New Statement of Purpose

[Raimi Stranger]

UTD Statement of Purpose

Welcome to Unorthodox Theology. UT is a forum for all discussion of unorthodox theology and fellowship. This is a Christian only area,

the bible says who are Christ's and who are not , so this needs to be re-worded as the bible shows it is false :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

however both orthodox and unorthodox Christians are welcome to post here.

there is no division of Christ [or God] but Jesus shows that tradition of men is false and leads to the whole world worshipping Satan, even though he is calling himself God [2Thess 2:4] and his mass religion of the whole world called [orthodox] Christianity ... thus we find that Jesus' own teaching in the bible is classified as 'unorthodox' by CF and all Satan's churches [as yet divided, so clearly not of God] are given priority on this site whilst Jesus and his followers would be/are sidelined into UT ... this is a priority need then to straighten out the definitions and words used to fit the bible and Jesus' teachings else the SoP becomes meaningless , headed by statements which Jesus and saints in the bible show are untrue ...

This is a statement that identifies the purpose of this forum and delineates how the rules will be applied here.

but it cannot do so until the scripture is taken into account to which it is false at present

UT area is not intended to be a "safe haven" for members who hold unorthodox beliefs.

So indeed even saints would not be 'safe' here, which has proven true in the past when they tried to post the Truth of God straight from scripture... but surely this is not acceptable unless the site ceases to call itself Christian? one surely cannot ignore Jesus' teachings and claim to be Christian without lying... even if one is lying to oneself...

Unorthodox beliefs are those that are contrary to the Nicene Creed,

the Nicene creed is just a LCD of a few men commissioned by an admitted-pagan emperor who insisted on agreement , clearly the statement by a saint of what makes one Christ's pre-dates this and is of the spirit ... thus is comprehensive instead of choosing a least common denominator of a few men who grabbed power of modified religion under paganism of Roman rule ... this very obviously is a priority topic but NEEDS to be discussed in the OPEN not behind closed doors where it is repeatedly censored and folks 'disappeared' to gag their views from scripture which desperately need to be discussed... openly by all using Jesus' Truth in scripture as the guide...

which CF has adopted as the Statement of Faith for the forum.

again this needs to be discussed, no-one can make a statement of faith for others and Jesus said to get one's beliefs from God directly:-

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Since these beliefs are outside of the SoF they are not protected in the same way that orthodox beliefs are.

Jesus talked with everyone, no censorship of those who disagreed with him... but on CF Jesus' views are classified as unorthodox that is clearly self-contradictory making the site classification false , obcviously, by witness of saints and prophets in scripture... so it seriously needs open discussion where folks cannot be gagged

Threads started in fora outside of UT that discuss Unorthdox doctrines or groups (as CF defines Unorthodox) will be relocated here. This way UT members will have an opportunity to address topics that are related to their set of beliefs.

orthodox members [by CF definition of orthodoxy]
have an opportunity to address topics that are related to their set of beliefs with their co-believers without being questioned even by Saints of God [because they are sidelined to UT] but this is not true of UT members , so this statement is false ... folks who actually follow scripture to the letter are harragued all the time by folk who do not even know what the bible states clearly, what the 'Christ' is, who the House of Israel are, that God forbids sin in Jesus' followers, etc, etc

so please remove this statement from SoP, as it is false...

On Calling People Not Christian In This Section

We know we have differences of belief in this area. This is not an area for promotion of Unorthodox Beliefs.

that is an ambiguous statement and used mainliners to persecute those in UT using sympathetic mods.... there is no appeal to scripture , just persecution by those who claim to be 'Christian' ... this statemetn needs much work and knowledge of scripture to put it straight with God....

But it is also not a place to take shots at those who hold them.

again, quite the opposite is true ... there have even been covert conspiracies

It is a place for outreach and discussion on points of Unorthodox and Speculative theology.

Jesus' views get classified here , surely you see that is a BIG mistake

Those holding Unorthodox beliefs can not tell Nicene Christians they are not Christians.

they can point out that the scripture does so, but will be persecuted for doing so... eventually banned for being true to verifiable scripture

Nicene Christians can say Unorthodox beliefs are not normal Christian beliefs if they do so in a post that shows why Unorthodox beliefs are at odds with normative Christian Theology.

but Jesus' own revelation states that his way is NOT the norm -Rev 13:3-4 but Satan's mass religion of sinners is ...

Nicene Christians can not just run into a thread say you are not Christian and expect the protection of the area.

demonstrably they can, mods always favour the norm , do not know Jesus' revelation about the norm -Rev 13:3-4

This is a place to illustrate why we hold the theology in error and Unorthodox.

not ALL here is untrue by scripture, but all normal beliefs of mankind can be proven false by scripture , such as Jesus' own revelation about religious tradition of men -Rev 13:3-4

It is to be done in love and charity and yes ... sometimes directly and forcefully. But not as free shots at our fellow CF members.

censoring fellow men is not Jesus' way ... that is not Love then...not Christian then...

Some of those who hold Unorthodox beliefs may consider this a double standard. Yes, it is. Christian Forums holds your beliefs to be Unorthodox and in error.

this is a discussion forum... for those who run it to decide a priori that they are right and scripture is wrong is neither the way of Jesus nor in fact correct or even just... easily proven from scripture without recourse to any re-interpretation

You have the protection of civility and charity and fair moderation of complaints.

appeal against mod bias and error does not allow recourse to scripture and the site does not uphold the way of Jesus in scripture [so it should not be called CF] so there can be no justice here even for saints, and charity is not part of the rules...let alone Love and forgiveness beyond judgement as described by the saints and Jesus ...in contrast the punishments are Draconian for simply disagreeing as God and Jesus, saints and prophets in the bible do , with the non-discussable tenets of the site ... but we are alowed to discuss the mistaken staements of the SoP here as invited openly to do...

You do not have the expectation that we hold your beliefs to be true.

there is no advantage in going against the Truth of God in scripture, one cannot gain anything by it in the end and there is much yet to lose for all who do ...

If a Nicene Christian flames you we will action it and fairly moderate it. But telling you you are wrong and explaining why in the context of an explanatory post in a civil, even if forthright way, is not a flame.

mods have been many times known to interpret the rules however they like, none has ever been justified in their appeal against a mod that I know of... those banned have no recourse to appeal against the Draconian decision.. but it ain't Love and so ain't Christian...

What we look for in discussion or debate

The debate in these forums are expected to conform to site rules whether the poster holds unorthodox views or not.

When you Disagree:

• Members who participate here are expected to treat one another with courtesy and respect at all times, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with each other.
• When you disagree, address the context of the post and not the poster.
• When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial.
• When you disagree and you find yourself becoming frustrated and angry, step away from the computer and give yourself time to cool down.
• Always proofread your post before hitting the "Reply" button to make sure you have responded with courtesy and respect.

The term "anti-____" as used in this forum has come to have the connotation of one who is against or hates a particular faith group as people, CF staff have decided that it is not an appropriate term for use in this forum. Therefore, if any member refers to another member as "anti-_____", "an anti", "hater", "_____ hater", or any related terms with the same meaning, such comments will be regarded as flaming and will be dealt with as such.

quite simply the bible is a written account of revelations of the sirit which is God himself.... that undeniably should be the standard for any Christian aspiring to spirit baptism and trial of their Love in this life... but when actually baptised one knows the Truth from God, so there is no personal doubt about the Truth and none can pervert it ... so really, the site is missing the teaching of Jesus here, by a mile :-

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jesus died to bring this Truth from God to all who obey him as Lord , he said so , so there is no division between those who follow Jesus once they can bear the Truth from God Himself after ceasing [repenting] all sin :-

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

so I would suggest at least bringing the SoP in line with the scripture of God from saints and prophets and Jesus and forgetting the tradition of men which Jesus says leads to Rev 13:3-4 , a world where sin is the norm in religion of the fake god, Satan in disguise as Christ, God with us 2Thess 2:4 :-

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Christians all learn the Truth direct from God himself in spirit baptism and Jesus confirms that no-one can be saved without this from God Himself direct :-

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[A New Dawn]

Well, was a decision made yet? And if it was decided not to move Freemasonry to a more correct forum, is there no explanation?

I'm sure that all the Masons who are members of CF expect that hearsay and malicious gossip was not what governed the decision.

The decision is not made completely, but it is looking favorable for the move.

 

[Albion]

The decision is not made completely, but it is looking favorable for the move.

Thank you, A.N.D.

Because that full preterism matter was settled so quickly, I mistakenly thought this one surely had to have been determined by now as well. My apologies.

 

[A New Dawn]

again this needs to be discussed, no-one can make a statement of faith for others and Jesus said to get one's beliefs from God directly

No one made a statement of faith for anyone else. The statement of faith is for the website, to help govern the setup. You are free to believe what you want.

this is a discussion forum... for those who run it to decide a priori that they are right and scripture is wrong is neither the way of Jesus nor in fact correct or even just... easily proven from scripture without recourse to any re-interpretation

You are correct. This is a discussion forum, and the owner does maintain the right to set it up in the manner he sees fit. And this is how he wants it set up. There are specific forums for specific types of discussions, and this forum is for the discussion of beliefs that are seen as unorthodox my mainstream Christianity.

If you have concerns about other issues that are not associated with the Statement of Purpose for this forum, please take them to the MSC so this thread can stay on topic and remain open.

 

[Norah63]

Has there ever been a quota of how many threads a person can start on the same topic?
Just wondering, because it would seem much simpler, and less tiring to keep one thread going than to start so many different ones on the same subject.

 

[A New Dawn]

Has there ever been a quota of how many threads a person can start on the same topic?
Just wondering, because it would seem much simpler, and less tiring to keep one thread going than to start so many different ones on the same subject.

That is an interesting question. Years ago we had an informal rule that was sort of like "One thread per topic, one topic per thread". And it might seem redundant to have multiple threads for similar topics, but often the questions posted about the topic are different, taking the topic in different directions, and it is hard to keep the topics on-topic that way.

But the quota question has come up before. Unfortunately, there is no real way we can enforce it.

 

[Rescued One]

Usually when threads are started the topic seems to wander but you hate to not answer questions.

 

[Drudgeon]

Bumping for an update on the status of Freemasonry, as was previously discussed.

 

[Anto9us]

Refresh my memory on the Freemasonry issue, Drudgeon -

was it that Freemasonry could be discussed OUTSIDE UT - like - on other forums

- or that it have it's OWN forum, or both?

 

[Albion]

Refresh my memory on the Freemasonry issue, Drudgeon -

was it that Freemasonry could be discussed OUTSIDE UT - like - on other forums

- or that it have it's OWN forum, or both?

It's not a religion or religious theory, so it shouldn't be classified as unorthodox theology, orthodox theology, or anything of the sort, alongside recognized churches. But we do have forums on CF for discussion of current events and other such matters, so one of them would be appropriate. We've been waiting for a decision for a long time.

 

[Raimi Stranger]

No one made a statement of faith for anyone else. The statement of faith is for the website, to help govern the setup. You are free to believe what you want.

the bible defines a follower of Christ differently than CF , refers consistently to Jesus' followers as saints [once baptised of the spirit], no longer sinners... the very foundation of God is to stop sinning so one can perfect Love in baptism of the 'fire' of God's Truth of Love burning inside ... that is straight scripture and yet it is called UT and enforced with Draconian punishments so that one cannot discuss the bible on a discussion site with a specific group of people following a pagan Roman emperor's teaching in place of Christ's and God's teaching written clearly and precisely in scripture

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

one cannot be translated to spirit without spirit baptism and trail of one's Love to perfect it in trial in life before death, baptism of fire of the few saints [Matt 7:13-14] ... the many are destroyed because baptism of the spirit is sealed against those who have not the will to stop sinning so need death to take away their sin [Romans 6:7] and will thus turn to Love only because it is the way of Life in Jesus' kingdom set up by the few saints...

it is SEALED because facing God in spirit baptism is certain death for anyone still sinning openly so one can be sure of God's definition of a follower of Jesus the Christ , it is backed by God's own spirit baptism sealed from those who will not repent, depart from iniquity in water baptism...

three stages to one baptism then in the salvation in scripture as described by John the baptist and the saints of God in detail ... how can one ignore all that scripture and prevent discussion of this central topic of salvation with those Jesus says will be deluded , all sinners -Rev 15:3-4

You are correct. This is a discussion forum, and the owner does maintain the right to set it up in the manner he sees fit. And this is how he wants it set up. There are specific forums for specific types of discussions, and this forum is for the discussion of beliefs that are seen as unorthodox my mainstream Christianity.

I surely know this all-too-well , but there are claims made in the creation and maintenance of this arbitrary structure which need discussion if the site is not to be used to delude folks about scripture and all such discussion is currently censored in Draconian fashion... that is not discussion

[/QUOTE]
If you have concerns about other issues that are not associated with the Statement of Purpose for this forum, please take them to the MSC so this thread can stay on topic and remain open.[/quote]

Certainly I will, but my post above is, as you requested, specifically addressing the problems of the SoP , and you have not answered my points ... so is this thread is not for discussion of the SoP ? ... will you too ignore written scripture as witness of God in your decisions here ? ...

the site is connected despite the apartheid of sinners into groups which prevents their uniting in one Truth of scripture by water baptism to stop sinning so that God can teach men as Jesus promises for all who obey him as Lord and Love, no more iniquity abusing others...

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

there is no comfort in the belly as a sinner, that is the 'fire' of conscience because men know right [Love] from wrong [sin] ... it is hard to 'kick against the pricks' of conscience just to follow the masses to destruction [Matt 7:13] ... safety in numbers? ... not so, Jesus states that whole world will worship the wrong God -Rev 13:3-4

so my hope is still that you will at least address my points about the SoP and put one part of the site in line with God's views through Jesus, saints, and prophets ... 'Christians' cannot be 'defined' not to be the saints, sons of God and the follow Jesus, not the site owner's views ...

so since at present God's few saints are to be sidelined with some sinners into UT in a mixed bag , simply for upholding what everyone knows in their hearts [Love is right, sin is wrong, so sinners are not following Jesus yet as he commands Love, not sin] ... maybe decide who to follow and have courage and faith in Love to put God's case here about the SoP ...

 

[Raimi Stranger]

That is an interesting question. Years ago we had an informal rule that was sort of like "One thread per topic, one topic per thread". And it might seem redundant to have multiple threads for similar topics, but often the questions posted about the topic are different, taking the topic in different directions, and it is hard to keep the topics on-topic that way.

But the quota question has come up before. Unfortunately, there is no real way we can enforce it.

This is a major problem as I'm sure you know, and the answer is to let people carry on their haphazard ways of 'discussing' whilst chatting about the goldfush and such like, but have a Library of continuously updated REFERENCE threads which SUMMARISES every argument put for and against every [referenced by HTML] point [classified, with an index ]

Then we would be able to use the accumulated wisdom of everyone one every topic and move forward instead of covering the same old ground sketchily over and over with no progress toward God's Truth of scripture and the holy spirit...

 

[Raimi Stranger]

It's not a religion or religious theory, so it shouldn't be classified as unorthodox theology, orthodox theology, or anything of the sort, alongside recognized churches. But we do have forums on CF for discussion of current events and other such matters, so one of them would be appropriate. We've been waiting for a decision for a long time.

it's not a question of theory, the problem is the blood oath to their lodge which supersedes all other commitments in life ... ironically they give up being free despite the name, in order to have more power to control other men by men's methods... the hierarchy of deceitful authority of men, the rat-race, dogma of creedal beliefs ,fear of force of arms... God has a better way, Love, but only few have the will to Love in our increasingly evil self-destructive world ... institutions are the means to the evil of man against man and it becomes worldwide -Rev 13:3-4

freemasonry is in many ways like the civil service doing the bidding of professional liars, a power structure completely alien to Christ's equality of all ... and whilst it claims to be non-religious , its covert leadership is committed to hardline Gnostic Zionism [that is they tell people what to believe , what is sacred 'knowledge' ['gnosis], and believe in rule of this world from Jerusalem ... but you see Jesus tells us this world will be ruled from Jerusalem by Satan for three and a half years before Jesus' return... and all teh world will follow this fake God of all men of mass religion, mass Christianity of sinners...Rev 13:3-4 ... it is written many ways by prophets, one can hardly expect this terror not to come true , it gets really bad after Satan dies and Jesus leaves all sinners behind to their terrible deaths in the end of this earth...

so perhaps men will listen, but it seems not... anyway carry on discussing it and maybe make your own mind up whether the God of Love is really for you or not ... few follow Him now , but the many are destroyed in greatest eve tribulation of mankind.., the many are not saved until later, mass religion lies to men to gain power over them... Jesus yold you -Rev 13:3-4, Matt 24, 2Thess 2 ...and more!

 

[A New Dawn]

Sorry, I was out of town for a week.

We have decided that Philosophy is a good location for discussing Freemasonry, so that will be it's new home. I will put an announcement up here and in Philosophy.

 

[Norah63]

Welcome back Dawn.
Forum is still a lot of copy an paste material. Tiring to wade through to get to comments.
Guess that is just the way these forums work.
Thanks for your efforts to give us a safe and enjoyably place to post.

 

[A New Dawn]

the bible defines a follower of Christ differently than CF , refers consistently to Jesus' followers as saints [once baptised of the spirit], no longer sinners... the very foundation of God is to stop sinning so one can perfect Love in baptism of the 'fire' of God's Truth of Love burning inside ... that is straight scripture and yet it is called UT and enforced with Draconian punishments so that one cannot discuss the bible on a discussion site with a specific group of people following a pagan Roman emperor's teaching in place of Christ's and God's teaching written clearly and precisely in scripture

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

one cannot be translated to spirit without spirit baptism and trail of one's Love to perfect it in trial in life before death, baptism of fire of the few saints [Matt 7:13-14] ... the many are destroyed because baptism of the spirit is sealed against those who have not the will to stop sinning so need death to take away their sin [Romans 6:7] and will thus turn to Love only because it is the way of Life in Jesus' kingdom set up by the few saints...

it is SEALED because facing God in spirit baptism is certain death for anyone still sinning openly so one can be sure of God's definition of a follower of Jesus the Christ , it is backed by God's own spirit baptism sealed from those who will not repent, depart from iniquity in water baptism...

three stages to one baptism then in the salvation in scripture as described by John the baptist and the saints of God in detail ... how can one ignore all that scripture and prevent discussion of this central topic of salvation with those Jesus says will be deluded , all sinners -Rev 15:3-4



I surely know this all-too-well , but there are claims made in the creation and maintenance of this arbitrary structure which need discussion if the site is not to be used to delude folks about scripture and all such discussion is currently censored in Draconian fashion... that is not discussion

If you have concerns about other issues that are not associated with the Statement of Purpose for this forum, please take them to the MSC so this thread can stay on topic and remain open.

Certainly I will, but my post above is, as you requested, specifically addressing the problems of the SoP , and you have not answered my points ... so is this thread is not for discussion of the SoP ? ... will you too ignore written scripture as witness of God in your decisions here ? ...

the site is connected despite the apartheid of sinners into groups which prevents their uniting in one Truth of scripture by water baptism to stop sinning so that God can teach men as Jesus promises for all who obey him as Lord and Love, no more iniquity abusing others...

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

there is no comfort in the belly as a sinner, that is the 'fire' of conscience because men know right [Love] from wrong [sin] ... it is hard to 'kick against the pricks' of conscience just to follow the masses to destruction [Matt 7:13] ... safety in numbers? ... not so, Jesus states that whole world will worship the wrong God -Rev 13:3-4

so my hope is still that you will at least address my points about the SoP and put one part of the site in line with God's views through Jesus, saints, and prophets ... 'Christians' cannot be 'defined' not to be the saints, sons of God and the follow Jesus, not the site owner's views ...

so since at present God's few saints are to be sidelined with some sinners into UT in a mixed bag , simply for upholding what everyone knows in their hearts [Love is right, sin is wrong, so sinners are not following Jesus yet as he commands Love, not sin] ... maybe decide who to follow and have courage and faith in Love to put God's case here about the SoP ...

This is my final response to you here in this forum about this issue.

This forum is for discussion of topics. We are not separating believers from anything, we are separating topics. Anyone here, as a believer, can go and fellowship anywhere with other believers. It is the non-Nicene theological discussions that are confined here. Does that help?

As I said, I am waiting for you in the MSC to discuss your other issue.

 

[Anto9us]

Congratulations, masons, on not being confined to UT!

Welcome back, New Dawn!

 

[Ran77]

At least the moderators are finally admitting to a double standard.

 

[americanvet]

Sorry, I was out of town for a week.

We have decided that Philosophy is a good location for discussing Freemasonry, so that will be it's new home. I will put an announcement up here and in Philosophy.

From me and the other Freemasons on the site, thank you.

 

[Norah63]

Does a closed thread always stay closed?