No Compromise at the Border.

[OldWiseGuy]

He makes stuff up -- day by day.

It's called "brainstorming". Many leaders do it.

Our government is partially shut down over a "wall" that has yet to be defined.

It's shut down because the Dems want open borders.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

It's called "brainstorming". Many leaders do it.

Even if it is "brainstorming," which I doubt - a real leader would brainstorm before demanding the money. Brainstorming should lead to a coherent plan, which is has not.

It's shut down because the Dems want open borders.

Name one Democrat proposal that asks for open borders. No serious Democrat wants open borders. This is a straw man argument perpetuated by the Republicans and right wing media.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Even if it is "brainstorming," which I doubt - a real leader would brainstorm before demanding the money. Brainstorming should lead to a coherent plan, which is has not.

Trump is unwittingly using the biblical principle of "knowing the strength of your army before going to war".

Name one Democrat proposal that asks for open borders. No serious Democrat wants open borders. This is a straw man argument perpetuated by the Republicans and right wing media.

The term "open borders" means come one come all (and please vote Democrat).

 

[Speedwell]

Trump is unwittingly using the biblical principle of "knowing the strength of your army before going to war".



The term "open borders" means come one come all (and please vote Democrat).

Yes it does, and it's important to the Right to make it seem as all who was oppose the Great Wall of Trump are for these "open borders." Of course everyone but Trump's base knows it for a bald-faced lie.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Trump is unwittingly using the biblical principle of "knowing the strength of your army before going to war".

If he knew the strength of his army, he would know it was weak. He has neither the majority of Congress nor the majority of the American people on his side. And, he still does not have a plan.

The term "open borders" means come one come all (and please vote Democrat).

So that is a "no" - you cannot name one proposal?

Again, Democrats are not for open borders.

 

[Belk]

The experts such as the Border Patrol and Homeland Security agree the wall is a good idea.
M-Bob

Show me quotes from the experts in those organizations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...been-broadly-debunked/?utm_term=.867a9d651ae9

 

[Arcangl86]

Name one Democrat proposal that asks for open borders. No serious Democrat wants open borders. This is a straw man argument perpetuated by the Republicans and right wing media.

*waits for somebody to post quote of Hilary talking about her dream of a customs union in North America*

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If he knew the strength of his army, he would know it was weak. He has neither the majority of Congress nor the majority of the American people on his side. And, he still does not have a plan.

I meant that he can't plan the wall until he knows how much money he will get to pay for it.

So that is a "no" - you cannot name one proposal?

It's all there, 'between the lines' of their proposals.

Again, Democrats are not for open borders.

Not only that but sanctuary cities once the illegals are here.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

I meant that he can't plan the wall until he knows how much money he will get to pay for it.

That is not how it works. Usually, you make a proposal, figure out how much it will cost, and ask for that much money. He is doing it backwards.

It's all there, 'between the lines' of their proposals.

I still take that as a "no" you do not have any examples. By all means, pick a Democrat proposal and demonstrate in a cogent fashion how it really means open borders.

Not only that but sanctuary cities once the illegals are here.

Sanctuary cities are a complicated issue that cannot be reduced to a soundbite. On the one hand, we want to enforce immigration laws, on the other hand there are legal concerns regarding whether local police forces have the authority to detain people waiting for ICE and legitimate concerns that fear of deportation will hinder investigation of other crimes.

"The sanctuary cities of the 2000s are part of this American tradition. Some municipalities deliberately lay claim to the title explicitly to protect immigrants. Others simply wish to avoid potential legal problems that might stem from detaining people without full authority. Many, including Los Angeles, cite the difficulty of policing the city when the undocumented are afraid any contact with the authorities could end in deportation."

Why sanctuary cities must exist

Regardless - sanctuary cities are not open borders.

 

[expos4ever]

The term "open borders" means come one come all (and please vote Democrat).

Indeed. And to quote another poster: Name one Democrat proposal that asks for open borders. No serious Democrat wants open borders. This is a straw man argument perpetuated by the Republicans and right wing media.

 

[cow451]

They know the risks. It's all venture capital.

Mexico weighed the risk and decided the offer was a bad one.

 

[GlabrousDory4]

It's all there, 'between the lines' of their proposals.

You want to be careful relying on this type of argument. I mean remember Trump has a few policies that are pretty clearly "between the lines" if you know what I mean.

I understand it is important to mischaracterize the Democrat position as being some free-for-all-open-border-come-one-come-all free-for-all, because the alternative means that maybe, just maybe Dems think the Wall ISN'T an answer to the immigration issues we face.

And that would mean the GOP and Trump and his Base have to learn subtlety and detail. And that isn't why they support Trump. Trump provides simple solutions for simple folks.

And like most simple solutions it doesn't really work for complex problems.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I still take that as a "no" you do not have any examples. By all means, pick a Democrat proposal and demonstrate in a cogent fashion how it really means open borders.

The Dems have no proposals to cite. However, advocacy groups do and have suggested them to the Dems, and in the fine print is amnesty for millions of illegals. This is de facto 'open borders'.

Democrats Are Divided on Immigration Reform - The Atlantic

 

[evoeth]

The Dems have no proposals to cite.

This democrat has a proposal: our current immigration policy is not a high priority and a wall is a distraction, we have plenty of other policy issues we could focus on that would have much larger effects on our country. Income inequality, the housing crisis, the healthcare system, etc... all of these are much higher on the priority list than a wall that won't work and can be defeated by $10 in tools (ropes and ladders for people or slingshot for drugs).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You want to be careful relying on this type of argument. I mean remember Trump has a few policies that are pretty clearly "between the lines" if you know what I mean.

I understand it is important to mischaracterize the Democrat position as being some free-for-all-open-border-come-one-come-all free-for-all, because the alternative means that maybe, just maybe Dems think the Wall ISN'T an answer to the immigration issues we face.

And that would mean the GOP and Trump and his Base have to learn subtlety and detail. And that isn't why they support Trump. Trump provides simple solutions for simple folks.

And like most simple solutions it doesn't really work for complex problems.

But this is not a complex problem.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This democrat has a proposal: our current immigration policy is not a high priority and a wall is a distraction, we have plenty of other policy issues we could focus on that would have much larger effects on our country. Income inequality, the housing crisis, the healthcare system, etc... all of these are much higher on the priority list than a wall that won't work and can be defeated by $10 in tools (ropes and ladders for people or slingshot for drugs).

How do they get across my fence with an armed security guard, and an attack dog, staring them in the face?

 

[GlabrousDory4]

But this is not a complex problem.

You're making my point for me.

(Here's an article using ONLY CONSERVATIVE SOURCES showing how the Wall isn't the answer: What Happened When A Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall)

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The Dems have no proposals to cite. However, advocacy groups do and have suggested them to the Dems, and in the fine print is amnesty for millions of illegals. This is de facto 'open borders'.

Democrats Are Divided on Immigration Reform - The Atlantic

Ill help you out. Here is their platform plank on immigration:
Immigration Reform - Democrats

They are looking for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients - those, who through no action of their own, were brought over illegally as children by their parents. This is not blanket amnesty. 75% of Republicans favor this, so I guess by your logic, Republicans favor open boarders?

Americans Oppose Border Walls, Favor Dealing With DACA

And advocacy groups are not the Democrat party.

 

[Arcangl86]

But this is not a complex problem.

Sure it is. How will a wall stop overstays? How will a wall stop stuff being smuggled in through ports of entry? How will a wall stop drones or tunnels?

 

[GlabrousDory4]

How do they get across my fence with an armed security guard, and an attack dog, staring them in the face?

Now imagine if you also PAID THEM MONEY when they got over your fence and they did a lot of the yardwork for you.

So you put the fence and the dogs and you still want your yardwork done cheaply.

Let's add a new wrinkle: your neighbors are busy inviting these folks in, giving them money to do their yards and they walk them over to your house to do your lawn as well.

That's America circa 2019.