"No full preterist views..." ?

[Sphinx777]

"No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed..."

What is a full preterist? How do they differ from partial preterists? I'm not that heavy into Eschatology,
what do these terms signify about one's understanding of Revelations and the "End Times"?

 

[Nilloc]

What is a full preterist?

A full preterist is a person who believes that every single prophecy of the Bible is fulfilled, that Jesus has already returned, that the Resurrection of the dead has already taken place, and that sin and death will continue on forever. They believe that all prophecy was fulfilled no later than the destruction of the Jewish Temple in the year 70 A.D.

How do they differ from partial preterists?

The difference between a full preterist and an Orthodox/Partial Preterist, such as myself, is that while we belive that most (but not all) prophecy was fulfilled by 70 A.D., we still believe in a future Second Coming, Resurrection of the dead, and Final Judgement.

 

[GQ Chris]

Full Preterist view if it were true would be very depressing.

 

[Nilloc]

Full Preterist view if it were true would be very depressing.

You're right.

It's no wonder that Paul said they destroy the faith of some:

2 Timothy 2
16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Full Preterist view if it were true would be very depressing.

That is one of the primary reason the Orthodox Jews do not believe Jesus was their Messiah because He did not accomplish ALL things in that Generation, so imagine how depressed they are after waiting 2000yr for their own Messiah.

I can read the Bible as fulflled me "me" and it doesn't bother me a bit, but I would never impinge that view on others since most are still waiting on the Blessed Hope of the "RAPTURE". May He come quickly for both us and the Jews!!!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7252012

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?' [Daniel 12/Revelation 19]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him [Zech 14:5/Revelation 19:11.]

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven having be opened and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful and True and in justice He is judging and is battling. 14 And the armies, the in the heaven, followed to him on horses, white, having been inslipped/dressed linen, white, clean,

 

[Nilloc]

That is one of the primary reason the Orthodox Jews do not believe Jesus was their Messiah because He did not accomplish ALL things in that Generation, so imagine how depressed they are after waiting 2000yr for their own Messiah.

Good thing it never said He was supposed to.

I can read the Bible as fulflled me "me"

Huh? Is this a typo LLOJ, I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I would never impinge that view on others since most are still waiting on the Blessed Hope of the "RAPTURE".

What I find funny is that the full preterists believe in a Secret Rapture-Resurrection (which is so easily refuted) just like the Pretribbers. I've noticed other similarities between full preterism and Dispensationalism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Good thing it never said He was supposed to.


Huh? Is this a typo LLOJ, I'm not sure what you're saying here.


What I find funny is that the full preterists believe in a Secret Rapture-Resurrection (which is so easily refuted) just like the Pretribbers. I've noticed other similarities between full preterism and Dispensationalism.

Hi. I view Historicism, Amil, and Dispensationalism in the same way I do Partial Preterism, all Unscriptural. But that can be for another board. Peace.

Everything you wanted to know about Dispensationalism but were afraid to ask, and for good reason!!!!

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/subcats.asp?id=9%7C21

Dispensationalism: Part I - Millennial Views Prior to the Rise of Dispensationalism

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking. So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.............

 

[Nilloc]

Hi. I view Historicism, Amil, and Dispensationalism in the same way I do Partial Preterism, all Unscriptural.

What about Postmill, Historic Premill, Minimill, and Micromill? (Hope I didn't leave one out! LOL.)

But that can be for another board. Peace.

Everything you wanted to know about Dispensationalism but were afraid to ask, and for good reason!!!!

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/ar....asp?id=9%7C21

LOL. That's a great site.

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking. So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.............

We could insert 'full preterism' instead of 'Dispensationalism' in this paragraph and it would still fit perfectly. Full preterists have to run the whole Bible through their 70 A.D. filter and 'interperet' whats left over to their own view. This is done so much so, that many now deny the bodily Resurrection of Christ eek, they deny that Christ's Resurrection was nessessary for Salvation, and many now teach "Covenant Creationism."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bump....interesting thread....

 

[Elife3]

A full Preterist believes that ALL end-time prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. and that the second coming was symbolic. I believe that they are in for a shock and that the Second coming hasn't happened yet but will happen very soon.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A full Preterist believes that ALL end-time prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. and that the second coming was symbolic. I believe that they are in for a shock and that the Second coming hasn't happened yet but will happen very soon.

What do you make of those that believe they are in the millenium now [like the Catholics] or those who believe that half the Olivet Discourse is fulfilled? Is that anymore Biblical?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7255796

 

[Nilloc]

A full Preterist believes that ALL end-time prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. and that the second coming was symbolic.

From the full preterist material I've read, they actually think that about three comings took place in A.D. 70 (though they would deny it). They say Christ came in judgement with the Roman armies, but also came invisibly to invisibly Resurrect the dead, and then came spiritually to indwell believers right after the Temple's destruction, even though Christ was within believers before A.D. 70 (John 14:18, Galatians 2:20). By doing this (as well as other reasons), full preterists have made the A.D. 70 judgement on Jerusalem more significant than Christ's death and Resurrection in A.D. 30.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

From the full preterist material I've read, they actually think that about three comings took place in A.D. 70 (though they would deny it). They say Christ came in judgement with the Roman armies, but also came invisibly to invisibly Resurrect the dead, and then came spiritually to indwell believers right after the Temple's destruction, even though Christ was within believers before A.D. 70 (John 14:18, Galatians 2:20). By doing this (as well as other reasons), full preterists have made the A.D. 70 judgement on Jerusalem more significant than Christ's death and Resurrection in A.D. 30.

Yep. That is also confusing much like that rapture doctrine espoused by dispensationlists [which the Catholic church condemns as a "heresy" ]

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/subcats.asp?id=9|21

Evaluating Premillennialism: Part II - Christ’s Return and the Rapture by Cornelis P. Venema
No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the rapture.

.............Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking. So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.............

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Evidently those Preterists who believe that Christ was talking to "that generation" didn't take into account that even Jesus didn't know when He would be coming back. To Him it could have been in that generation since only God the Father knows when Jesus is returning...Acts 1:6 ~ When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Evidently those Preterists who believe that Christ was talking to "that generation" didn't take in to account that even Jesus didn't know when He would be coming back. To Him it could have been in that generation since only God the Father knows when Jesus is returning...Acts 1:6 ~ When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Yepperz.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47504242#post47504242

Reve 9:15 and were loosed the four messengers, the ones having been made ready into the hour, and day, and month, and year, that they may be killing the third of the men

Reve 14:7 saying in great sound: "Be being fearful! of the God, and be Ye giving! to Him glory, that came the Hour of His judging. And worship Ye! to the One-making the heaven and the land and sea and springs of waters".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bump.....interesting thread. I would say a full preterist is one the believes Armegeddon/Gog-Magog are the same event as that is the only way one could really be a FP. I am not sure of that, but I really wouldn't dismiss those 2 events as being the same until I can harmonize it with the OT more.

I found this commentary interesting as this Messianic also believes in the 2nd coming and Jesus reigning from Jerusalem for a 1000yrs. Messianics are Jewish Christians who should know the OT Scriptures better than us "gentile" Christians, but who knows, as views are all over the map on Revelation. Thoughts?

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/Gog.htm
IS THE GOG/MAGOG WAR THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON?

........Many today teach that the Gog/Magog war will occur before the rise of the Antichrist. According to this view, the Gog/Magog war precedes the final "battle of Armageddon" by several years. But is this understanding accurate? Is the Gog/Magog war a separate event from Armageddon? The goal of this article is to show from the Scriptures that these are not separate events, but rather different names for the same event. ....................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here is the greek for armageddon and gog/magog.

Reve 16:16 And it together-assembling/sun-hgagen <4863> (5627) them into the place, the being called to Hebrew ar-ma-geddwn

Reve 20:8 and he shall be coming out to deceive the nations, the in the four corners of-the land, the gwg <1136> and the ma-gwg <3098>, to-be-together-assembling/sun-agagein <4863> (5629) them into the battle................

The Expositor’s Bible Commentary offers another insight into Armageddon: "It is surprising that no one has suggested taking magedon as deriving from the secondary sense of the Hebrew gadad that means ‘to gather in troops or bands.’ The simple way in Hebrew to make a noun from a verb is to prefix a ma to the verbal form. Thus we have maged, ‘a place of gathering in troops,’ and the suffix o, meaning ‘his,’ yielding ‘his place of gathering troops.’ This is almost equivalent to the expressions in verses 14,16–‘to gather them (the kings and their armies) for the battle on the great day of God Almighty’–and would allude to the prophetic expectation of the gathering of the nations for judgment" (Johnson, p. 552).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do Roman Catholics consider themselves Preterist and how much do they view either the Olivet Discourse or Revelation being fulfilled.
I know for a long time I was referred to as anti-jewish simply because I viewed most of the Bible fulfilled. From what I heard, the Jews would be Full Preterists if the thought JESUS was actually the True Messiah as they say their Messiah will accomplish EVERTHING while He is here. Confusing to say the least. Thoughts?

http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism.html

What is Preterism?

One of the most bizarre interpretations of eschatology is the view that He has already come back! No, I&#8217;m not talking about the Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses who think Jesus returned in 1914. I&#8217;m talking about a viewpoint called Preterism, which teaches that Jesus returned in AD 70 when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem.

The term preterist is Latin for "past." Thus, preterists believe that Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the past. Therefore, they view the major prophetic passages of Scripture, such as the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation, as already fulfilled. Preterism is the exact opposite of Futurism, which views these major biblical prophecies as being fulfilled in the future.

Extreme preterists, who prefer to call themselves "consistent preterists," hold that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. They view this event as the Second Coming of Christ and reject any belief in a future return of Christ. Thus, they deny a future bodily resurrection of believers and a literal return of Christ to earth. Extreme preterists believe we are already in the "New Heavens!" Their view is not only ludicrous, but it is also heretical and places them outside the parameters of biblical orthodoxy.

Moderate preterists, like R.C. Sproul, claim they still believe in a future Second Coming, but still insist on interpreting the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation as basically already fulfilled in the past. As a result, they reject such basic concepts as: Rapture of the Church; Literal Seven Year Tribulation Period; Literal Antichrist; Conversion of Israel; Battle of Armageddon; 1000-year Millennium; Future Binding of Satan.

http://preteristmuseum.blogspot.com/2008/05/do-heretics-have-freedom-of-speech.html


That is why I have laid down my arms and am no longer fighting Hyper-Preterism. I realize now that these men are my "brothers" in the human family, and that as fellow-Americans they have every right to promote their ideologies. Just because I don't agree with certain views, that doesn't make it right for me to prohibit my neighbor's freedom of speech. Then, too, I have to admit that as these doctrines are not cropping up in local assemblies of baptized believers they are no threat to organized Christianity.

 

[squint]

Do Roman Catholics consider themselves Preterist and how much do they view either the Olivet Discourse or Revelation being fulfilled.
I know for a long time I was referred to as anti-jewish simply because I viewed most of the Bible fulfilled. From what I heard, the Jews would be Full Preterists if the thought JESUS was actually the True Messiah as they say their Messiah will accomplish EVERTHING while He is here. Confusing to say the least. Thoughts?

http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism.html

What is Preterism?

One of the most bizarre interpretations of eschatology is the view that He has already come back! No, I’m not talking about the Jehovah’s Witnesses who think Jesus returned in 1914. I’m talking about a viewpoint called Preterism, which teaches that Jesus returned in AD 70 when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem.

The term preterist is Latin for "past." Thus, preterists believe that Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the past. Therefore, they view the major prophetic passages of Scripture, such as the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation, as already fulfilled. Preterism is the exact opposite of Futurism, which views these major biblical prophecies as being fulfilled in the future.

Extreme preterists, who prefer to call themselves "consistent preterists," hold that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. They view this event as the Second Coming of Christ and reject any belief in a future return of Christ. Thus, they deny a future bodily resurrection of believers and a literal return of Christ to earth. Extreme preterists believe we are already in the "New Heavens!" Their view is not only ludicrous, but it is also heretical and places them outside the parameters of biblical orthodoxy.

Moderate preterists, like R.C. Sproul, claim they still believe in a future Second Coming, but still insist on interpreting the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation as basically already fulfilled in the past. As a result, they reject such basic concepts as: Rapture of the Church; Literal Seven Year Tribulation Period; Literal Antichrist; Conversion of Israel; Battle of Armageddon; 1000-year Millennium; Future Binding of Satan.

http://preteristmuseum.blogspot.com/2008/05/do-heretics-have-freedom-of-speech.html


That is why I have laid down my arms and am no longer fighting Hyper-Preterism. I realize now that these men are my "brothers" in the human family, and that as fellow-Americans they have every right to promote their ideologies. Just because I don't agree with certain views, that doesn't make it right for me to prohibit my neighbor's freedom of speech. Then, too, I have to admit that as these doctrines are not cropping up in local assemblies of baptized believers they are no threat to organized Christianity.

Full and partial preterism encompasses a wide range of views including some who have the 2 Gospel theory which includes the premise of tossing out the entire old and new testaments in favor only of Pauline and related epistles BECAUSE they just can't harmonize the scriptures.

Prophecy "continues" to be fulfilled. Jews continue to be reviled and scattered.

There are far better views than either partial or full/hyper preterism as known in their recent historical contexts.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Full and partial preterism encompasses a wide range of views including some who have the 2 Gospel theory which includes the premise of tossing out the entire old and new testaments in favor only of Pauline and related epistles BECAUSE they just can't harmonize the scriptures.

Prophecy "continues" to be fulfilled. Jews continue to be reviled and scattered.

There are far better views than either partial or full/hyper preterism as known in their recent historical contexts.

Greetings and thanks. You could be right.

Revelation touches every book in the Hebrew OT/OC and in fact that is what I mainly use.
Right now I use Exodus [Bondage] and Joshua [Victory].
For example why are they singing the Song of Moses in Reve 15? This must be after the Beast and False prophe are dealt with as notice the horse and rider mentioned in Exodus 15:1

Revelation 15:3 and They are singing the Song of-Mosheh, the bond-servant of the God, and the song of the Lamb-kin, saying, `Great and marvelous the works of Thee, Lord!, the God, the Almighty, just and true the ways of Thee, the king of the [*Ages/Saints] Nations

Exodus 15:1 Then sang Mosheh and the sons of Yisra'el this song unto YHWH, and they spake saying,--"I will sing to YHWH for He is exalted exalted,--The horse and his rider hath He cast into the Sea.
2 My might and melody is Yah, and He became mine salvation/y@shuw'ah.--This is my 'El and I will glorify Him, 'Elohiym of my father and I will set Him on high". '