New Statement of Faith at Christian Forums

BelindaP said:

I take it that you refer to me and a few others in this post. Where exactly are we stirring dissent? By and large, we are accepting this statement of faith. The only one or two I see stirring dissention never left.

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I think she was referring to those who were really causing the problems and I don't think it was your or herev. There are those who don't think our current Statement of Faith is enough to control false doctrines.

And yet, it doesn't halt the accusations, but instead further them based on "history".

I'll be the first to admit CF has a colorful history...but never with 4 advisors who would immediate step down and leave CF to its own devices if some of those practices came to pass again. Not on our watch...not gonna happen.

So the statement of faith returned to the Nicene Creed...with asterisks to include all denominations not just the liturgical ones...

So what? The site rules aren't changing, the CO forums remain CO, the open forums remain open...

I fail to see what's even here to be worried about! Let alone make all of these accusations and assumptions!

Step backwards? Step back to icon control?

The only thing I remember of your staff record on CF was 2nd...maybe even 4th hand...so I wouldn't trust that perspective anyhow...I form my own opinions. I'm not a parrot to continue another's.

I don't have a problem with people expressing concerns...but doing it in a catty, snarky manner crosses the line from "expressing concern" into the realm of "y'all are idiots".

the post wasn't directed toward you alone...and I'm sorry you took it that way...but the fact remains that there are people in this thread who haven't particpated in a constructive manner on CF in a while now...and they've returned to express concerns over changes that in reality have no effect on any poster...

How else would you construe the snark from those that have been absent...

I do hope you are not referring to me. I have not left here and have continued to post even when shabbily treated. But maybe that's just me being 'snarky' again.

Guys:

The SOF is back as the Nicene Creed. I dont know if you agree or disagree with it, but its back. If you dont like it, thats fine. Personally, i know a lot of people are happy to have it back. Me, its fine by me. It states what i believe, and i think thats great.

It was never intended to be something that universally defines as to if you are a christian or not - that would be impossible to do without a statement of faith that wasnt 10 reams of paper long.

At the end of the day, its a statement of faith. If you dont agree with it, it doesnt mean that you are not a christian. You know in your own heart if you are a christian or not - the nicene creed cant decide on that. Its between you and God.

I know this has been difficult for a lot of people. I understand that there are strong feelings about this, and that some people are stressed out about this. My prayers are with you, for Gods peace and rest.

I dont know each and every single one of you, i would be lucky if i know half, but i know that this is what has happened, and that it has changed. Yes, i stand by my Site Advisors, and i will walk with them in the changes that happen on the site. At the end of the day, thats what it is. A website.

Yes, it is a darn good site, a site with a community and a love of God, a site that members of the family of Christ can come and fellowship, and be at peace, and have some great friends. But its a site.

Please, dont take this personally. The SOF is not meant to exclude anyone - its a statement of faith, what the site stands for. Its ingrained in the very name of the site - Christian Forums.

I suppose what im getting at here is that it has changed. I dont know what the results of this change will be. I dont know who it will affect. But guys, can we calm down? As christians, we forgive and are tolerant. What im seeing is a lot of, well, negative feelings towards a lot of people. Cmon - calm down. Step back, examine the situation. Pray about it. If you still feel strongly about it, then feel free to PM someone, the Reconciliation Team, the Site Advisors, whoever you feel can help. They are here for you, the members of the site.

God Bless,
Icarus

I think the thread has been quite civilized if you want my honest opinion. The fact that the advisors are such nervous nellies that they have to close the thread when one of them isn't on concerns me terribly. The command and control mentality does a lot to hurt your message imo. Y'all need to develop a thicker skin if you're going to be reaching out to the masses. I honestly can't believe how overwrought the advisors have gotten for what I consider to be rather mild criticism. All I can say is that having Tonks as a part of it is the only thing that is reassuring me.

Gwenyfur said:

And yet, it doesn't halt the accusations, but instead further them based on "history".

I'll be the first to admit CF has a colorful history...but never with 4 advisors who would immediate step down and leave CF to its own devices if some of those practices came to pass again. Not on our watch...not gonna happen.

So the statement of faith returned to the Nicene Creed...with asterisks to include all denominations not just the liturgical ones...

So what? The site rules aren't changing, the CO forums remain CO, the open forums remain open...

I fail to see what's even here to be worried about! Let alone make all of these accusations and assumptions!

Step backwards? Step back to icon control?

The only thing I remember of your staff record on CF was 2nd...maybe even 4th hand...so I wouldn't trust that perspective anyhow...I form my own opinions. I'm not a parrot to continue another's.

I don't have a problem with people expressing concerns...but doing it in a catty, snarky manner crosses the line from "expressing concern" into the realm of "y'all are idiots".

the post wasn't directed toward you alone...and I'm sorry you took it that way...but the fact remains that there are people in this thread who haven't particpated in a constructive manner on CF in a while now...and they've returned to express concerns over changes that in reality have no effect on any poster...

How else would you construe the snark from those that have been absent...

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Oh puleez. You have about as much tact as a bull in a china shop.

matilda1991 said:

Oh puleez. You have about as much tact as a bull in a china shop.

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Note my user title

Gwenyfur said:

And yet, it doesn't halt the accusations, but instead further them based on "history".

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my post was in response to your post in the PRESENT, not in the past. My concerns have been based on history, but those were not accusations.

I'll be the first to admit CF has a colorful history...but never with 4 advisors who would immediate step down and leave CF to its own devices if some of those practices came to pass again. Not on our watch...not gonna happen.

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and that was not the topic of my post

So the statement of faith returned to the Nicene Creed...with asterisks to include all denominations not just the liturgical ones...

So what? The site rules aren't changing, the CO forums remain CO, the open forums remain open...

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and yet I have expressed my concerns and told you why--it's not an accusation against you. Until you posted here, I didn't know you WERE an advisor. I express my valid concerns, not an accusation, not an attack, not even snarky, but valid concerns. YOUR failure to recognize it as legit simply says to those who raise the concerns, "we don't care--get over it." Not the same way tonks is presenting it--so already, there is a discrepancy--yet another reason for valid concern.

I fail to see what's even here to be worried about!

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perhaps taking a moment to earnest ask, listen and care about the concerns lifted up instead of rejecting them as attacks or conspiracy might help you understand--not that you should agree, but if you tried, understanding might come.

Let alone make all of these accusations and assumptions!

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neither have been made. Accusations? Against whom? by whom? What Accusation? Assumptions? No, comments, fears, uneasiness, questions.

Step backwards? Step back to icon control?

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yes, that IS a concern

The only thing I remember of your staff record on CF was 2nd...maybe even 4th hand...so I wouldn't trust that perspective anyhow...I form my own opinions. I'm not a parrot to continue another's.

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and nor am I. So, since I've not judged you to be a part of some conspiracy, why judge "those who have been gone a while" as suddenly coming back to cause trouble, stirring the "complaint pot?" Why not actually listen to those members who have conerns? Doen't mean you have to agree or change anything. Better yet, since Tonks seems to be doing good at that, why not let him handle it?

I don't have a problem with people expressing concerns...but doing it in a catty, snarky manner crosses the line from "expressing concern" into the realm of "y'all are idiots".

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p-k-b

are you not the one who just said this:

Gwenyfur said:

I find it amazing that members who haven't been here in a long time, who haven't been participating in the forums, who haven't had interaction anywhere in any manner on CF in quite a while...are somehow "divining" the intent and result of actions taken by the board administration.

Also ironic, that these long time non participating members only show up to stir a complaint pot...when they have already shown they have no intention of participating in ways to help CF.

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catty, snarky, NO concern, and "ya'll are not welcome and are obviously one here to be trouble makers and stir the 'complaint pot'"--all for expressing concern, asking questions, and expressing an opinion. Oddly enough, most of us have said we AGREE with tonks, but still have concerns--not all, but some.

the post wasn't directed toward you alone...and I'm sorry you took it that way...

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please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it, in fact said precisely the opposite

but the fact remains that there are people in this thread who haven't particpated in a constructive manner on CF in a while now...and they've returned to express concerns over changes

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yes, and the ASSUMPTION that this means they are up to no good is simply that--an assumption and it shows disdain for those you "lead" in your role as advisor. Simply having an attitude of "let them eat cake" has never gone over well in World History.

that in reality have no effect on any poster...

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but already Tonks has said that there WOULD be an effect. He said that it would affect where posts could be moved and how--he said things could be restricted to the "non-orthodox" area. And I don't even disagree with that per se--not the point--but HE said there would be changes--not much, but changes. The concern is what this COULD lead to potentially in the future. and he said this was a "soft" changeover--this is used in business to suggest that the results of the changes will happen slowly over time, which again suggests MORE changes coming--we're not doing anything but responding with questions, concerns, and opinions. And AGAIN, I HAVE earned the right, paid my dues, and given of my own blood, sweat, and tears, time, and money to this site--I should be allowed to do raise my concerns, ask my questions, and state my opinions without being labled as a conspirator.

How else would you construe the snark from those that have been absent...

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obviously differently from you--as one of THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABSENT, I see it far differently. It would be nice if you would ask rather than assume. You might try listening to people--wouldn't hurt, could help--and listening to others does not mean you are going to change your mind, but you could show some genuine interest in their concerns rathter than "snarkily" dismissing them out of hand as conspirators.

Gwenyfur said:

Note my user title

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the fact that you are proud of that is why people want to talk to Tonks about this. The site would be better served if you allowed that to continue--cooler heads WOULD prevail. We were getting along fine.

icarusforde said:

Guys:

The SOF is back as the Nicene Creed. I dont know if you agree or disagree with it, but its back. If you dont like it, thats fine. Personally, i know a lot of people are happy to have it back. Me, its fine by me. It states what i believe, and i think thats great.

It was never intended to be something that universally defines as to if you are a christian or not - that would be impossible to do without a statement of faith that wasnt 10 reams of paper long.

At the end of the day, its a statement of faith. If you dont agree with it, it doesnt mean that you are not a christian. You know in your own heart if you are a christian or not - the nicene creed cant decide on that. Its between you and God.

I know this has been difficult for a lot of people. I understand that there are strong feelings about this, and that some people are stressed out about this. My prayers are with you, for Gods peace and rest.

I dont know each and every single one of you, i would be lucky if i know half, but i know that this is what has happened, and that it has changed. Yes, i stand by my Site Advisors, and i will walk with them in the changes that happen on the site. At the end of the day, thats what it is. A website.

Yes, it is a darn good site, a site with a community and a love of God, a site that members of the family of Christ can come and fellowship, and be at peace, and have some great friends. But its a site.

Please, dont take this personally. The SOF is not meant to exclude anyone - its a statement of faith, what the site stands for. Its ingrained in the very name of the site - Christian Forums.

I suppose what im getting at here is that it has changed. I dont know what the results of this change will be. I dont know who it will affect. But guys, can we calm down? As christians, we forgive and are tolerant. What im seeing is a lot of, well, negative feelings towards a lot of people. Cmon - calm down. Step back, examine the situation. Pray about it. If you still feel strongly about it, then feel free to PM someone, the Reconciliation Team, the Site Advisors, whoever you feel can help. They are here for you, the members of the site.

God Bless,
Icarus

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young man, I appreciate your words and your service to CF--a site I've spent a lot of time supporting.
Imagine for yourself after years of service you have to take a leave of absence. You come back and see that some of the things you worked very hard for in support of or standing behind your advisors were being changed back to what they were before all your hard work. As a long time supporter and hard worker for this site, you are concerned, ask a few questions and then have one of the new advisors dismiss you out of hand and label you one who is "stirring the complaint pot"--all because you did what comes natural--you stood up for the site you love. I pray no one does that to you, but I also pray you understand that this is not about "calming down."

And just so you know. since you have said it's not about deciding who is and who isn't Christian--that's EXACTLY what was said in the past--and then it happened. Forced icon changes, refusal to allow someone to post as a Christian because of a difference of doctrine. It's not something we are imagining--it happened. So, when we see the same foundation laid as before, we express concerns that things might go back to that unfortunate climate and for expressing our opinion, we are assumed to be trouble makers, told that we are not interested in helping or supporting the site (my site supporter dues are paid through 2013 I believe and I served on staff for years as a mod, supervisor, Administrator, etc.), and only here to stir the pot.

Being able to express opinions, dissatisfaction, concerns, and ask questions of leadership is the mark of a healthy society. CF is a society--being labeled for exercising our voices in such a minor way is cause for concern in and of itself as it shows that the climate is drifting towards an unhealthy time.

I know these people she is labeling. Many of them have been labeled for years--and always for trying to do what they thought in their hearts was the right thing--that's not cool--and in this very thread that Tonks has worked so hard in to see that sort of response was simply not cool.
God Bless you as you serve CF.
thanks for listening

correction, my site supporter status is paid through 2016--still can't figure out why it doesn't show in my posts---hmm

Hey D'Ann! I see you reading--miss you!

Herev,

You and I have moved from one ministry to the next (I assume you have, I have). Did you expect the new pastor to keep things just because you worked hard? I did/do not.

For the record... (hi Herev)

If we return to witch hunts over faith icons, Gweny and meh and Tonks and I and many upon many other people will be gone.

With all of my heart I can reassure you Herev that there will be NO witch hunts. We will not moderate based on faith icons. We will not seek to judge anyone's Christianity, especially based on faith icons.

I'm sorry for this misunderstanding that has occur... but Herev... Gweny is really one of the good guys (gals). She understands where you are coming from. None of us want those old witch hunts.

The Nicene Creed is truly only meant to be a statement for CF when it comes to what CF believes Christianity is about. That is ALL it is. No more, no less. It will not be used to hurt anyone with witch hunts.

In case I haven't said this... it sure is nice to see you back friend. I've missed you and I sure hope to see you around in other parts of the board.

God bless you and your family.

Debbie

Hi there Herev and Steve... it's nice to see ya both!

It's been way too long since saying hi to you herev. How have you been? I pray all has been well as can be for you and your family and ministry.

I've been here at CF through many changes. I've watched the Nicene Creed come and go and change. This... It's just.. another change. Why people feel it necessary to bring out the argumentative guns, I have no idea. Change happens. I doubt it will be the last. I know it won't be the last, whether it be a short or long time period before the next change, it will come. It always comes.

Someone else hit the nail on the head... how we treat one another is what really matters on a message board. Whether the Nicene Creed is here or not, is irrelevant to me at the end of the day. The most sad thing is to watch people fight about it.

Ahh well..

Hey, it's like old times... I see MNphysicist up there too! Hi there.

And, many of us have returned because we contemplate staying around a while. But we want to understand what we're getting into before we make that committment again.

drstevej said:

Herev,

You and I have moved from one ministry to the next (I assume you have, I have). Did you expect the new pastor to keep things just because you worked hard? I did/do not.

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of course not.
Not a good analogy IMHO, when I move pastorates, I don't go back.
Here, I moved from a position of servant leadership to a position of membership. I am STILL a member in good standing and as such, have a voice (or expect to have one). I had no expectations at all of new leadership. I am merely asking questions, expressing my opinion, and my concerns. Seriously, that was it--the insinuation that doing so means I'm mysteriously returning just in time to stir the pot was uncalled for, not nice, presumptuous, and flat out incorrect. Are questions a bad thing now? Is expressing concern a bad thing now? Is having an opinion a punishable offense now?

herev said:

of course not.
Not a good analogy IMHO, when I move pastorates, I don't go back.
Here, I moved from a position of servant leadership to a position of membership. I am STILL a member in good standing and as such, have a voice (or expect to have one). I had no expectations at all of new leadership. I am merely asking questions, expressing my opinion, and my concerns. Seriously, that was it--the insinuation that doing so means I'm mysteriously returning just in time to stir the pot was uncalled for, not nice, presumptuous, and flat out incorrect. Are questions a bad thing now? Is expressing concern a bad thing now? Is having an opinion a punishable offense now?

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Opinions are fine. But the Old CF was more a congregational rule, whereas the current CF is bishop/elder.

We merged with a small church and the pastor of the smaller church now is in sales rather than full time ministry. He is a member of the congregation but he does not tell us how he thinks the location where he was pastor should run.

there is new leadership here. Input is solicited from time to time, but the Advisors seem willing and able to make the decisions.

the pastor emeritus at our church attends often and it took him a while to release the reigns and allow the next generation lead, he has done that now and it is great to have him around.

Hear darlin!

D'Ann said:

For the record... (hi Herev)

If we return to witch hunts over faith icons, Gweny and meh and Tonks and I and many upon many other people will be gone.

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that is good to hear and I trust you--always have. You are a shining star amongst much darkness that exists in power struggles on CF.

With all of my heart I can reassure you Herev that there will be NO witch hunts. We will not moderate based on faith icons. We will not seek to judge anyone's Christianity, especially based on faith icons.

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good to hear

I'm sorry for this misunderstanding that has occur... but Herev... Gweny is really one of the good guys (gals).

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hmm, I trust you--really, but she had no business being here if she can't take a few comments and questions--and the least she could have done is apologize. The insinuation that I have no desire to help this site after all I've given of myself was just plain ole not nice

She understands where you are coming from.

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ok, I trust you. It is hard to see that from her "snarky" post.

None of us want those old witch hunts.

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good!

The Nicene Creed is truly only meant to be a statement for CF when it comes to what CF believes Christianity is about.

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and as I said, I think a statement of faith is a good thing. The problem is I'd like Tonks to explain what he meant by:
1. the whole "soft" startup--the language there (from my corporate background) brings up images of much more in the way of changes, but we are starting out slowly.
2. the whole using it to move unorthodox posts, threads. This FEELS like a precursor to then moving "people" who are deemed unorthodox when taken with the soft start up comment. That is all--just questions, concerns and comments

That is ALL it is. No more, no less. It will not be used to hurt anyone with witch hunts.

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good to hear.

In case I haven't said this... it sure is nice to see you back friend. I've missed you and I sure hope to see you around in other parts of the board.

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I've been going around and posting in various areas. It's good to see you too. I miss you and that man you hang out with too!

God bless you and your family.

Debbie

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you too
blessings
tommy