No new Mosques?

[WoodrowX2]

Christians don't want to convert the world to Christianity. Christians want everyone to hear the gospel, that's all. We are heralds, not conquerors.

While Christianity may not desire the whole world to be Christian, History has been filled with Christians that believed in "Manifest Destiny" or some version of it.

Perhaps many do see themselves as simply spreading the word, but they seem to be under the impression that the word has not been spread if the Nation is not predominately Christian. If if a Nation is predominately Christian, the Missionaries still continue coming until it is predominately their flavor of Christianity, Catholic Nations in South America are flooded with Fundamentalist Missionaries spreading the Gospel to them.

There have probably been more Bibles distributed in the Mideastern nations than there are people there. But the Missionaries do not cease proselytizing there.

I can not think of any Christian denomination that does not currently have Missionaries in Saudi, Iran and Iraq..

I assume you belong to a Church. You probably personally know people that have been or are currently Missionaries in an Islamic Nation. In your city alone how many churches do you know that have or support Missionaries in Islamic Nations.

When will Missionaries stop going into non-Christian lands? Probably not until every nation is 100% Christian.

Maybe Christianity only wants the Gospel spread, but Missionaries will not stop until the world is 100% Christian.

 

[Crypto]

While Christianity may not desire the whole world to be Christian, History has been filled with Christians that believed in "Manifest Destiny" or some version of it.

Perhaps many do see themselves as simply spreading the word, but they seem to be under the impression that the word has not been spread if the Nation is not predominately Christian. If if a Nation is predominately Christian, the Missionaries still continue coming until it is predominately their flavor of Christianity, Catholic Nations in South America are flooded with Fundamentalist Missionaries spreading the Gospel to them.

There have probably been more Bibles distributed in the Mideastern nations than there are people there. But the Missionaries do not cease proselytizing there.

I can not think of any Christian denomination that does not currently have Missionaries in Saudi, Iran and Iraq..

I assume you belong to a Church. You probably personally know people that have been or are currently Missionaries in an Islamic Nation. In your city alone how many churches do you know that have or support Missionaries in Islamic Nations.

When will Missionaries stop going into non-Christian lands? Probably not until every nation is 100% Christian.

Maybe Christianity only wants the Gospel spread, but Missionaries will not stop until the world is 100% Christian.

So, what's the problem with that? With the missionaries spreading the word of God, I mean?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Some Islamic majority countries have outlawed proselytism (probably to diffuse sectarian tensions) and a few smaller Islamic communities like the Nizari Ismaili have pretty much abandoned it but I don't think it's accurate to say that Islam (in general) forbids it unless you are using an uncommonly restricted definition of the term. In fact gaining converts (or reverts if you prefer) is often looked on as a positive thing.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

So, what's the problem with that? With the missionaries spreading the word of God, I mean?

Didn't you just say that Christians don't want to do that and strongly imply that Muslims do?

 

[WoodrowX2]

I was referring myself to Islam in general, not to you in particular. Don't worry, I will never become a Muslim. By the way, the objective of Islam is not to gain converts, but to gain control of the society as a whole and to impose Sharia law on everyone. Normally, gaining converts is conducive to this end, but it is not an end in itself. Finally, since you claim to believe that Islam is the only way to God, I must conclude that you want me to end up in hell. LOL. That goes to show how hateful your religion is. I am Christian and although I disagree with you I wish you the very best. I hope you get to know Christ and to live with him for all eternity in heaven. I love you because Christ has died for you, as well as for me. God bless you, man.

One problem or misunderstanding I see is many non-Muslims think of Islam as a Religious denomination. Islam is simply the act of submitting to God(swt)

In the past there have been Jews, Sabeeans and Christians that submitted to God(swt) and were true Muslims.

Today there may be some Jews, and Sabeeans that are Muslim as they are submitting to the one God the best they know how. I doubt if a person can follow today's Christianity and perform Islam (submit to God).

I personally believe that once a person knows of the 5 Pillars the only way they can submit is by doing their best to follow the 5 pillars.

As to if a person who has not heard of the 5 pillars can do Islam (Submit to God) that I leave up to the individual and God, as I do not know.

I have no desire or need to convert anyone to Islam. I only desire that all people make their choices of their own free will. Each person and each person alone will receive the results of their choices.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Some Islamic majority countries have outlawed proselytism (probably to diffuse sectarian tensions) and a few smaller Islamic communities like the Nizari Ismaili have pretty much abandoned it but I don't think it's accurate to say that Islam (in general) forbids it unless you are using an uncommonly restricted definition of the term. In fact gaining converts (or reverts if you prefer) is often looked on as a positive thing.

Yes it is considered a good thing to help people accept Islam. but I see limitations in how we are to do such. One being we have to be certain the person does so of their own choice and desire.

Actually that is almost self explanatory as the only way a person can be Muslim is to say the Shahadah with sincerity and belief.

Just my views but I see us as being concerned of others and limit our proselytizing by setting an example, not hide the fact we are Muslim and be available to answer questions to the best of our ability. I think we should avoid speaking of Islam to those who have expressed a desire not to hear about it.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

Stop lying.

Christians Are Still Brutally Persecuted in Somalia, by Muslims - YouTube

Lying about what? If you're going to accuse me of lying about something, present something to counter argue what I stated. I was talking about Saudi Arabia and not Somalia. So instead of flaming me and trying to stomp on my integrity, how about acting like a man and not a boy when doing it.

 

[Crypto]

Didn't you just say that Christians don't want to do that and strongly imply that Muslims do?

No. I said that Christians don't want to convert the whole world. However, Christians want everyone to hear the word of God. These are two different things.

 

[Crypto]

Lying about what? If you're going to accuse me of lying about something, present something to counter argue what I stated. I was talking about Saudi Arabia and not Somalia. So instead of flaming me and trying to stomp on my integrity, how about acting like a man and not a boy when doing it.

Then answer the question: do you denounce the fact that in Saudi Arabia Christians are not allowed to preach, to build churches, and to distribute Bibles? Say yes or no.

 

[Crypto]

One problem or misunderstanding I see is many non-Muslims think of Islam as a Religious denomination. Islam is simply the act of submitting to God(swt)

In the past there have been Jews, Sabeeans and Christians that submitted to God(swt) and were true Muslims.

Today there may be some Jews, and Sabeeans that are Muslim as they are submitting to the one God the best they know how. I doubt if a person can follow today's Christianity and perform Islam (submit to God).

I personally believe that once a person knows of the 5 Pillars the only way they can submit is by doing their best to follow the 5 pillars.

As to if a person who has not heard of the 5 pillars can do Islam (Submit to God) that I leave up to the individual and God, as I do not know.

I have no desire or need to convert anyone to Islam. I only desire that all people make their choices of their own free will. Each person and each person alone will receive the results of their choices.

Islam is a very deceitful religion. On the one hand, it states that no one should be forced to become a Muslim. On the other hand, it slays polytheists, and it restricts the civil and religious rights of Christians and Jews. The fierce persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim countries is an undeniable fact. Furthermore, you don't impose your religion on others, but you impose your ridiculous laws on everyone.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Islam is a very deceitful religion. On the one hand, it states that no one should be forced to become a Muslim. On the other hand, it slays polytheists, and it restricts the civil and religious rights of Christians and Jews. The fierce persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim countries is an undeniable fact. Furthermore, you don't impose your religion on others, but you impose your ridiculous laws on everyone.

When you live in a nation you abide by the laws of the nation.

The law does impose on me I have to abide by the same laws the Christians have to abide by. All people of all faiths have to follow the same laws in the US.

There is no big deal over it. If I can't live by the laws of a nation I can leave. Same of any Nation if I can not live by the laws of a Nation I get my self out ASAP.

I could not live under the property laws in
Saudi as I desire to own my own land. I am not a person suited for living iin a Monarchy. I like the ability to own my own house and property and not have to rent or lease from the Royal family.

Outside of Saudi and Iran what Nation's laws do you consider unfair to non-Muslims?

 

[Crypto]

When you live in a nation you abide by the laws of the nation.

That's funny coming from a Muslim. You never abide by the laws of a non-Islamic state.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Then answer the question: do you denounce the fact that in Saudi Arabia Christians are not allowed to preach, to build churches, and to distribute Bibles? Say yes or no.

It is true Christians can not build churches, distribute bibles. or Preach in Saudi.

It is also true there is no public land in Saudi, the entire country belongs to the al-Saud family. You are on privately owned land when in Saudi.

Does a person have the right to prohibit what he wants to prohibit on his own property?

Would you let me build a Mosque in the backyard you own? Do you believe you have the right to not let me turn your garage into an Islamic School or a Mosque? Do you have the right to stop me from distributing Qur'ans to your family and guests in your house or yard. ?

 

[Crypto]

It is true Christians can not build churches, distribute bibles. or Preach in Saudi.

It is also true there is no public land in Saudi, the entire country belongs to the al-Saud family. You are on privately owned land when in Saudi.

Does a person have the right to prohibit what he wants to prohibit on his own property?

Would you let me build a Mosque in the backyard you own? Do you believe you have the right to not let me turn your garage into an Islamic School or a Mosque? Do you have the right to stop me from distributing Qur'ans to your family and guests in your house or yard. ?

The prohibition to preach, build churches, and distribute Bibles is not a caprice of the Saudi royalty, but a principle of Sharia law. That's why your argument is invalid.

 

[WoodrowX2]

That's funny coming from a Muslim. You never abide by the laws of a non-Islamic state.

And what laws have I broken? If you are speaking as muslims in General there are 2,000,000 Muslims in the USA How many of them are in jail.

The NOI which have a prison ministry and get called Muslims are not Muslims. They are an American Religion founded by Elijah Poole and not the Religion revealed to the Prophet Muhammad(saws).

Prophet Muhammad(saws) from Mecca and the Prophet Elijah Mohammad (Elijah Poole) from Chicago are 2 different people.

I have a funny feeling that if I did not abide by federal, local and state laws applicable to North Dakota, my tail would soon be in the local Cross-bar Hotel.

While when I am on the Rez most federal and state laws do not apply, but even there I have to abide by the laws of the Tribal Council.

 

[WoodrowX2]

The prohibition to preach, build churches, and distribute Bibles is not a caprice of the Saudi royalty, but a principle of Sharia law. That's why your argument is invalid.

That explains why in the past there were Churches in virtually every Islamic Nation.

Show me in writing the Sharia law that prohibits Churches, Bibles and Christian Preaching? I am speaking Sharia, not the laws of any Nation. But actual Sharia from Islamic Jurisprudence.

You can begin with a general introduction to Hanafi

HERE

 

[smaneck]

yes, admitted or not, all religions share the same desire.

the different is only, Christianity didn't commanded to kill apostasy

Not so. Jesus may not have issued such a command but the Church most certainly did! And Christianity is the Church.

 

[smaneck]

Under Shariah Murder is not a Hadd crime. It is a responsibility of Civil law.

It is a Qissas crime, Woodrow which is why this guy was able to get off. We've talked about this before. Murder could be forgiven by the family of the victim if blood money was paid. Otherwise, it was a capital offense. This was to prevent revenge warfare among tribes. Unfortunately when the family of the victim and the perpetrator are the same, it makes obtaining justice very difficult.

If that is true. I have sympathy for you and pray that you will find Jesus(as).

I think the real Jesus is saddened by all of this. He is not to be found in the pages of a book, any book. Books can only tell us *about* Jesus.

 

[smaneck]

Yes it is considered a good thing to help people accept Islam. but I see limitations in how we are to do such. One being we have to be certain the person does so of their own choice and desire.

When Baha'is say we don't believe in proselytizing that what we mean. But Muslims certainly believe in issuing the 'call' just as Baha'is believe in 'teaching.'

 

[smaneck]

Islam is a very deceitful religion. On the one hand, it states that no one should be forced to become a Muslim. On the other hand, it slays polytheists, and it restricts the civil and religious rights of Christians and Jews.

If Islam really slayed all the polytheists then why is India still predominantly Hindu after some eight centuries of Muslim rule?

Furthermore, you don't impose your religion on others, but you impose your ridiculous laws on everyone.

Actually, no. Traditionally shariah laws have not been binding on non-Muslims in an Islamic state. Christians and Jews, for instance, were allowed to produce and alcohol in both the Safavid and Ottoman Empires. Not only were Christians allowed to eat pork but they were assumed not to be Christian if they didn't! Religious minorities were expected to abide by the laws of their own religion and they could be punished if they failed to do so. Even in modern Egypt most of the Coptics who convert to Islam do so because they want a divorce. Egyptian law doesn't allow Christians to divorce because it is against their religion.