New York Socialists Rallying For Palestinians Day After Terrorists Killed Over 200 Israelis

Ana the Ist

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The best defense is an unannounced attack. :rolleyes:

Whether it was a close call or not, Israel has not given back the land they illegally occupied 50+ years ago.

Not sure what you mean....

Here's what Israel possessed after the 6 day war...

6day.png


Here's a literal day by day breakdown of what gained each day during that war...

6daygains.png


I'm assuming this is the official map that you're going by today....


israel-map.gif



As you can see....they gave back more land than they kept. I say "gave back" because they did so willingly. It didn't require mass murder. It's an extremely rare historical event....as it's difficult to find examples of such significant amounts of territory fought over, won, and then ceded to the same people who were trying to kill such a generous nation in order to possess.

What more do you think they should give to their enemies?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Gave it back to what? As people keep correctly pointing out, there is no Palestinian state. Israel left the open air prison of Gaza that Israel (and Egypt) controls the 4 gates to, but under those conditions, Gaza cannot determine its own situation or fate. An actual two-state solution, based on 1967 borders with land-swaps, would be a huge advance, but that's not what the stateless people of Gaza have.


That's the most recent data on support for a 2 state solution in Palestine. It's only about 25%.

Supporting a position that neither the people of Israel nor the people of Palestine support is just political convenience. It's a position one takes when one need not actually deal with the political or physical reality of the position.

It's frustrating to see this on the political left in so many issues....and it's entirely transparent. The Democratic Party and its base tend to drop these positions the moment they have to actually deal with their consequences.

Examples are abound. Trans bathrooms and sports teams and teaching little children they can swap genders like ice cream flavors used to enjoy full support on the left. Then their daughters were getting flashed by men in wigs, their children beaten by men in their sports, and their children traumatized by overzealous teachers.


Then suddenly their minds change.

How about bail reform? It gets enacted...criminals are arrested then turned loose on the streets....


Illegal immigration....once Democratic stronghold sanctuary cities get a taste...



I don't understand why Democrats or the political left in general does this so often....but it's as if they support decisions that....

1. Are superficially morally fashionable.
Or perhaps...

2. Adopted without any concern for the consequences, possibly because those consequences are considered not their problem.

While I'm not trying to single you out...I do wonder why you think a 2 state solution would be "good" at this point and whom exactly it would be "good" for. The Palestinians? I don't think they'll be able to remove the extremists in their ranks who want to kill all Jewish people worldwide and therefore, I don't see any sovereign Palestinian state existing. If Israel were to allow them to control their own borders and trade...events like that of October 7th would happen yearly. Eventually, Israel would tire of the constant threat of terrorism and destroy their neighbor.

I mean....it's been a long long time now. It's clear Palestine isn't calling it quits voluntarily. Palestinians would be better off as citizens of another nation in just 1 or two generations.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I completely agree. Our aid is enough for now. We definitely don't need to get further involved unless other Arabic nations do.

And yes Israel should accept nothing but unconditional surrender.

The problem they face is that to completely remove the Palestinians from the area would most likely cause other Arabic countries to get involved. Which then draws us further in.
There is a common thread though in all of this opposition to Israel. And I'm afraid it isn't in just simple opposition to some things Israel has done as a country.

Also, I forgot to point out...

There's about 14-15 million Palestinians in the world. Only around 4-5 million live in Palestine. Almost across the board....those living in Palestine are worse off than the other 10 million.

Those who support Palestine are constantly aggrieved at the conditions of the Palestinians living in Palestine. Those conditions are imposed by Israel (its not inaccurate nor unfair to say this) and they are imposed because the people living in Palestine dream of a world where Israel is destroyed and Jews flee from them all across the globe. They use whatever aid and sympathy they can dredge up from the rest of the world to arm themselves in hope of killing Israeli civilians and winning a war they lost long ago.

It may seem like a very extreme solution to say the nation should be dissolved and the people expelled to foreign lands....but it's really not. 3/4ths of Palestinians are living abroad and though they may still bear a lot of ill will and antisemitic beliefs towards the Jewish people....I daresay you'll find more that have let it go and moved onto bettering their lives than you will in Palestine.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Not illegal when the UN recognized it the nation of Israel.
There is a difference between 1949 (the admission of Israel to the UN as a state with certain borders) and 1967 (the illegal occupation of land beyond those borders).
 
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Aldebaran

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rjs330

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There is a difference between 1949 (the admission of Israel to the UN as a state with certain borders) and 1967 (the illegal occupation of land beyond those borders).
Which has occured as a result of actions of the Palestinians and other Arabs in the area.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Which has occured as a result of actions of the Palestinians and other Arabs in the area.
Oh, so we can justify illegal acts like that? That will be useful for any Hamas defense lawyers, assuming any trials ensue.
 
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rjs330

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Oh, so we can justify illegal acts like that? That will be useful for any Hamas defense lawyers, assuming any trials ensue.
Assuming. I wouldn't hold my breath though. The question would of course be if they were actually illegal acts based upon the circumstances.
 
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