NIV...Do you think it contains error?

[TrustAndObey]

For studying what? I don't study the Bible. I spend my every moment studying the Master of the Universe endeavoring to get to know him better. Most of my biblical memory is based on the KJV. I love the clarity of the NIV, the NKJV, and the Message. But I do not base what I believe about the Master on any one version or verse. In the end, if you are a good student which version you use does not matter.

Every time I pick up the Word of God I learn something new, even if I've read that book/verse several times. I find things that verify and strengthen my beliefs in God and the teachings of our church. In fact, I've not found anything that speaks contrary to what the Adventist church teaches.

Matthew 4:4 - But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The book of Proverbs is one of my favorites and it cements the fact that a person can never stop learning from God's Word.

 

[SassySDA]

Amen and AMEN, sista.

I remember responding to someone in the anti-catholicism thread, who said that if I attended regularly (catholic mass, I guess), at the end of three years I would have heard the whole bible.

THREE YEARS? I'd STARVE to death, spiritually. My bible is next to me, or very close by at all times. I never know when the urge to do a study, or just read from psalms will strike me.

I couldn't imagine not reading it or studying from it now. I went for years not even picking a bible up....Praise God, now I can't lay it down.

 

[StormyOne]

How do you pick which one says the correct thing?

Its not a matter of correct or incorrect, but a clearer rendering in my opinion. When I took greek my instructor at that time told me if you got enough translations (different ones) you could get a fairly good idea of the ways a text could be translated....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Its not a matter of correct or incorrect, but a clearer rendering in my opinion. When I took greek my instructor at that time told me if you got enough translations (different ones) you could get a fairly good idea of the ways a text could be translated....

I've found the opposite to be true in my case. When two or more versions say two or more completely different things I become confused. I'm silly like that.

To each his own I guess. I have decided to start studying Greek and Hebrew.

 

[SassySDA]

I've found the opposite to be true in my case. When two or more versions say two or more completely different things I become confused. I'm silly like that.

To each his own I guess. I have decided to start studying Greek and Hebrew.

You GO girl!

 

[TrustAndObey]

Well majority doesn't always "rule".

Matthew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I figure I have to eventually learn Hebrew and Greek to know what the Bible really says without any doubts.

But I'm serious, if everybody had the 100 % correct translation on every verse; the exact same Bible in their hands, they still wouldn't agree on what it says.

That's what's so great about our own forum, we don't have to argue with anyone about our doctrine.

 

[TrustAndObey]

That's the funny thing about truth...it doesn't grow old (it's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow)...nor is it decided by popular opinion.

History has shown that the majority is always wrong in spiritual matters.

 

[StormyOne]

I've found the opposite to be true in my case. When two or more versions say two or more completely different things I become confused. I'm silly like that.

To each his own I guess. I have decided to start studying Greek and Hebrew.

If they appear to say different things then you must consider the possibility that there is more than one way to translate a text. That will be the first lesson in greek. Example: The man's house. or The house of the man. Or The house the man owns. Which is correct? Three different ways, all capturing the same idea... a man has a house.....

I wish you well with your studies.....

 

[StormyOne]

Well majority doesn't always "rule".

Matthew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I figure I have to eventually learn Hebrew and Greek to know what the Bible really says without any doubts.

But I'm serious, if everybody had the 100 % correct translation on every verse; the exact same Bible in their hands, they still wouldn't agree on what it says.

That's what's so great about our own forum, we don't have to argue with anyone about our doctrine.

What do you mean when you say you don't have to argue with anyone about our doctrine?

 

[TrustAndObey]

What do you mean when you say you don't have to argue with anyone about our doctrine?

We're all Adventists, why would we argue?

 

[StormyOne]

We're all Adventists, why would we argue?

we would discuss because we don't all believe the very same thing across the board.... at least I thought that's what happens when discussion occurs... I could be wrong...I have observed adventists argue over a great many things.... but I have digressed....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Of course we'll disagree on certain topics, but not normally about the fundamental beliefs that make a person want to attend an Adventist church in the first place.

You might see Adventists question whether or not to keep the feasts, or whether Michael the Archangel was Christ, but I have never had a fellow Adventist tell me that they don't believe we're a remnant....cut from the same cloth as Christ's teachings on earth.

Subjects that get debated do not affect the fundamental beliefs of the church. They are the fundamental basis for our church.

As an Adventist, you already know that there are many detractors out there. Questioning our fundamental beliefs is expected from people not of our faith. However, those within it, at least the ones I've fellowshipped with, know that we cannot get distracted because we have huge tasks at hand. We already agreed individually to follow the fundamental beliefs when we became members......therefore arguing with EACH OTHER over them is counterproductive.

We have some groups that read only the Old Testament, and therefore hate what our church stands for. We have some groups that only read the New Testament, and therefore hate what our church stands for. Our church believes the entire Bible to be the Word of God and I don't know of any others like us. To me, that is absolutely worth defending.

A year ago I wouldn't have believed how much hatred there is toward the Adventist church. It has only been within the last 8 months that I've experienced it personally. As such, I am very careful who I call friend or foe.

I have to compare what people say to see whether or not they uphold the doctrines they agreed to uphold. Honestly, how other way is there to tell?

 

[SassySDA]

We're all Adventists, why would we argue?

There should BE no reason for arguing. We should be able to discuss things among brethren without arguing.

I agree though, with what you said about there still being those who wouldn't agree...it astounds me how many different ways people can read scripture and come up with totally different meaning.

 

[StormyOne]

Thanks for your responses.... in all honesty, I was raised to study and question everything, even fundamental beliefs. Not everyone is comfortable with that...

Perhaps it will be best for now if I just lurk... less threatening that way and you can get to know me better....

 

[Cliff2]

There should BE no reason for arguing. We should be able to discuss things among brethren without arguing.

I agree though, with what you said about there still being those who wouldn't agree...it astounds me how many different ways people can read scripture and come up with totally different meaning.

It often happens because the person will want to think that they have found a new stream of truth when in fact in most case they have not.

Truth can always afford to be investigated. take the Sabbath, the investigative judgement, the state of the dead and all our beliefs. I am sure that we are not going to come up with them as being false.

They have stood the test of time and will continue to do so.

 

[StormyOne]

If you think the way you always thought, then you will do what you have always done. If you do what you have always done, you will get what you always got. If you get what you have always got, you will think the way you always thought....

 

[TrustAndObey]

If they appear to say different things then you must consider the possibility that there is more than one way to translate a text. That will be the first lesson in greek. Example: The man's house. or The house of the man. Or The house the man owns. Which is correct? Three different ways, all capturing the same idea... a man has a house.....

I wish you well with your studies.....

No, now wait, I'm talking about versions that say completely different things....not versions that say the same thing in different ways.

When Austin (PaleHorse) and I bought our Bibles we decided it would be a good idea to buy a parallel Bible with more than one translation. I'm glad we did it, because now I see the reason for a lot of different beliefs, but I'm also disappointed at the same time because I don't like having the NIV anymore....not after I've compared it with the KJV (and studied the translations).

Don't get me wrong, I am by no means an expert on the Hebrew of Greek. I'm in Hebrew 101 at the moment (not literally). I'm teaching myself how to look up Hebrew words, etc. If anyone is interested, this is a pretty good source that lets you do that: www.blueletterbible.org.

The first Hebrew word I studied was nephesh. That word is translated to soul and dead body....etc, etc. You have to get inside the mind of the translators sometimes.

Here's an interesting story....this past year my 11 year-old-old (10 at the time) decided he wanted a Bible for "Festivus". I searched the world over for a youth KJV Bible. The local Christian bookstore didn't have one and the cashier told me "youths prefer the NIV, or..........". So I said, "so you don't have ANY KJV Bibles that are geered toward adolescent studies?" And she said "Nope." I finally just bought him a regular KJV Bible but I had to get him one that has denomination margins/references in it. And guess what, the denominational references certainly weren't Adventist (Boy you have to watch that part like a hawk when buying a Bible).

Since then I have found one on the internet.

HOWEVER, I decided recently that I want a new Bible, but now that I know what I would prefer--I'm going to be very particular. Once you've had a Bible you don't like using to study from, you look very carefully for one you know you would like.

I want (short list...lol) A KJV version Bible, large print, no denomination margins/references, space for taking notes, Jesus' AND God's words in red, hardback. Not too much to ask for eh? (In fact, I could do without the space for notes if the other things I want are available). But, alas, this Bible doesn't seem to exist!! Unless I want a new age translation or a leather one (uggggh). I'm serious, I've found all the bells and whistles I want if I'm willing to take the NIV, NASB, or..... During my extensive searches I always clicked on "KJV". It always seems to have the shortest list of ANY of the translations.

They're weeding it out completely it seems.

(For the record, I found ONE Bible that would do, but it's leather. Other than that I have found a couple of other ones I'd be "okay" with, but it's next to impossible to get away from denominational references...and that's the thing I want the least). I like to reference and research similar verses on my own, I don't want a denomination (even my own) telling me which verses go with others!!!

I think it would be awesome (now I'm rambling) if there was a site you could go to and order a custom Bible. Click on all the things you WANT to get the exact Bible you're searching for. Since the Bible consistently remains the #1 selling book, I know whoever could do that would make a FORTUNE (hint, hint to anyone wanting to start a business...I'd be your first customer)!

Anyway, I told that story to illustrate that the KJV is suddenly disappearing and it scares me.

I shouldn't try to post before 7 a.m. I've decided. I've confused MYSELF even.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Thanks for your responses.... in all honesty, I was raised to study and question everything, even fundamental beliefs. Not everyone is comfortable with that...

Perhaps it will be best for now if I just lurk... less threatening that way and you can get to know me better....

Stormy, nobody is asking you to leave. I don't consider you a "threat" at all. I am saying this out of love and respect--I see you more as a one-sided debater. It's awesome that you question everything but when you question our beliefs (and why we believe them) then it's only fair if you lay your viewpoint and references on the table too. Otherwise, and you have to see it from our point of view, it is just you seemingly telling us we're wrong. That's not debate and it's getting us nowhere!

You mentioned us getting into a snit about you questioning a few things. That's just it, I haven't really seen you agree with anyone yet about anything. A defensive wall has been established and if you want it to get broken down, it's very simple. Give us the same opportunity to question YOU.

My favorite quote....NOBODY CARES HOW MUCH YOU KNOW UNTIL THEY KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CARE.

And oh yeah, I'm going to mention it again, you can't come in here without the icon and question everything, even if it's innocent in nature...it's against the rules.

Until we can reach some agreement on the RULES, I think it is probably best not to have any discussions. That's just MY opinion though.

It's days like today that I really miss coffee.

Stormy, I don't like fighting with anyone, and I'm sorry that our initial conversations have been somewhat head-buttish. I would like to start over and see if we can reach some common ground?? What do you say?

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, nobody is asking you to leave. I don't consider you a "threat" at all. I am saying this out of love and respect--I see you more as a one-sided debater. It's awesome that you question everything but when you question our beliefs (and why we believe them) then it's only fair if you lay your viewpoint and references on the table too. Otherwise, and you have to see it from our point of view, it is just you seemingly telling us we're wrong. That's not debate and it's getting us nowhere!

You mentioned us getting into a snit about you questioning a few things. That's just it, I haven't really seen you agree with anyone yet about anything. A defensive wall has been established and if you want it to get broken down, it's very simple. Give us the same opportunity to question YOU.

My favorite quote....NOBODY CARES HOW MUCH YOU KNOW UNTIL THEY KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CARE.

And oh yeah, I'm going to mention it again, you can't come in here without the icon and question everything, even if it's innocent in nature...it's against the rules.

Until we can reach some agreement on the RULES, I think it is probably best not to have any discussions. That's just MY opinion though.

It's days like today that I really miss coffee.

Stormy, I don't like fighting with anyone, and I'm sorry that our initial conversations have been somewhat head-buttish. I would like to start over and see if we can reach some common ground?? What do you say?

I didn't say I was leaving... I said I would lurk about. Cliff mentioned that he does not have an icon, he however is accepted because of his history here I presume.... I have shared what I believe and if you review my posts I have shared why I disagree with certain things... nonetheless, I don't fight, so no need to stress about that....

have a good day....

peace

 

[TrustAndObey]

Keep in mind though that Cliff never debates....therefore, even if he weren't Adventist (he is), he certainly hasn't broken any rules.

You have a good day too!!