between a theocracy and a democracy. I think history proves that over time, our democracy will fail. Our theocracy in ancient times failed only because the leaders of the people failed and the people are punished for what the leaders did.

 

[visionary]

With atheism becoming an increasingly growing phenomenon not only within the U.S. but the UK, many of us would take exception to a commandment prohibiting blasephemy or the taking of the Lords name in vain. This is not only undemocratic but runs contrary to free speech, more along the line of prohibiting criticism of a President or any other public official.

The same with idolatry, and the establishing of one God, monotheism, or one supreme God, henotheism, also runs contrary to the American constitutional guarantees of freedom of conscious and against an establishment of religion. People are free to worship many gods, one, or none at all.

Adultery, if that is what is implied within sexual immorality is a broken promise between consenting adults, and has nothing to do with a government. It can and often does result in a broken relationship, affecting the children if the marriage breaks up as a result of it, but it hardly merits as that of a harmful felony.

Prohibitions against murder and theft existed millennia before the time of Noah, or even the Israelite story of Moses coming down from mount Sinai, relative to humanity, these are obviously wrong, universally.

It also doesn't benefit anyone but the Jew who is exempt from its laws.