Futurist Only "No man knows the day or hour"

[Jamdoc]

So, I'm sure you get this from pretribulationists around this time every year, because many have subscribed to the rapture happening on a feast of trumpets to fulfill literally the fall feasts the way Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts literally with His death (Passover), burial (feast of unleavened bread), resurrection (first fruits), and ascension (Pentecost). Usually the doctrine of imminence is the strongest argument for pretribulationism, but because of their belief that it has to happen often immediately before the last 7 years of human histroy, it actually lends itself to date setting and pretribulationists have been the worst date setters.

I understand the argument against a post tribulation rapture, because with post, you see the abomination of desolation and then mark your calendar for 1260 days after that, and if you see it in Zechariah 14, you can even know it'll be evening on that day. I mean, Satan obviously does that, that's how he has an army waiting at Armageddon on the day that Jesus rides to battle on a white horse in Revelation 19. They're already there at the appointed place at the appointed time. Obviously "no man knows the day or the hour" does not apply to Armageddon.

But what a lot of pretribulationists do, is basically take May 14, 1948 as the start of the "Generation that will not pass" (wrong date as I have said before, Jesus doesn't return to Tel Aviv He returns to Jerusalem, but that's another topic, and the same form of date setting should not be used with this starting date either), and add 70 years (because pf Psalm 90:10), or 80 once it was apparent that it wasn't going to happen in the 70, then subtract 7 years to arrive at a date, either in May to be exactly 63/73 years after the nation of Israel was born, or the feast of trumpets that year. I saw it a lot last year because of how bad the year was that people were bracing for rapture last year's feast of trumpets, and I've been seeing it this year too. Well, how many of you are still here though you expected not to be? It took what was supposed to be an imminent event and because of hard line definitions such as Psalm 90:10, and it needs to be 7 years before the date you get from that... they end up date setting.

But it's not what Jesus said. Jesus never said it'd be 70 or 80 years after the fig tree began to bring forth new leaves. He just said that generation would not pass; some would still be alive and see all the events He was talking about. People have sometimes lived over 110 years old. So it's a bad practice to use Psalm 90:10 for this purpose. Just... stop doing that.

Also, another thing that Jesus said, for the post tribulationists...
Matthew 24:22

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

When we see the abomination of Desolation (and Jesus WAS addressing believers, the fathers of the Church in Matthew 24:15, not unbelieving Jews, yes we'll be here for that), you also can't look to Armageddon 1260 days later, because that too is a known date.
Matthew 24:22 is a very important verse.. the 1260 days are shortened for the elect. Jesus gives no indication of by how long. You'll see the abomination of desolation, which IS the principal sign given by Jesus, and then there's a 1260 day window. Jesus can cut that 1260 days short by any amount of time to spare even 1 believer from death.

Until the AoD, we really don't know where we are in the prophetic timeline.

 

[Dave G.]

Well it's instant, we know that because it will be like in the days of Noah, as everything will be carrying on as usual ( except of course Noah is building this huge boat that nobody understands). There isn't any particular panic in the world at the time yet two will be in bed and one is just gone, two in a field and one is gone. The event of coming for the bride is likened to the Jewish wedding though, where the groom has gone to the fathers house to prepare a place and will return when the father says go. We know that we, unlike certain brides maids, should have our lamps full of oil ready to go in to the wedding and that the door is locked once those who go are gone. We have scripture of pre signs of His coming , increased activity of all sorts on earth but not day or hour is given as those days with increased negative activity is not yet the day or hour but likened to birth pains, that many don't recognize.

One last feature is they/we go we go to the wedding feast of the lamb, if it's post trib it's a bungee ride to heaven and back to earth with His return, maybe if lucky with time to grab a bag of peanuts off the wedding table. The imminence means any time, we don't know the time nor Gods ways. So we who go could be gone before I finish typing this or it could be in 1000 years. But we are to be prepared to go and also do His work meanwhile. I'm 71, I expect to die naturally some day sooner now than when I was 12, if He comes for us before that I skip the process of dieing. Praise God however it goes. Spend our time teaching and preaching but don't be afraid to look up and say even so Lord come quickly. There is a blessing in that for us.

Do I personally think the time is near ? Well it's nearer than it was 2000 years ago. This is worth noting though: He comes to the clouds to gather His bride so there on they shall forever be with Him. When He returns to earth feet on the ground He comes with His bride. Irrefutable truth regardless of timing. Course you got those who believe in a horizontal rapture which totally nixes the marriage supper not to mention 1 Thessalonians 4.

Noteworthy, before the tribulation events in the book of Revelation, going into chapter 4 John sees an open door to heaven and someone calling him up. He pokes his head around has a look see and finds the elders of the church there. These are thoughts for speculation. I believe He will come in that twinkling of an eye, instant. You can't put your finger on it, it just happens. And isn't that just like God ?

Date setters are false prophets unless it actually happens and at that could have had a lucky guess. We aren't to listen to false prophets last I knew.

 

[Jamdoc]

Well it's instant, we know that because it will be like in the days of Noah, as everything will be carrying on as usual ( except of course Noah is building this huge boat that nobody understands). There isn't any particular panic in the world at the time yet two will be in bed and one is just gone, two in a field and one is gone. The event of coming for the bride is likened to the Jewish wedding though, where the groom has gone to the fathers house to prepare a place and will return when the father says go. We know that we, unlike certain brides maids, should have our lamps full of oil ready to go in to the wedding and that the door is locked once those who go are gone. We have scripture of pre signs of His coming , increased activity of all sorts on earth but not day or hour is given as those days with increased negative activity is not yet the day or hour but likened to birth pains, that many don't recognize.

The important thing, that you seem to also get, is that though sudden, in each of the pictures Jesus used to illustrate the point, the believers were aware of coming destruction before it happened, it did not come as a surprise to them. it came as a surprise to the unbelieving. Paul makes this a point in 1 Thessalonians 5. It comes on the world as a thief in the night, but on believers we're to anticipate it because we recognize the signs Jesus gave, principally, the Abomination of Desolation, and when we see the sun and moon darkened, we're to look up, cause that's our redemption. We're to watch for signs and prepare, right now we're watching the birth pangs, the beginnings of sorrows, and also the falling away. What is next prophetically and actually gives us that moment where it becomes imminent, is the Abomination of Desolation, that is the "point of no return" until then realistically we're only GUESSING that these are birth pangs and the beginning of sorrows.

Now, how could the whole world be buying and selling, marrying and giving in marriage during "the 7 year tribulation"? (totally unbiblical term btw and I'll never stop resenting people using it, but that's because I subscribe to Jesus' definition of Great Tribulation not modern man's) Because aside from the Christians that are persecuted after the midpoint, everyone who takes the mark of the beast will be living relatively normal lives. The Antichrist comes on the heels of the 4 horsemen, the first 4 seals that are a crisis that the Antichrist "solves" with his new kingdom. After that it's a return to normalcy for most of the world, they "build back better" in their eyes. But the Jews and Christians will be persecuted, but just like during the Holocaust, for most Germans, life went on as usual.

One last feature is they/we go we go to the wedding feast of the lamb, if it's post trib it's a bungee ride to heaven and back to earth with His return, maybe if lucky with time to grab a bag of peanuts off the wedding table. The imminence means any time, we don't know the time nor Gods ways. So we who go could be gone before I finish typing this or it could be in 1000 years. But we are to be prepared to go and also do His work meanwhile. I'm 71, I expect to die naturally some day sooner now than when I was 12, if He comes for us before that I skip the process of dieing. Praise God however it goes. Spend our time teaching and preaching but don't be afraid to look up and say even so Lord come quickly. There is a blessing in that for us.

Post "trib" has its own problems and that is one of them, but also because they can set a date. The fact that Satan knows the date should clue them in on the problems of their position, but.. they persist anyway.

I'm neither pre trib nor "post trib", although the rapture does happen after the Great Tribulation.... if you understand what Great Tribulation is as Jesus meant it, not as is commonly interpreted.

Do I personally think the time is near ? Well it's nearer than it was 2000 years ago. This is worth noting though: He comes to the clouds to gather His bride so there on they shall forever be with Him. When He returns to earth feet on the ground He comes with His bride. Irrefutable truth regardless of timing. Course you got those who believe in a horizontal rapture which totally nixes the marriage supper not to mention 1 Thessalonians 4.

No I certainly believe in rapture, just a pre wrath one rather than pre 70th week. To me Jesus cuts the 1260 days after the AoD short with the Rapture, but it's not Armageddon, that happens later. How much later? I don't know, just 1260 days after the AoD. Could be a year, could be 2 years. The 5th trumpet is 5 months long, so.. probably by more than that.

Noteworthy, before the tribulation events in the book of Revelation, going into chapter 4 John sees an open door to heaven and someone calling him up. He pokes his head around has a look see and finds the elders of the church there. These are thoughts for speculation. I believe He will come in that twinkling of an eye, instant. You can't put your finger on it, it just happens. And isn't that just like God ?

That vision should not be taken to be a rapture passage at all, because the rapture as described in 1 Thessalonians 4 is not just a "come up" but rather it's Jesus coming down, with a shout, an archangel, and a trumpet. It's very noisy and overt. It's not secret or hidden or like the popular movie "rapture" of just people poofing with no explanation why. He comes down in the clouds, we go up and meet Him in the air. From there I think we go to heaven, and a post trib thinks we just go right back down to earth.

Date setters are false prophets unless it actually happens and at that could have had a lucky guess. We aren't to listen to false prophets last I knew.

Correct, I waited till today but felt burdened about people claiming this feast of trumpets had to be the day because of Psalm 90:10 and it being 7 years before what they think is Revelation 19 that they think has to happen 80 years after 1948 (and they had previously thought 70 years in 2018)
Now, we're past the 70 and 80 year marks, so can we stop using Psalm 90:10 to try and date set?

 

[Timtofly]

Until the AoD, we really don't know where we are in the prophetic timeline.

By that time all you can do is have some one chop your head off asap.

Any one who claims a solid 7 year period is the worse date setter ever. At the time of the Aod there is only 42 months until Armageddon.

"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

The countdown to Armageddon starts, and no AoD yet. If you knew when the end was, you could set a few dates.

One could place a hard date for the end at April 17, 2030. Thanks to computers we can see the future, calendar days that is. That would be 2000 years to the same Wednesday, the 14 of Nisan as April 5th 30AD, Wednesday, the 14 of Nisan. Is Armageddon in the spring or fall though? If the 7th Trumpet was to sound the end, and started 42 months prior to Armageddon, but could not finish because of this 42 month interruption, then we would be in the fall of 2026. Yet that only gives us a plausible date for the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. If 2026 is the end, and Satan is not going to get 42 months, could God just end it there, instead of the hard date in 2030? Sure, God can do as He pleases. Satan and sin are still robbed of 42 months, that would have been their's, but are now unnecessary. Both are not necessary just to prolong Adam's punishment. Humanity would just get a reduced sentence.

So just for Satan, alone, whether necessary or not, we moved the hard end date up 42 months. If it happens, it happens. If it does not happen, the Millennium still starts. Revelation 14, and the winepress will still be in the fall of 2026.

Note: this is not to be construed as date setting. Just holding God to His promises. Exodus 20:9

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

God blesses the 7th Day, and makes it Holy. Jesus said : "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

What did Jesus mean: Genesis 2

"God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce."

"Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven."

Who is Lord of the Sabbath? On what Day did Adonai the Lord God create all things? What history of the heavens and earth happened on that Day?

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

How does remembering keep a Day Holy? Should we know why there is a Millennium and why it cannot start past a certain date? What history is missing where mankind was allowed to be perfect and Holy, without sin, and a Satan to introduce sin into the world?

The Second Coming is months before the 7th Trumpet, and no man can know the day or the hour, but even Satan knows time is up when that 7th Trumpet starts to sound. That 7th Millennium has to start, and Satan is not in it, again, to mess things up.

 

[Dave G.]

We don't know the day or the hour but that doesn't say we don't know the season is upon us. We are given the signs of the season approaching ( birth pangs), even the earth knows but unbelievers seem oblivious, just as a huge boat was something crazy in Noah's day, till God shut the door and the rains came and thus it was too late for those locked outside. Same for the brides maids with no oil, same for the one left in the bed or standing in the field now alone. You can't fix it,it's too late. What a sinking feeling that brings me.

So if someone here has hesitated on accepting Jesus as savior now is the time as we still live in this age of Grace. Do it today because we truly don't know the day or the hour. And it's even worse after you enter the 7 year period because strong delusion is cast over you in that time. Don't believe me, I'll be glad to provide the verses.

3-1/2 years in Antichrist receives Satan internally, his wrath goes out, then Gods final wrath. By the end 1/3 or even 1/4 the earths population is all that is left. That's like 6-1/2 billion people dead. You think covid is bad !!!

 

[Jamdoc]

By that time all you can do is have some one chop your head off asap.

Any one who claims a solid 7 year period is the worse date setter ever. At the time of the Aod there is only 42 months until Armageddon.

"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

The countdown to Armageddon starts, and no AoD yet. If you knew when the end was, you could set a few dates.

One could place a hard date for the end at April 17, 2030. Thanks to computers we can see the future, calendar days that is. That would be 2000 years to the same Wednesday, the 14 of Nisan as April 5th 30AD, Wednesday, the 14 of Nisan. Is Armageddon in the spring or fall though? If the 7th Trumpet was to sound the end, and started 42 months prior to Armageddon, but could not finish because of this 42 month interruption, then we would be in the fall of 2026. Yet that only gives us a plausible date for the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. If 2026 is the end, and Satan is not going to get 42 months, could God just end it there, instead of the hard date in 2030? Sure, God can do as He pleases. Satan and sin are still robbed of 42 months, that would have been their's, but are now unnecessary. Both are not necessary just to prolong Adam's punishment. Humanity would just get a reduced sentence.

So just for Satan, alone, whether necessary or not, we moved the hard end date up 42 months. If it happens, it happens. If it does not happen, the Millennium still starts. Revelation 14, and the winepress will still be in the fall of 2026.

Note: this is not to be construed as date setting. Just holding God to His promises. Exodus 20:9

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

God blesses the 7th Day, and makes it Holy. Jesus said : "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

What did Jesus mean: Genesis 2

"God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce."

"Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven."

Who is Lord of the Sabbath? On what Day did Adonai the Lord God create all things? What history of the heavens and earth happened on that Day?

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

How does remembering keep a Day Holy? Should we know why there is a Millennium and why it cannot start past a certain date? What history is missing where mankind was allowed to be perfect and Holy, without sin, and a Satan to introduce sin into the world?

The Second Coming is months before the 7th Trumpet, and no man can know the day or the hour, but even Satan knows time is up when that 7th Trumpet starts to sound. That 7th Millennium has to start, and Satan is not in it, again, to mess things up.

I don't know why you post.. you have a bizarre eschatology that doesn't line up with the bible and is just loaded with personal interpretations that nobody else shares. Sorry.