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No Literal Hell?

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th1bill

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See my above post, yes it is completely Biblical because the Bible makes it very clear that the damned will suffer for eternity.
I see now that you are being assaulted with the define Hell trick. I deal with this constantly and even when I put forth all of the different ideas drawn from scripture to illustrate my point... they still seldom get it.
 
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th1bill

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Yes, as has been stated by others, the wages of sin is death not eternal life. I think that the mark of the beast is the closest analogy to what Christ calls the unforgivable sin, I believe this because Satan is said to have committed the unforgivable sin and since Satan's punishment is the same as that of those marked by the beast, it is a simple step.
You see Robert, they fail to comprehend Eternal Death and Suffering.
 
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RobertZ

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These boys will do well to pay attention to you but I would not count on it!


It amazes me at how many just dont wanna believe that God is perfectly Just in punishing an unrepentant sinner for all eternity, they instead wanna make out God to be the bad guy for giving the person exactly what they deserve.
 
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th1bill

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acording to the mormons, people go to hell for up to a thousand years, unless you are a christian who is overcome by satan, at which point you are so heinous you go to hell forever with the devil and his angels.
And the entire Mormon Cult has what to do with what God has decreed, aside from the truth that they will burn in the Lake of Fire for eternity?
 
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th1bill

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there are people who sin by farting, their farts are rude and uncalled for. that's all they did. they will be tortured in hell for all eternity? or just for a little while? i mean, do you catch my drift? if you only sinned a LITTLE, should you suffer the same as those who sin GREATLY?
Not funny and absolutely not Christian comments.
 
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mick24458

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If the word "eternal" means forever and ever and ever, you are right, but if the word "olam" OT and the word "aion" NT (words translated "eternal" in English bibles) actually mean "the age" or "pertaining to the age" or "age-long" then there are letigimate questions that need to be asked about the doctrine of eternal damnation. Also, if judgement is educative rather than just "payback" and the lake of fire is refining and pertaining to the age to come - death and hades destroyed in it but souls perhaps refined (these arguments can be gleaned from fair reading of scripture and understanding of the original words) THEN there are questions that need to be answered if we are to hld on to "eternal torture" as a doctrine. Nobody who is blogging or posting seems to be answering these fundamental questions.
Also an understanding of the word "gehenna" (translated as hell in the NT, especially Jesus' references) and its reference to the judgement on Israel in both Jeremiah and Jesus's prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem. In both cases the bodies of the Jews killed by the conquering armies were thrown into gehenna (the Valley of Hinnom - a very real historical place where it was said that the fire never went out and the worm did not die.
I'm open to being taught but no one seems to be answering the crucial questions!!!
 
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th1bill

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If the word "eternal" means forever and ever and ever, you are right, but if the word "olam" OT and the word "aion" NT (words translated "eternal" in English bibles) actually mean "the age" or "pertaining to the age" or "age-long" then there are letigimate questions that need to be asked about the doctrine of eternal damnation. Also, if judgement is educative rather than just "payback" and the lake of fire is refining and pertaining to the age to come - death and hades destroyed in it but souls perhaps refined (these arguments can be gleaned from fair reading of scripture and understanding of the original words) THEN there are questions that need to be answered if we are to hld on to "eternal torture" as a doctrine. Nobody who is blogging or posting seems to be answering these fundamental questions.
Also an understanding of the word "gehenna" (translated as hell in the NT, especially Jesus' references) and its reference to the judgement on Israel in both Jeremiah and Jesus's prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem. In both cases the bodies of the Jews killed by the conquering armies were thrown into gehenna (the Valley of Hinnom - a very real historical place where it was said that the fire never went out and the worm did not die.
I'm open to being taught but no one seems to be answering the crucial questions!!!
Friend, there are points that, if brought into a conversion conversation, just bring the effectiveness down to near zero. In the same manor, if we question the translators we are, through disobedience, making God fit an image that has, for centuries, been conjured up in the minds of disobedient men to rationalize their actions.

Furthermore, we are commanded, by God, to believe as little children! Now, I have no idea what that means to you but when I grew up, my Dad was the toughest and smartest man the US Air Force ever had the good fortune to serve with them and when he said something, it was fact and unquestionable. In like manor, my sons and daughters believed every word I said to them and I was and still am one of the greatest men to ever pin a few medals on his chest.

So, in the Old and the New Testaments, God has given us a revelation of Himself that we are to believe, without question. In the Bible, God has revealed, to us, that He is the single, truly, Awesome, being in the universe, to include the Spirit Realm, also! He is the God that spoke and everything came into being. He is the God that breathed and a lump of clay lived. To question His revelation of Himself is tantamount to putting God in your pocket. If You believe that He is not the God that is able to preserve His Word then you can do as you wish with all of creation because you must be, at least, His equal and perhaps His better.

You tread, rather, without regard for you eternal destiny and that is a very dangerous path to explore. I wish you well but your faith is very weak.
 
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Bear.Fr00t

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He addressed those subjects perfectly in his post, you must have missed what he said about death being cast into the lake of fire before the damned were cast in.

But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
 
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rstrats

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I just don’t understand why people want to believe that the fate of the unsaved is to spend eternity in conscious torment when there is simply no scripture that can absolutely be taken no other way than to mean eternal torment for the unsaved - with the possible exception of the devil as the KJV has it - to support that belief. I don’t understand why they try to read into scripture something that makes the loving supreme being of the Bible into a heartless monster. I simply do not understand what there is that makes them want to do that when there is no need to. Why do they want to believe that a loving supreme being will horribly torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn’t satisfy certain requirements? Who does that benefit? I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t rather believe that a loving supreme being will wipe the person mercifully out of existence because for some reason they didn’t or couldn’t meet these requirements and didn’t develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being.

Why not concentrate on all of the scriptures that say one way or another that the consequence on sin is death - and take death to mean the cessation and absence of life? Eccl. 9:5 - "...but the dead know not anything...".

And for those who believe that the supreme being knows before he creates a person that he will eventually be tossing the person into the lake of fire, why do you think that he goes ahead and creates the person anyway? What pleasure can He get from that?
 
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begt

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It amazes me at how many just dont wanna believe that God is perfectly Just in punishing an unrepentant sinner for all eternity, they instead wanna make out God to be the bad guy for giving the person exactly what they deserve.

What is the point of endless suffering or even an eternity in heaven?

If a human being could live 10 000 years or let's say 10 million years in heaven he would be so tired of himself that he'd want to rip himself to pieces. Imagine doing the same routine over and over again; for that's what it would feel like eventually. If something lasts forever, whatever it might be, it would be torture and of course your mental faculties would cease to function as time goes by. You would go insane eventually even if your body could not age over time. And if a god somehow prevented you from getting insane you would no longer be human and no longer yourself anymore. It would be like being constantly on drugs, which is anything but natural.

I was not bothered by being "dead" for 13 billion years before I was born so
I'm not worried about not having an afterlife. It makes me think more highly of the life I'm currently living.
 
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begt

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Believe me, you will have an afterlife whether you want to believe it or not.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Why should I believe you? Prove it with reasoned argument, not passages from an ancient book that doesn't make sense.

If god is omnipotent and thus very intelligent indeed he would not have us rely on an ancient text that we know has been translated many times (and at least some of the original intent has been confused). Certainly not a life/death choice like heaven or hell would he expect us to take on faith. That's one reason why I don't think the bible is based on the teachings of a god.
 
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RobertZ

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But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)


Your still missing it, Death itself is destroyed in the Lake of Fire before the damned are cast into it. The ability to "Cease to exist" as you would put it is destroyed by the lake of fire, the only thing left for those who will be cast into the lake of fire is an eternal conscious torment and they shall have no rest day or night.
 
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RobertZ

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Why should I believe you? Prove it with reasoned argument, not passages from an ancient book that doesn't make sense.


Passages from an ancient book that doesnt make sense? so your an unbeliever I take it? Well in that case no one but God himself can convince you and I pray that he reveals himself to you before its too late.
 
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Hammster

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begt said:
Don't worry about me RobertZ, or anyone else for that matter. If an omnipotent god would force us to rely on faith in order to get to heaven (to escape hell) then that god is not mentally sane.

I approve of secular humanism and reasoned logic- hard to beat.

I guess it's good, then, that He doesn't force us to rely on faith. That way He can still look good to you (which I am sure is a big concern to Him).
 
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Hammster

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begt said:
I beg to differ, I don't understand how you can possibly say so. Can you list the arguments that you use to get to that conclusion?

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
 
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