New to CF, looking for answers.

[beofthesamemind]

Hello, everyone. I am brand new to CF. I have never joined any sort of Christian community whatsoever. I am a 25 year old male. I have always considered myself a 'spiritual' person in that I have always believed there is something bigger out there, but have never been sure of what I believe. In the last year or so, I have broken a drug addiction and, as a result, have run into depression at times, not just in relation to breaking the habit, though. There are several other things I will not bore you with at this time. What I wanted to address is my increasing interest in Christianity and there are questions that I'm hoping to find practical answers to. First and foremost, do you believe that God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent AND omniscient? And how does this coincide with all the world's evil and imperfections and wrong-doings? This is really the best way I know to ask the question, and some valid answers to the best of your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. How can one explain why an all-powerful and all-good God would allow, for example, innocent children to suffer and starve? I have felt recently at times that I am on the verge of being a true believer. But I must have answers to certain questions. Thanks in advance for any answers given.

 

[zaksmummy]

Welcome to CF, this area is always a good place to start If you are having problems with depression there is also a forum for that further down the main forum, you could visit that area too if you need some support in that area.

Now to your question

If you read the bible, this will help you in your search for God, after all, we believe that it is Gods loving instruction to us as his creation.

In the first book - Genesis, it talks about how the world was made and how the first people - Adam and Eve were deceived and brought sin into the world.

Sin is basically all of the wrong things that we do as people. God is all the things you stated above, but his is also Holy, and perfect, he cannot stand to have any sin near him.

Human history shows us that it is people that causes the problems in the world. It is people that cause wars, it is peoples own greed that cause others to be badly treated, or starve, it is we who abuse and mistreat our fellow man.

Gods remedy to this situation was to send Jesus to die for us so that we could mend the relationship with God, and as Christians we then are God hands and feet on the earth, mending it, for want of a better phrase.

I hope this helps to start you off. Others will add to what I have said, but the best thing to do is read the bible and pray, and ask God himself to reveal himself to you. If at first you dont succeed, try, try, try again. Jesus said "seek first the kingdom of God", so keep seeking until you have found him.

 

[Key]

Hello and Welcome to CF. I am glad to see you are taking an interest in Christianity.

To answer your question, "God is The Creator of All" and while we consider God to be all powerful, we as humans, finite creatures, truly have no idea what that entails. So, we say his scope is limitless, and we use all powerful and all loving, as terms to simplify down Gods qualities to make them graspable. It is never a good or practical thing to build premises off a 'simplified versions' as there will always be problems, put loosely, things will get lost in translation and concept.

However, to go about your 'problem of evil', question. The simple version of that story is that God has given us this world, to do what we want with it. If we decided to make it an evil place, God has given us this freedom to do so. We have the choice in our lives to overcome our problems or succumb to them, to do the right thing or to do the wrong thing.

God has given us the grace to choose to follow him, be like him, and embrace his teachings, or to reject him. When humans reject the teachings of God and Jesus we turn upon ourselves, and make our world a worse place.

The next question might be: Could God stop this. and the answer to that question is, Yes, he could, and in the past he has, when we flooded the world, destroyed the Tower of Babel. However, God has made it clear that he will not destroy the world anymore, he will not bring down fire and brimstone upon us, He will leave the door open to us, though his son Jesus, and while God might not like what we have done with our world, he loved us to enough to allow us to make the choices we have with it.

Does that answer your questions?

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Wasn't God's promise just to not destroy the earth by floods?

Genesis 9:11-And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

There wasn't exactly any stipulations that God wouldn't choose to set the earth aflame and burn it to oblivion, if only to recreate it anew. Or any other number of possibilities, since God is, as you said, all powerful.

 

[razeontherock]

Hi OP! (botsm?) We have explored this "omnibenevolence" idea here much, and found it false. There are many many Scriptures to prove otherwise. God is love, but He is also a God of wrath, and Judgment. As far as all-powerful or omnipotence, the Biblical statement is He is the MOST powerful. There are some things he will NOT do, (lie, fail, change) which in some sense could be said to limit His Power. Even the omniscient thing has been challenged, and it could be said that He knew Prophetic utterances because He caused those significant events to occur.

I encourage you to be intellectually honest with yourself, and I'm here to attest that G-d is not above scrutiny! This is a good time to seek the Lord, hope we can help,

Ray

 

[Joveia]

First and foremost, do you believe that God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent AND omniscient? And how does this coincide with all the world's evil and imperfections and wrong-doings? This is really the best way I know to ask the question, and some valid answers to the best of your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. How can one explain why an all-powerful and all-good God would allow, for example, innocent children to suffer and starve? I have felt recently at times that I am on the verge of being a true believer. But I must have answers to certain questions. Thanks in advance for any answers given.

Hi beofthesamemind,

I think one of the Bible's answers to suffering is that God, even though He is all powerful, cannot get rid of suffering as long as there is wrongdoing (sin) in the world:

Rom 5:12: When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

So one answer to the issue is this: God's power is limited in a key way. God can get rid of all suffering in the world BUT to do so God has to get rid of sin. If you have a) sin, then no matter what, God cannot avoid b) suffering.

You might ask, how do our sins cause the wide variety of seemingly unconnected evils of the world? That is something that is hard to explain. But the fundamental idea, I believe, could theoretically get God 'off the hook'.

Another practical thing, something that has helped me deal with this doubt, is from the Book of Job. Job has just been suffering hugely because God allowed him to suffer, and finally he says that it's because God hates him. Elihu's response (who doesn't get criticised by God like Job's friends) is fascinating:

Job 33:12: "But you are wrong, and I will show you why. For God is greater than any human being."

So if God looked on us and could easily get rid of evil without having to first get rid of our sin, if God could take away suffering right now with no problems with that idea, then God would be just like us. God would be favouring people, lacking in empathy, and basically not behaving like the ultimate loving parent the Bible says He is (John 15:13).

So can we really believe that God is no greater than us? That God is like us with our frailties, inconsistencies, hypocrisies, issues, etc? If we have faith that a God who made the universe, if anything, is good (Gen 18:25), then emotionally we can find the ability to believe God could defend Himself, if accused, regarding what goes on in the world.

 

[Key]

There wasn't exactly any stipulations that God wouldn't choose to set the earth aflame and burn it to oblivion, if only to recreate it anew. Or any other number of possibilities, since God is, as you said, all powerful.

That would be called "Revelations" and that will be the final cleaning cycle if you get my drift.

God Bless

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Which only seems to prove my point that God was being purposely clear in saying it would not flood the earth and then we have a prophet saying God will basically burn the earth to cinders and reconstitute it from what I recall. At the very least, I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less, with such a clear qualification of only an absence of flood waters killing even innocent children. God never said it wouldn't do things like the plagues in Egypt or the taking back of Canaan, particularly the call to "genocide" against the Amalekites. At least God was "clear", right?

 

[Emmy]

Dear beofthesamemind. Yes, God is Almighty, and God is Love. God wants our love, freely given and no strings attached. God gave us His ten Commandments, (loving advice) and Jesus gave us two Commandments, which contain all what God gave us in His ten Commandments. " Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. Also: Love our neighbour, ( all others, friend or foe) as we love ourselves." That is straightforward and easy to remember. A good way to start: Treat all we know and meet as we would like to be treated: kindly, helping hands and welcoming looks, understanding the other`s view and not always insist that we know better, being ready fo forgive, and considerrate. That is what God wants from us, loving sons and daughters, letting the world see whom we love. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy to share with each other, and the Holy Spirit will empower us to become more loving and caring. Jesus promised us: " Ask and ye will receive," we will have God`s approval and His blessings. We will stumble and fail often, but God will forgive us as we forgive others. Everything we say, or do, will have love of some kind, and we will slowly, BUT SURLY change into children which our Heavenly Father approves of. As for those starving children, and all other sad happenings in this imperfect world, many men and women, Christian and caring, are doing many Good and HELPFUL deeds, in the world at large. We are God`s hands and Christians especially, are the only representatives which God has. Christ our Leader died that all might live, He is our Saviour, and Whosoever will May Come. Jesus is the Way and He is waiting to lead us back to God. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[ebia]

Which only seems to prove my point that God was being purposely clear in saying it would not flood the earth and then we have a prophet saying God will basically burn the earth to cinders and reconstitute it from what I recall. At the very least, I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less, with such a clear qualification of only an absence of flood waters killing even innocent children. God never said it wouldn't do things like the plagues in Egypt or the taking back of Canaan, particularly the call to "genocide" against the Amalekites. At least God was "clear", right?

You miss the point of what the Noah story is about. Genesis 1-2 tells us how God intends his creation, Genesis 3-5 explains why the creation isn't like that, Genesis 6-9 (Noah) explains why God cannot fix that by force. And so the scene is set, the background is explained, for the story of the bible proper, the story of what God is doing to put the world to rights, to begin in chapter 12 with the call of Abraham.

 

[Key]

Which only seems to prove my point that God was being purposely clear in saying it would not flood the earth and then we have a prophet saying God will basically burn the earth to cinders and reconstitute it from what I recall. At the very least, I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less, with such a clear qualification of only an absence of flood waters killing even innocent children. God never said it wouldn't do things like the plagues in Egypt or the taking back of Canaan, particularly the call to "genocide" against the Amalekites. At least God was "clear", right?

Do you ever get tired of being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative?

God Bless

 

[ToHoldNothing]

You miss the point of what the Noah story is about. Genesis 1-2 tells us how God intends his creation, Genesis 3-5 explains why the creation isn't like that, Genesis 6-9 (Noah) explains why God cannot fix that by force. And so the scene is set, the background is explained, for the story of the bible proper, the story of what God is doing to put the world to rights, to begin in chapter 12 with the call of Abraham.

I would think theologically you would say God chooses not to fix the problem by force, not that God cannot. Then again, this derails the thread into the debate of God's power/omnipotence/sovereignty anyway.

 

[ebia]

I would think theologically you would say God chooses not to fix the problem by force, not that God cannot.

I would say that you cannot drive a wedge between what God can do and what God does do.

Then again, this derails the thread into the debate of God's power/omnipotence/sovereignty anyway.

If a question is based upon a faulty premise then one cannot adequately address the question without dealing with that faulty premise. But the openning question is about God's power/omnipotence/sovereignty.

Also, you are in breach of forum specific rules in engaging in this thread.

 

[ebia]

The Noah story is your answer to that question. God cannot wipe out evil and suffering by force because it runs right down the middle of everyone - even "righteous" Noah. So the only way God can redeem and heal us and all creation is the long and messy job of working in and through his broken people and to be with them, agonising with them, until eventually that comes to fulfillment.