No Literal Hell?

[th1bill]

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } I have just been surfing a few Christian Forum sites and the things promoted by people naming the name of Christ amazes me. Over the years I have heard the name Rob Bell more than once and in seeking the wisdom of other Basics Grounded Teachers have avoided wasting my funds on the books he pushes as Christian. There is a post on one forum this morning that seeks? to equip other members of this particular forum for the upcoming debate that is, apparently, sure to come. I'm going to attempt to be kind here but the truth is that in his link I did not find the scriptures.By the scriptures, of course, I mean the Bible, the Word of God's personal revelation of Himself.

The book, it is reported by the poster, is concerning the lack of any real Hell. In all the copies of the Bible that I own Genesis 1:1 points out that it is Almighty God that created the Universe and all that it contains. And when we go to John 1:1-3 we learn that the Son of God, popularly known as God in the flesh and Jesus, is the Creator of all of this. As it is very popular to ignore the Bible and to read the Commentary instead, I'll limit this post, from here forward to that Commentary, the New Testament. In the Four Gospels, Jesus/God taught more on the turth and fact of Hell than He did on Heaven. If any of us then puts it forward that there is no such place as a literal Hell... we are guilty of calling God a liar!


I know that I will stand, what is popularly known as, the Bema Seat Judgment but I certainly never wish to even be near the Great White Throne Judgment and calling God a liar, directly or by inference, is one sure fire way to get there and to, experientially, find out that Hell is real and that it is never ending. Throughout the scriptures we find that God cannot tolerate sin in His presence and Jesus stated that he was 'the' way, 'the' way and 'the' life. (John 14:6) Not even that He was or might be one of the ways, He is The Way.(Emphasis mine.)



So my question is this, “Why do we believe that a Finite Man, created by God knows more that the Infinite Creator that has forever been?

 

[His_disciple3]

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } I have just been surfing a few Christian Forum sites and the things promoted by people naming the name of Christ amazes me. Over the years I have heard the name Rob Bell more than once and in seeking the wisdom of other Basics Grounded Teachers have avoided wasting my funds on the books he pushes as Christian. There is a post on one forum this morning that seeks? to equip other members of this particular forum for the upcoming debate that is, apparently, sure to come. I'm going to attempt to be kind here but the truth is that in his link I did not find the scriptures.By the scriptures, of course, I mean the Bible, the Word of God's personal revelation of Himself.

The book, it is reported by the poster, is concerning the lack of any real Hell. In all the copies of the Bible that I own Genesis 1:1 points out that it is Almighty God that created the Universe and all that it contains. And when we go to John 1:1-3 we learn that the Son of God, popularly known as God in the flesh and Jesus, is the Creator of all of this. As it is very popular to ignore the Bible and to read the Commentary instead, I'll limit this post, from here forward to that Commentary, the New Testament. In the Four Gospels, Jesus/God taught more on the turth and fact of Hell than He did on Heaven. If any of us then puts it forward that there is no such place as a literal Hell... we are guilty of calling God a liar!


I know that I will stand, what is popularly known as, the Bema Seat Judgment but I certainly never wish to even be near the Great White Throne Judgment and calling God a liar, directly or by inference, is one sure fire way to get there and to, experientially, find out that Hell is real and that it is never ending. Throughout the scriptures we find that God cannot tolerate sin in His presence and Jesus stated that he was 'the' way, 'the' way and 'the' life. (John 14:6) Not even that He was or might be one of the ways, He is The Way.(Emphasis mine.)



So my question is this, “Why do we believe that a Finite Man, created by God knows more that the Infinite Creator that has forever been?

my guess would be Pride! the same pride that lead lucifer to believe that he could raise himself above God.

 

[rstrats]

th1bill,

re: " ...and to, experientially, find out that Hell is real and that it is never ending."

Are you suggesting that "Finite Man" will be consciously tortured for all of eternity after death and hell are cast into the lake of fire? - That "Finite Man" will be given immortality and thus eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgement?

 

[RobertZ]

th1bill,

Are you suggesting that "Finite Man" will be consciously tortured for all of eternity after death and hell are cast into the lake of fire? - That "Finite Man" will be given immortality and thus eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgement?

Where do you see anything about the damned being given eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgement?

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Where do you see anything about the damned being given eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgement?

If the damned are tormented forever then they too are immortal just like the saved.

 

[rstrats]

RobertZ,

re: "Where do you see anything about the damned being given eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgement?"

I don’t. I was asking th1bill if he does.

 

[RobertZ]

If the damned are tormented forever then they too are immortal just like the saved.

So do you believe in the unbiblical annihilation theory?

 

[faceofbear]

I'm not a fan of Rob Bell, but what is so different about Love Wins as opposed to the Great Divorce by CS Lewis?

 

[rstrats]

RobertZ,

re: "So do you believe in the unbiblical annihilation theory?"
　
Why do you think that it is unbiblical? Doesn’t scripture say that the wages of sin is death? Notice that it says death and not eternal life.

 

[RobertZ]

Why do you think that it is unbiblical?

It is unbiblical because it isnt in the Bible.

 

[RobertZ]

"The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name."

 

[Keachian]

It is unbiblical because it isnt in the Bible.

It's also not biblical that where the damned do go for eternity is hell. In fact death and hell is destroyed before God creates the new heaven and new earth.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[RobertZ]

It's also not biblical that where the damned do go for eternity is hell. In fact death and hell is destroyed before God creates the new heaven and new earth.

See my above post, yes it is completely Biblical because the Bible makes it very clear that the damned will suffer for eternity.

 

[Keachian]

Your passage doesn't talk about hell, in fact the place where the torment takes place seems to actually be in heaven

If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Or is the Lamb and the host damned for all eternity? I say this is heresy of the highest order! For noone should say Jesus is damned! (1 Corinthians 12:3)

 

[RobertZ]

Your passage doesn't talk about hell, in fact the place where the torment takes place seems to actually be in heaven

I never said it was hell as hell is a temporary holding place until the Judgement. This passage is the Lake of Fire which is being spoken of and again if you notice those in it have no rest day nor night. It doesnt say anything about them ceasing to exist.

Or is the Lamb and the host damned for all eternity? I say this is heresy of the highest order! For noone should say Jesus is damned! (1 Corinthians 12:3)

The scripture says that they are tormented in the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels, it doesnt say anything about Jesus being damned along with them and I have absolutely no idea why you would even make such a suggestion other than the fact that you dont know what these passages are actually saying.

Be careful with twisting the scripture to fit unbiblical heresy, its unwise.

 

[Keachian]

I never said it was hell as hell is a temporary holding place until the Judgement. This passage is the Lake of Fire which is being spoken of and again if you notice those in it have no rest day nor night. It doesnt say anything about them ceasing to exist.

This I can agree with you, however I would extend your concept of hell towards that of the Judaic idea of sheol, where everyone goes when they die and it is a holding place until judgement. The OP talks about hell as if it were the lake of fire.

The scripture says that they are tormented in the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels, it doesnt say anything about Jesus being damned along with them and I have absolutely no idea why you would even make such a suggestion other than the fact that you dont know what these passages are actually saying.

It was just a misunderstanding I think we are on a similar page as regards to hell (that being a holding place till judgement)

Be careful with twisting the scripture to fit unbiblical heresy, its unwise.

I'm not twisting scripture, I think mainly our differences come from how we interpret this second death, you seem to be separating the body from the spirit and saying that it is merely eternal separation from God, while I believe that the second death leads to destruction of the soul, I believe that this is valid as the description of the result of the judged is second death, while that of Satan, The Beast, The Prophet and their followers is that of eternal torment. If you have some other scripture post it

 

[RobertZ]

while that of Satan, The Beast, The Prophet and their followers is that of eternal torment. If you have some other scripture post it

So you believe the only humans that will suffer eternal torment are those who take the mark of the beast?

 

[Keachian]

Yes, as has been stated by others, the wages of sin is death not eternal life. I think that the mark of the beast is the closest analogy to what Christ calls the unforgivable sin, I believe this because Satan is said to have committed the unforgivable sin and since Satan's punishment is the same as that of those marked by the beast, it is a simple step.

 

[Skala]

The unforgivable sin is attributing Christ's power to demonic forces.

In other words, rejecting Christ, even with the proof of miracles.

 

[Keachian]

The unforgivable sin is attributing Christ's power to demonic forces.

In other words, rejecting Christ, even with the proof of miracles.

Yep exactly glad we agree