Nihilism

[Nooj]

Do you know of any nihilists who have stopped being nihilists? I too, can't see any way out of nihilism, and I'd like to read from those who have.

 

[Suggestion Box]

edit: crap so this is a really old thread... shoulda checked the date. oh well.

My biggest problem with it is that it's probably not true.

i mean yeah trademark modern Christianity is probly way off the mark. don't start by contemplating the validity of Christianity, start with contemplating the validity of God, or at least the idea that there's something out there that can't be understood by our logic. truth is always clouded by the limits of human logic.

part of the problems of nihilism lie in linguistics, too. our logic can only go so far... just cause you can't imagine a possible world where purpose exists doesn't mean there is none.

you're not the first to come to this obstacle- getting past nihilism has been a feat philosophers have been trying to do for centuries. they've come up with all sorts of fun stuff.

existentialism (expands on subjectivity vs. objectivity)
eastern pantheism (the ultimate purpose is some sort of enlightened consciousness, a unity with everything else in the cosmos)
New Age (altered consciousness stemming from evolution of humans)
postmodernism (not truth, but meaning)
Theism (there's a God with a personality. most theists believe in an afterlife in which we will have better understanding of things.)

ever read 'The Universe Next Door' by James Sire? there is some Christian bias, but he uses a lot of non-christian helper-authors to define worldviews. there's some good info in there, even if you don't agree with his counterarguments to each worldview.

one thing's for sure, and is common to all these worldviews. there is much that human logic cannot come to a consensus on. that's why we have paradoxes. the only hope you have for purpose is to admit the limits of logic and accept that you're going to have to assume something. the good news is that, according to many worldviews (religious and non-religious alike), each of has the ability to acquire a higher level of understanding ability.

if you can attain this higher level of understanding, you may be able to figure a way out of nihilism. but first you have to assume that you don't currently have that kind of understanding, but that you can attain that somehow. this is a perfectly fine assumption- after all, assumptions are required before we can even start to logic. another equally valid assumption is nihilism, in which case there's no where to go.

finding a higher level of understanding cannot be done by using your current level of understanding. you need outside sources.

until you figure out what it takes to figure out purpose, your purpose can be 'to figure all this out'.

 

[Nooj]

Thanks mate, that did make me chuckle for about a second.

 

[Shabby]

Nihilists are silly.

 

[dms1972]

Old thread I know, but someone asked if there was anyone who had been a Nihilist and left Nihilism.

There is one person I have heard of - J. Budziszewski

He went from Christianity to Nihilism, then back to Christianity.

 

[True Scotsman]

I can find nothing on which to hang a world view. The best certainties are either too flimsy or too hard to pin down. The best reasoning is often simply wrong, so I can only rely on it in small ways. All the knowledge I have is on its very best days merely provisional, and my attitude is frequently too melancholy for me to take up any hedonism, no matter how refined. Nihilism looks like my only realistic option. Someone show me I'm wrong. Please.


Before anyone brings it up, I have no interest in simply embracing any beliefs simply because they're pleasant. I must also have a good reason for thinking they're true, and christianity just doesn't fit the bill.

How about studying a philosophy which is fully integrated and which also has the advantage of being true. How about looking into one that offers a rational metaphysics, an objective theory of concepts and a rational ethics?

 

[dms1972]

Thomas Reid perhaps?

I don't see any reason for anyone to feel forced towards nihilism.

I agree with what was said about finding purpose for the meantime in figuring it out, or even taking a break from figuring it all out.


What was suggested regarding a psychologist is a good call to me also, as meaning is amongst other things relational, and we all have a will-to-meaning (Victor Frankl), therefore the psychological option that was suggested earlier there is no harm in considering.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy nowadays may help to rebuild coping mechanisms, some of which are not pathological, but generally doesn't seem to go into deep issues.

If you do read, read what you as someone searching for meaning think is a safe bet, but if it seems to be, nonsense, badly written, or very turgid, or you don't understand it then it might be better to set it aside.

Other places to look might be the writings of Christopher Lasch.


"Don't go too far in your books and overgrasp yourself. Alas, you have no time left to persue your diary, to read over [some] history: come, don't flatter and deceive yourself; look to the main chance, to the end and design of reading, and mind life more than notion: I say, if you have a kindness for your person drive at the practice and help yourself for that is in your own power."

 

[Received]

Nihilism is self-negating. Nothing has meaning is a meaningful statement. The question then becomes which type of meaningful life will you live -- which by definition puts you out of the nihilist camp.

Nietzsche said, "I'm a nihilist who has overcome his nihilism." I take this to mean he believes in no objective meaning or values, but has overcome this by positing his own meaning and values. Even in a world with objective meaning, the most important meaning is subjective, what Kierkegaard called "subjective truth."

 

[FireDragon76]

The Skeptics have been the bad guys of philosophy, and they got their laughs by countering philosophical arguments with completely different, equally plausible arguments, thereby demonstrating the unreliability of using reason alone to get a handle on big questions.
But yeah, meaning would be fine.

Keep searching... go with your intuition, if logic fails you.

 

[VProud]

I believe there is no ultimate purpose. I also believe that there does not need to be an ultimate purpose.
Why do we 'need' a reason?

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

I believe there is no ultimate purpose. I also believe that there does not need to be an ultimate purpose.
Why do we 'need' a reason?

To make something of value out of the time you have.

 

[VProud]

To make something of value out of the time you have.

I don't feel like I need to have intrinsic and definitive cosmic value.
Personal value is enough for me.

 

[juvenissun]

I can find nothing on which to hang a world view. The best certainties are either too flimsy or too hard to pin down. The best reasoning is often simply wrong, so I can only rely on it in small ways. All the knowledge I have is on its very best days merely provisional, and my attitude is frequently too melancholy for me to take up any hedonism, no matter how refined. Nihilism looks like my only realistic option. Someone show me I'm wrong. Please.


Before anyone brings it up, I have no interest in simply embracing any beliefs simply because they're pleasant. I must also have a good reason for thinking they're true, and christianity just doesn't fit the bill.

One true value of knowledge is that it makes one to see solid relationships among everything. Everything is linked to everything else.

You do not have that understanding and vision. That takes you to the Nihilism. Study something related to material, the real substance. That might help you to get out of it.

If you have trouble to link two of anything together, I might try it for you.

-------

I have a feeling of being stupid by reply to someone who might not exist any more.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

I don't feel like I need to have intrinsic and definitive cosmic value.
Personal value is enough for me.

That is intrinsic and cosmic value! There is no border between micro and macro.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Cosmic purpose for human beings is just a product of human conceit. I'm not a nihilist, however.

Our lives have purpose in and for ourselves, and not because we create that purpose out of pure whim, but because we as human beings have a conditional and "contingent" existence. There are values that really matter to our existence because of what we are as functioning human beings. Our well-being depends on such values, and these values require us to act with purpose in mind or we will fail to achieve them.

So, while human purposes are to an extent an act of creation, since they must be conceptualized and chosen, they do not matter in any arbitrary way. Some purposes will be beneficial and appropriate to one's nature, and others might actually be neutral or self-destructive.

Viewed in this way, when we come up with purposes for ourselves, they may matter to us in a way that isn't simply some "arbitrary" choice.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[dms1972]

What can Nihilism promise?

Seek a set of Noble Truths. Particularly one that includes the principle of Loving Kindness. Meaning is out there.

Philosophy was never the mere parlour game it has become in the era of the internet, but rather was a search for wisdom, supported by the consolations of philosophy.
​

What consolation has Nihilism ever offered?

Sure some with the right amount of ballast find they can function for a while, but then where?

"A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."

from An Essay on Criticism - Alexander Pope