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DeaconDean

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My point is that nowhere in scripture are the words eternal/everlasting/forever, etc. used together with torment/torture - with the exception of the devil, as the KJV has it, in Revelation 20:10.

Its as plain as the nose on your face.

In Rev. 19:20, we read:

"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

In Rev. 20:10, we read:

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

And in Rev. 20:15, we read:

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

The Beast and the false prophet are cast into the "lake of fire".

Afterwards the devil is cast into the same place.

After the great white throne judgement, everybody whose name is not in the Lamb's book of Life, are cast into the same place. As a matter of fact, death and hell are cast into the same place also.

Now if the beast and false prophet are in the lake of fire to be tormented day and night for ever, the devil is cast into the same place to be tormented forever, and those not found in the Book of Life are cast into the same place, what is to make us think they will not be tormented day and night forever and ever?

Its as plain as the nose on your face, and scriptures say it explicitly.

The beast, the false prophet, Satan, and those who are names are not in the Lamb's book of Life are all cast into the same place.

And if the beast, false prophet and the devil are going to be tormented forever, what makes us think the unsaved, unrepentant will fare better than them?

If you don't want to believe the unsaved, unrepentant won't be toryured forever, so be it.

But scriptures say otherwise.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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Let me quote regarding "αἰῶνας αἰώνων ":


The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, Editor, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Translator, Wm. B. Erdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Copyright 1964, Vol. I. "aiwn", Herman Sasse, commenting, p. 208-209

So "aiwnaV aiwnwn" (for ever and ever-KJV) or (age of ages-Greek rendition) can still be properly rendered as "for all eternity".

Just because it carries a different strongs number don't mean a thing. Both "aiwnaV" and "aiwnwn" come from the Greek word ""aiwn".

Eternity/eternal is as valid a definition for "aiwnaV" as eternal is for "aiwn".

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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phoenixdem

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There have been many translations and commentaries written by highly knowledgeable people. There are also the early Church Fathers who had knowledge of the meaning of the scriptures. You don't trust them?
 
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OzSpen

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Dean,
Thanks so much for quoting a reliable Greek source. It does bother me when people who do not know NT Greek quote Strong's as their source.

You have demonstrated the eternal nature of hell.

Thanks, Oz
 
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OzSpen

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There have been many translations and commentaries written by highly knowledgeable people. There are also the early Church Fathers who had knowledge of the meaning of the scriptures. You don't trust them?
So, you don't know the differences in meaning of sheol, hades, tartarus and ghenna? And it doesn't seem to matter to you what those differences are.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Should I expect an exam in the near future?
No examination is expected. However, when you discuss hell on a forum like this, you need to be familiar with the four Greek words that are translated hell: sheol, hades, tartarus and ghenna.

Why don't you treat this as a learning curve in your spiritual growth?

Oz
 
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phoenixdem

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On the other hand, you could treat this as a leap forward in your ability to understand that regardless of what a place is called, when the Holy Scriptures say it is a place of eternal fire and punishment, the place is far more important than what you call it.

It would also be a leap forward if you study the writings of the early Church Fathers and see what they had to say on this subject.
 
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DeaconDean

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I can say the same as Paul:

"For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." -Acts 20:26 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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phoenixdem

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This, ladies and gentlemen, is religion.
Do we recall what Jesus likened religion to?

It is called adherring to the Word of God. It is a shame that more people don't do that in these last days.

Do we recall what God said about those who change the Word of God?

Revelation:

22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy
of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add
unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and
out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this
book.
 
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DeaconDean

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There have been some awful strong innunemdos thrown around here in this thread concerning what we as Baptists believe about the Holy Bible.

The first Baptist confession in America states:


THe Philadelphia Baptist Confession of Faith of 1742, Chapter 1, Of the Holy Scriptures, Sections 1, 8, 10

philadelphia confession-chapter 1

This is reiterated in:

1806 Mississippi Baptist Association Articles of Faith | The Reformed Reader

Principles of Faith of the Sandy Creek Association | The Reformed Reader

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

treatise of faith and practices of free will baptists

abstract of principles contents

Articles Put Forth by the Baptist Bible Union of America | The Reformed Reader

1925 Baptist Faith and Message

Faith and Message | The Reformed Reader

To imply that the Bible as we have it today is imperfect:

not perfect: as a : defective

Imperfect - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Is wrong!


Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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FreeinChrist

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reopening this thread​

 
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Vambram

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DeaconDean

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Sister, I want to ask you a question.

Are you a Baptist?

If not, then you really shouldn't be debating here.

As a Baptist, one of the things we hold to is the validity to scriptures.

Scriptures tell us that God cannot lie. (Titus 1:2)

And that every word in the Holy Writ is literally "God-breathed" or "θεόπνευστος". (2 Tim. 3:16)

Now if God cannot lie, and His Holy word the scriptures are God breathed, then His scriptures cannot lie either.

Again, our Baptist Confessions of faith also state, based on scripture:



The Philadelphia Baptist Confession Of Faith of 1742, Chapter XXXIII, Of the State of Man After Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead; Chapter XXXIV, Of the Last Judgment

Now whether you want to accept this or not, that is your choice.

I have shown from the Greek scriptures that the lake of fire and brimstone is a real place, and that those who are cast into this place will be there in torments for all eternity.

Continued...
 
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DeaconDean

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From my paper "Speaking of Hell":


God Bless

Till all are one.

[1] John Bunyan, The Resurrection of the Dead and Eternal Judgment, [article on-line] accessed 8/9/06, found on the World Wide Web at: The Resurrection Of The Dead, And Eternal Judgment:
 
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