No New Commandment

HARK! · Jul 1, 2020

fhansen said:
Yes, so obviously it's possible for a believer, having "tasted of the heavenly gift", to fall back away. We must strive, persevere; we must remain in Him, living by the Spirit. These things are optional at the end of the day

Optional in what sense? Certainly not in a pattern for salvation.

fhansen said:
Grace empowers us; that is life in the Spirit, but we can still resist and reject that life, that grace.

Grace is forgiveness of our lives before we were reborn.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

HARK! · Jul 1, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
First of all "none of us" refers to all who are participating in the discussion.
If you want Moses views, you can read what he wrote. Abraham is said to have fulfilled the Law 430 years before it was written, while he wrote nothing, his life speaks. I have not read the book of Enoch, but I am sure you could enlighten on how he reached the same conclusions as Paul in comprehending Messiah.

I'm not talking about the Book of Enoch. I'm talking about Genesis.

(CLV) Gn 5:24
while Enoch was walking with the One, Elohim. Then he was not found, for Elohim took him away.

Minister Monardo · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
Exactly. I don't understand how so many get these two confused. It must be indoctrination.

Maybe your own posts have lacked this clarity to enlighten others on the forum.
Yeshua said that if you use His words, you will silence opposition. He told me what scriptures
to post, prayerfully, many will see past their own indoctrination....
Everyone must receive correction right?

Minister Monardo · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
I'm not talking about the Book of Enoch. I'm talking about Genesis.

(CLV) Gn 5:24
while Enoch was walking with the One, Elohim. Then he was not found, for Elohim took him away.

How does that clarify what he knew about the New Covenant and fulfillment of the Law?
That was the question you proposed. Insufficient information to draw conclusions, and as I already pointed out, not applicable to me saying that what WE know is because of the Incarnation.

fhansen · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
Optional in what sense? Certainly not in a pattern for salvation.

They're optional in that they aren't forced upon us; we can opt out of striving, persevering, etc. Salvation is only a sure thing in the absolute sense at the end, when the Just Judge deems us saved.

HARK! said:
Grace is forgiveness of our lives before we were reborn.

It's more than forgiveness; it's new life, the life of God in us. We're washed, cleansed, made new creations. Then we're expected to keep walking like it-and grow in it.

Minister Monardo · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
With all my heart, all my mind, and all of utterly me.

Matthew 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Freely you have received, freely give. [To others, and He has promised that He will
receive it to Himself.]

Minister Monardo · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
In my understanding grace isn't an ongoing endeavor; but that's a topic for another thread.

Maybe start here?
2 Peter 3:18. but grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

I only responded to make your understanding more perfect. Grace IS an ongoing endeavor.
I would never have believed we would need an OP on grace. I stand corrected.

Carl Emerson · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
The fact that Yahshua must be known, does not negate our obligations to YHWH's word.

Yahshua is YHWH's word.

Yes but the living Word is Jesus.

The problem seems to be that you are presenting OT to understand the NT.

Have you heard the saying "the Old Testament concealed is the New Testament revealed..."

Your approach seems to be the reverse - presenting the Old to understand the New.

This is folly - The mysteries - not understood in the Old are freely proclaimed in the New - I suggest you start there.

klutedavid · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
In my understanding grace isn't an ongoing endeavor; but that's a topic for another thread.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

If you ignore the context of the letter to the Hebrews, you will falsely interpret those verses from Hebrews 10.

klutedavid · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
The fact that Yahshua must be known, does not negate our obligations to YHWH's word.

Yahshua is YHWH's word.

Anyone who believes they can obey the letter of the law is deceived. The law declares you are sinful and evil, that is the purpose of the law. The law does not offer any deliverance from sin, just more condemnation.

The law came with profound judgement upon Israel and not even Moses Himself, survived that onslaught.

Obedience to the law generates finger pointing, self righteous folk. Obedience to the letter of the law is, nothing more than, a work of the flesh.

sparow · Jul 1, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.

G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

A number of commandments called new in the NT are also found in the OT; are there any there any commandments in the NT that are not found in the old?

1 John 2:7-8 (NKJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

2 John 1:4-5 (NKJV)
4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father.
5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another.

Carl Emerson · Jul 2, 2020

sparow said:
A number of commandments called new in the NT are also found in the OT; are there any there any commandments in the NT that are not found in the old?

1 John 2:7-8 (NKJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

2 John 1:4-5 (NKJV)

4 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father.
5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another.

Plenty...

Matt 5:

21You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be subject to the fire of hell.

There are many more - just search on the words "But I tell you..."

Strong in Him · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's take a look at the passage in question.

(CLV) Mt 5:43
"You hear that it was declared, `You shall be loving your associate' and you shall be hating your enemy.

(CLV) Mt 5:44
Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you,

Where in the TaNaK can you find a command to hate your enemy?

i) That isn't the passage in question; I was referring to John 13:34.
ii) You, yourself, have quoted a verse which says "you have heard it declared, 'you shall be hating your enemies'.
iii) Have you read the OT? The Israelites were constantly asking to God intervene and fight their enemies. Gideon killed the Midianites, Samson killed Philistines, David killed Goliath, Elijah had all 450 prophets of Baal killed after he won the victory on Mt Carmel.
iv) In the Psalms David often asks that those who oppose him, and God, shall be put to shame or destroyed.

What did Jesus say when the Romans were smashing nails into his hands and people were mocking? "Father, forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."

HARK! said:
No new commandment!

No one in the OT loved as Jesus loved - because Jesus had not yet been born, lived, taught and died. Even folk in Jesus' time were unable to love as he loved. When Peter asked Jesus if he should forgive 7 times, he thought he was being generous; the standard belief/teaching was to forgive someone 3 times. Jesus said to Peter, "no, not 7 but 70x7" - in other words, countless times. Jesus taught Samaritans and told parables where Samaritans were the good guys - yet Jews and Samaritans were enemies.

Scott Husted · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.

G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

What is new is more defined as our perception of the Law. You see the old in the words "you do not know what spirit you are of."

Minister Monardo · Jul 2, 2020

fhansen said:
They're optional in that they aren't forced upon us; we can opt out of striving, persevering, etc. Salvation is only a sure thing in the absolute sense at the end, when the Just Judge deems us saved.

It's more than forgiveness; it's new life, the life of God in us. We're washed, cleansed, made new creations. Then we're expected to keep walking like it-and grow in it.

So much more than forgiveness.
Acts 4:33. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus.
And great grace was upon them all.

Jesus is YHWH · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
How so?

The NT love required for believers is a sacrificial and selfless love towards our neighbor and enemies. Its a Divine Love that comes from Gods spirit dwelling in us. Its an impossible love apart from God working in and through the believer who has yielded to the Spirit. Take a look at the Fruit of the Spirit and 1 Cor 13 to see love in action.

1-The Bible says that we are to love others the way that God loves us. We are to love the family of God (1 Peter 2:17).
2-We are to love our enemies—that is, we are to actively seek what is best for them (Matthew 5:44).
3- As we show benevolent, selfless love, we reflect God’s love to a lost and dying world. “We love because he first loved us” (1 John 4:19). got ?

hope this helps !!!

1213 · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
He loved his associates as himself...

I can agree with that. But how many people would think it means that they are ready to die for their neighbor? I think it raises the bar higher. But, this is only my opinion, you don’t have to accept it.

Martin Hevasaright · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.

G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

Martin Hevasaright · Jul 2, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.

G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

it

nolidad · Jul 2, 2020

Dkh587 said:
There were similar commands in the Torah:

Exodus 22:21

Leviticus 19:33-34

it is quite reasonable to view these as the original basis for Messiah teaching his disciples to love each other as he loved them.

God freed the Israelites from oppression, and commanded them to not oppress foreigners living amongst them, because they were once foreigners.

I agree the command of Jesus is somewhat similar! But it is qualitatively and quantitatively different. Loving someone as I love myself is far different than loving one as God loves me! Human love is eros and phileos but Gods love is agape!

No New Commandment

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