No such thing as homosexual or heterosexual.

[CriticalMassKitten]

At first I thought, hey, maybe this thread would say there's just love, and not to think about orientation... then I saw who it was by. I don't necesarilly want to get into a debate about words and the bible and the definitions, because frankly, like Jamie said, it's still the same thing. Saying sexuality doesn't fit into the bible, ok, I could see that, yet it seems to say otherwise in some passages that people think mention homosexuality. Some even say it says the word homosexual, so therefore the point seems kinda moot to me.

 

[onemessiah]

Sorry but thats not the Biblical definition, God created male and female to be united, how would you fit homosexual to that? You cant.
The only places I can recall at the moment which would be sexual attraction are ' looking lustfully at another woman' , heterosexual, (Matthew 5) and men lusting after men instead of women, homosexual, (Romans 1) both sin, or men burning with desire who should marry, heterosexual (1 Cor 7)

So Tenebrae,
Where in the Bible is the definition of gay?

How about Leviticus 20:13.

 

[onemessiah]

Dear Halohope.
No mention of paedophile in the Bible either. What is the relevance of your point? Did God create computers or did humans? Did God create paedophiles or are paedophiles just humans who have sexual desires to children. Did God create me an adulterer or to live for His purposes?

Did god promote incest by creating only Adam and Eve instead of a larger pool of original humans?

 

[Brieuse]

No such thing as homosexual or heterosexual.

The concepts of heterosexual and homosexual are human concepts and not God's concepts.

The Biblial testimony is that God created male and female for the reason man to be united with woman. Genesis 2. God's purpose is for faithful union of man and woman ie Mark 10. Eph 5 and Matt 19. "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'

How does the concept of heterosexual and homosexual fit with God's creation? the answer is not very well. God's prupose for man and woman to be united. heterosexual and homosexual are peoples sexual orientations/desires, same-sex or opposite sex. So something of the 'heterosexual' concept is according to God's purposes, where a man is united with his wife, but some isnt and none of the homosexual concept is compatible.
Therefore when people look at people or God's purposes from a heterosexual or homosexual concept they are already obscured from the reality of God's purposes.

The Bible deals with the countenance of man/woman union and the error of same-sex union, how one applies the modern concepts of heterosexual and homosexual to that is not straightforward.
So to argue in terms of heterosexual, homosexual concepts is most often confusing what the Bible actually says. It doesnt help when the Bible translations describe 'homosexual offenders' and not 'heterosexual offenders'.

But crucially another comment often made is that the Bible doesnt say anything about homosexual. The Bible doesnt say anything about the concept of homosexual, and that is because heterosexual and homosexual are not a Godly concepts.

Interesting how scripture can be used to attempt to disprove something we all know exists.

 

[lincolngreen50]

No such thing as homosexual or heterosexual.

The concepts of heterosexual and homosexual are human concepts and not God's concepts.

The Biblial testimony is that God created male and female for the reason man to be united with woman. Genesis 2. God's purpose is for faithful union of man and woman ie Mark 10. Eph 5 and Matt 19. "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'

How does the concept of heterosexual and homosexual fit with God's creation? the answer is not very well. God's prupose for man and woman to be united. heterosexual and homosexual are peoples sexual orientations/desires, same-sex or opposite sex. So something of the 'heterosexual' concept is according to God's purposes, where a man is united with his wife, but some isnt and none of the homosexual concept is compatible.
Therefore when people look at people or God's purposes from a heterosexual or homosexual concept they are already obscured from the reality of God's purposes.

The Bible deals with the countenance of man/woman union and the error of same-sex union, how one applies the modern concepts of heterosexual and homosexual to that is not straightforward.
So to argue in terms of heterosexual, homosexual concepts is most often confusing what the Bible actually says. It doesnt help when the Bible translations describe 'homosexual offenders' and not 'heterosexual offenders'.

But crucially another comment often made is that the Bible doesnt say anything about homosexual. The Bible doesnt say anything about the concept of homosexual, and that is because heterosexual and homosexual are not a Godly concepts.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Interesting how scripture can be used to attempt to disprove something we all know exists.

It exists as a desire only,like to desire to steal,to murder,to lie, to commit adultery,to covert ones neighbour.
A person is free to use his or hers own concience,God gave that choice but for sin without repentence there is seperation from God.

 

[tulc]

uhmmm even though I'm now not a heterosexual is it ok that I still think Mrs.tulc is very sexy?
tulc(kind of liked being a heterosexual)

 

[Miracle Storm]

There is neither heterosexual nor homosexual...

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[onemessiah]

There is neither heterosexual nor homosexual...

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Tell that to the homosexuals who get beat up for being gay.

 

[onemessiah]

uhmmm even though I'm now not a heterosexual is it ok that I still think Mrs.tulc is very sexy?
tulc(kind of liked being a heterosexual)

Sure, nothing wrong with being bi

 

[onemessiah]

It exists as a desire only,like to desire to steal,to murder,to lie, to commit adultery,to covert ones neighbour.
A person is free to use his or hers own concience,God gave that choice but for sin without repentence there is seperation from God.

So then the same can be said of heteros. It only exists as a desire. Not of something deeper and much more complex (such as one's SEXUALITY).
Good thing we have you to turn to for answers. I always thought those silly psychologists were full of it!

 

[Miracle Storm]

Tell that to the homosexuals who get beat up for being gay.

That was the point I was making posting that Scripture.

Do you believe it is okay for a person to be beat up because they are gay?

I think not. I feel people are people; they should not be catagories.

 

[HaloHope]

That'd be an interesting discussion. I can't see it myself but it takes all kinds. That'd be a hard sell but you're not mean about it. Even to those of us who believe no such reconciliation is needed.

Yeh I think this would be an interesting discussion too.

While I may not agree with Tenebrae and Criada's stance on their own sexuality, I think both of you have put your point across in a loving caring manner and can certainly respect your decisions and opinions on being gay and Christian.

While I see same-sex relationships as infinately compatible with Christianity (to the extent that I firmly believe God would be incredibly cruel to condemn people to forced celibacy because of their sexuality) I think it would make for an interesting debate assuming everyone kept their cool.

 

[lincolngreen50]

There is neither heterosexual nor homosexual...

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

God designed man and woman. God designs man`s desires as in (man and woman)

 

[lincolngreen50]

Yeh I think this would be an interesting discussion too.

While I may not agree with Tenebrae and Criada's stance on their own sexuality, I think both of you have put your point across in a loving caring manner and can certainly respect your decisions and opinions on being gay and Christian.

While I see same-sex relationships as infinately compatible with Christianity (to the extent that I firmly believe God would be incredibly cruel to condemn people to forced celibacy because of their sexuality) I think it would make for an interesting debate assuming everyone kept their cool.

All those believe in Gods Word care about Gods children as He does.
He loves all his creation,We are all in sin,me you and everybody else.
We disagree with our Christian Philosophy and that is it.
Only those in sin ,you,me or anyone else can be convicted of that sin but each individual has to come to that themselves.
I pray that all those including myself,you and everybody else will be saved and be given everlasting life.
I pray that we will all be convicted by the sin we are in for whatever reason.
God is merciful,God is kind but He is prepared to give us all hard love and will convict us of our sin if we truly seek Him.
If I were personally even unsure whether I was sinning or not I would tryto turn away from it because my reward would be great in Heaven
By the way God will not force any Believer to do anything that does not convict them in their hearts.

 

[HaloHope]

All those believe in Gods Word care about Gods children as He does.
He loves all his creation,We are all in sin,me you and everybody else.
We disagree with our Christian Philosophy and that is it.
Only those in sin ,you,me or anyone else can be convicted of that sin but each individual has to come to that themselves.
I pray that all those including myself,you and everybody else will be saved and be given everlasting life.
I pray that we will all be convicted by the sin we are in for whatever reason.
God is merciful,God is kind but He is prepared to give us all hard love and will convict us of our sin if we truly seek Him.

Thank you very much for your prayer.

If I were personally even unsure whether I was sinning or not I would tryto turn away from it because my reward would be great in Heaven
By the way God will not force any Believer to do anything that does not convict them in their hearts.

Yes, I should have phrased myself better, I do realize God isnt "forcing" anyone to do anything but if for example the "deal" was if your homosexual, you must starve yourself of all physical intimacy and love with a person you care greatly for or go to hell then I would consider God highly unjust. As ive said before I reach the conclusion homosexuality is NOT a sin based largely on the fact that I know God is loving and is just, because it would only be a sin (at least from my own perspective) if he wasnt just or loving.

I just simply can't fathom under any circumstances why he would create people to feel bad about an aspect of themselves that is innate, why he would create people with the "godly purpose" of being deprived of the loving relationships hetrosexuals can have. If that was the case, it would be pretty much a tyrannical slap in the face to those he has created.

But fortunately, as I have said before:- God is loving and just and as a result homosexual relationships do not equate to sin. Hallelujah!

 

[Texas Lynn]

God designed man and woman God designs man desires

It would therefore follow that variances in persons' love maps (sexual orientation) is according to divine design. However, women's desires are not to be taken lightly. The inaccurate concept women lack sexual desire denigrates them and is used to oppress them.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Thank you very much for your prayer.





Yes, I should have phrased myself better, I do realize God isnt "forcing" anyone to do anything but if for example the "deal" was if your homosexual, you must starve yourself of all physical intimacy and love with a person you care greatly for or go to hell then I would consider God highly unjust. As ive said before I reach the conclusion homosexuality is NOT a sin based largely on the fact that I know God is loving and is just, because it would only be a sin (at least from my own perspective) if he wasnt just or loving.

I just simply can't fathom under any circumstances why he would create people to feel bad about an aspect of themselves that is innate, why he would create people with the "godly purpose" of being deprived of the loving relationships hetrosexuals can have. If that was the case, it would be pretty much a tyrannical slap in the face to those he has created.

But fortunately, as I have said before:- God is loving and just and as a result homosexual relationships do not equate to sin. Hallelujah!

Great post. The idea of oppression of LGBTs and the moral view LGBTs need to be celibate is not able to be reconciled with the concept of a loving God. A god who would do such an evil thing would be no god at all but the most horrible monster imaginable, a psychopathic child playing with us like dollies in a sandbox. I do not accept that such an evil god exists.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Thank you very much for your prayer.





yes, I should have phrased myself better, I do realize God isnt "forcing" anyone to do anything but if for example the "deal" was if your homosexual, you must starve yourself of all physical intimacy and love with a person you care greatly for or go to hell then I would consider God highly unjust. As ive said before I reach the conclusion homosexuality is NOT a sin based largely on the fact that I know God is loving and is just, because it would only be a sin (at least from my own perspective) if he wasnt just or loving.

I just simply can't fathom under any circumstances why he would create people to feel bad about an aspect of themselves that is innate, why he would create people with the "godly purpose" of being deprived of the loving relationships hetrosexuals can have. If that was the case, it would be pretty much a tyrannical slap in the face to those he has created.

But fortunately, as I have said before:- God is loving and just and as a result homosexual relationships do not equate to sin. Hallelujah!

Dear HaloHope,Thank you for your honesty and even though we may not agree with our Philosophy we can have a conversation with mutual respect
Lincoln

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Onemessiah,

How about Leviticus 20:13.

well gay means having a same-sex attraction/orientation, and many pro same-sex posters here are at great pains to point out the Lev 18 and 20 verses don’t condemn gay as such, just same-sex practice.
So according to your side of the debate no. One minute your side of the debate claims homosexuality is just the orientation, the next minute the opposite, whatever is needed to justify your position.

No mention of paedophile in the Bible either. What is the relevance of your point? Did God create computers or did humans? Did God create paedophiles or are paedophiles just humans who have sexual desires to children. Did God create me an adulterer or to live for His purposes?

Did god promote incest by creating only Adam and Eve instead of a larger pool of original humans?

You tell me, I was just saying there is no mention of paedophilia either, but so what that doesn’t make it right either. Paedophiles are no different from anyone else God created, their sexual actions and desires are wrong, just as homosexual and adulterous desires are.

Tell that to the homosexuals who get beat up for being gay.

Ok will do. In Christ there is no beating up of people either. But Miracle Storm has put the same case as I am saying. In Christ there is no distinction. Gal 3 and Col 3. There is no distinction in what God has created, male and female, and no disctintion in what He hasnt created, homosexual and heterosexual.