New question.

[Caty]

Its just like I know that I have done it. I honestly give up, this has been NON STOP for over a year. I cannot take it anymore. If God wanted me to know I was forgiven, then He would have helped me a long time ago.

 

[annrobert]

But that "ALL who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" is taken out of context with the rest of the bible because ALL can be saved except those who commit that sin.

Caty ALL means all

whosoever will means whosoever will

he that cometh to Me will in no wise be cast out means just that.

It does not say except certain people anywhere

it says ALL who call upon the Name of the Lord

and whosoever will

nothing is impossible for Jesus

I hope you get well soon and this suffering ends soon for you

one day Jesus will wipe all tears from all eyes

No one can snatch Jesus sheep out of His hand.

Anyone who believes in Jesus has everlasting life.

No exceptions.

There in no way to take ALL out of context or whosoever will


Jesus has never spoken an idle word

Jesus is Truth and His word shall not pass away

 

[annrobert]

Thanks Ann Roberts, I needed to see a verse like this.

YW Robertz,

That verse helped me so much also , I am happy is has helped you also.

 

[annrobert]

Follow the Spirit of God which never violates His Word.

excellent

 

[annrobert]

Its just like I know that I have done it. I honestly give up, this has been NON STOP for over a year. I cannot take it anymore. If God wanted me to know I was forgiven, then He would have helped me a long time ago.

feelings are powerful and deceiving

ocd thoughts are very confusing and deceiving

it all seems so real

but it is not

giving up is not the answer

we must hope in Jesus

I suffered for so long before Jesus healed me, yet Jesus did heal me out of His deep mercy and compassion and love.

we must hope in Jesus and quietly wait on Jesus

He is our Healer and our Strength

stay strong okay

 

[zingiber]

okay, if we are not supposed to take scriptures out of context and read the bible as a whole. then how can we take scriptures like, "any who come may drink" or "whoever comes to me will not be cast out." those are taken out of content when compared to people who think they have committed the unforgiveable sin, right? because they are not talkign about the unforgiveable sin.

Nice try, OCD. Caty, you have just had one thought I haven't had before - a momentous occasion! But still, no problem: those comforting verses are not out of context. Especially not if you consider the whole Bible. What you are doing is taking one verse (the UF verse, which is one of a kind) and using it to interpret the rest of the Word, so that you can longer take comfort in the verses of hope. You are interpreting the nice verses using the context of the UF verse - you really are.

Look through the Bible - there is a vast (I usually avoid passionate descriptors, but this is one case where it is definitly fair to use 'vast') amount more of scripture which deals with God's mercy and forgiveness; which deals with his acceptance of all who come to him in repentance. You have to deal with verses not only in local context, but also in the context of the message of the whole Bible.

Im also confused about this, the Bible says All sins are forgiveabel to those who believe in Jesus or to those who come to God. but when the unforgiveable sin is thrown into there, then doesnt it become "All sins are forgiveable--except..." and that doesnt make sense because if all sins are forgiveable---they are forgiveable. but if they arent then why not just say. Most sins are forgiveable or some are...I feel bad for questioning His word but I dont understand this.

See again, you interpret one of the many verse in the context of the one. The statement of yours (which is a reasonable summary of the biblical teaching) "All sins are forgivable to those who believe in Jesus" you have now interpreted to mean "All sins except one are forgivable to those who believe in Jesus".

You need to see that you have come to Jesus - the Bible says you are not cast out. Those who have committed the UFS are cast out - therefore you have not committed the UFS.

Caty, you need to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist or some skilled worker. You have not let the thoughts go. It has happened as I knew it would: you are just getting worse. Seriously, if you can believe that OCD thought you described, you are getting really bad!

I am going to step up my prayers for you. Everybody else: your advice has been good - please step up your prayer efforts too. Lets all get praying.

I wish I could give you some of my conviction, my thinking. I wish I could speak to you and make you aware of your true position. I watch you struggling under what you think is a cloud while really the sun shines brightly overhead. I want you to get better. Please take the effort to get treatment or to help yourself. You are only young - you shouldn't have to struggle so much, especially when it is an unnecessary struggle.

 

[annrobert]

The only people who ever need to worry about being cast out are those who do not come to Jesus for mercy and forgiveness and cleansing before they die.

I know this because Jesus said

ALL that the Father gives to Me will come to Me and he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus also said whosoever will may come and drink Freely from the Water of Life.

Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life

Jesus said he that believeth on Me has everlasting life.


Whosoever calls upon the Name of the Lord SHALL be saved

I wish I could speak to you and make you aware of your true position. I watch you struggling under what you think is a cloud while really the sun shines brightly overhead. I want you to get better. Please take the effort to get treatment or to help yourself. You are only young - you shouldn't have to struggle so much, especially when it is an unnecessary struggle.

AMEN

the sun shines brightly

we want you to know you are loved by Jesus and may freely come and drink and you are not cast out

we want you to get better

 

[zingiber]

Caty, read this. I hope it helps.

A LOGICAL ARGUMENT
All verses NIV.

Premise [1]. Jesus' words, John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.'

Premise [2]. Psalm 16:1. You can say these words: 'Keep me safe, O God, for in you I take refuge.'

Therefore, Conclusion [3]. God's words, Isaiah 54:10 'Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken, nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Simplified:
Premise 1: If you come to Jesus, then you are saved.
Premise 2: You come to Jesus.
Therefore, Conclusion 3: You are saved.

This is a sound logical argument: it is the form known as 'Modus ponens' or, 'Affirming the Antedecent'. The only way you can invalidate it is to prove either premise wrong. Premise 1 is unassailable - the whole Bible carries this theme. Premise 2 is up to you, but you definitely sound like you are wanting to come to Jesus, except you are to scared to do so. So, the conclusion is that you can be saved, and that you are. That is what I think, and you should consider it.

 

[zingiber]

This is why we can have assurance, why there is hope despite all that assails us.
And I absolutely agree with Annrobert. She understands - take the time to read the words - don't just gloss over them and go on to your next worry without focusing. Annrobert is showing you the preponderance of verses of grace and mercy that exists in the Bible. They are not taken out of context, but you are taking the UFS passage out of context!

Hope ever springs anew.

P.S. Thanks Annrobert!

 

[annrobert]

amen zingiber

 

[Caty]

See again, you interpret one of the many verse in the context of the one. The statement of yours (which is a reasonable summary of the biblical teaching) "All sins are forgivable to those who believe in Jesus" you have now interpreted to mean "All sins except one are forgivable to those who believe in Jesus"




But right before Jesus said that about the uf-sin, He says ALL sins are forgiveable except one. Its like it sums up the whole forgiveness thing in one sentance.

You say ALL are forgiveable for those who come to Jesus, so why does it matter then. Why would He even say that because if you dont come to Jesus ALL sins are unforgiveable anyway. So why would one matter so much if you can go to Hell for a simple lie also if you dont believe in Jesus? Woudnt it be that because threre is 1 sin that cant be forgiven, even if you do. Its unforgiveable. I just think you are missing something becauese there would be no point in that verse, if it warns people who are already damned to Hell.

do you understand what im trying to say?

 

[gracealone]

Although I have ocd, it doesn't mean that Im still not guilty of this. I have laways regreted these even If thought them on my own. Does that make a diff?

Caty,
Of course it makes a difference... it makes all the difference. Robert is right about the desire of our heart. The problem is that OCD makes us question even that. There's always this distressing feeling of uncertainty that plagues us.
I could have spent the rest of my life trying to figure out whether I'd truly "believed good enough" to be saved just like you're trying to figure out if your doomed because of speaking or thinking some blasphemy which is not in line with what your heart really desires. I can just hear you're OCD right now... (I'm rather well aquainted with it)... "but what if when I said it I really wanted to say it... I mean I don't think I did but maybe I did... etc... etc... etc.." You've nothing left to do but follow Christ, obey Him, serve Him - with or without comfortable feelings. Faith is about allegiance to God and our allegiance to Him is demonstrated by our walk. Therefore... walk. Tell the OCD that you don't have any more time to waste chasing those doubts. Everytime you go chase them you teach your brain that they are urgent and valid. That's why you are having such a hard time letting them go.
Do you believe this? Your experience isn't different or unique in quality from many others with OCD. It's actually classic. That doesn't mean it's not painful and distressing. But it is OCD.
Love you,
Mitzi

 

[Caty]

I dont know what shape Im in (spiritually) but I really just dont want to be a evil person. I dont want to mean the thoughts. Like a few min ago. I was rearranging my room and my book case just collapsed and it broke. now I know that it is because it wasn't in good condidtion and I had stuff in it trying to move it. But after it happened I didn't think one bad thing about God. and I was SO proud of myself. But then after that my mom kinda fussed at me for moving it and i realized that there was no where I could have really moved it and I felt bad and anxious. and I started having thoughts like, "why did this have to happen?" but I realize that its just a stupid bookcase and it shouldnt matter, but how do I know if I meant it or not or if I said it out loud. I DONT know if I spoke anything. I hope I didnt but do I hope because Im scared of Hell, OH YES. but do I hope I didnt for Gods sake, I dont know...So am I just an evil person who is afraid of hell or do I want God. & almost sure its just because im afraid of Hell.

I know I also shouldnt be making excuses for myself but how can I love a God, that I dont even know. & how can I love a God who I feel like doesnt care about me and is sending me to Hell for (what started as ocd). I cant get a good image of God. But then I think that if He really wants to save me and I can be saved (which is immpossible if Ive said these things out of hate of Him) then I am even more devestated that Ive thought/maybe said these things.

 

[annrobert]

no one goes to hell for telling a lie or any reason except for not believing in Jesus and coming to Him for forgiveness and cleansing and life.The only reason a person goes to hell is for rejecting Jesus.

All sins are forgiveable except not believing in Jesus and coming to Him for cleansing and forgiveness and life.

The reason they are not forgiven is because they do not come and ask.
That does not have forgiveness.



If they come and ask they are not cast out.

Therefore the only reason for not having forgiveness is because of not believing in Jesus and not asking.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


John 3
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


John 6

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out



47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.


See caty,

every single person who believes in Jesus and wants Jesus is welcome to come

and will in no wise be cast out.

Every single person who believes in Jesus and asks for forgiveness and cleansing and life is welcome .

Every single person who wants may come

whosoever will may come.

There is nothing to be afraid of.

Jesus welcomes every to come and freely drink from the Water of Life.

He will never cast you out.

Jesus loves you.

Jesus is Love and Truth.

Jesus is full of mercy and compassion.

come just as you and ask

drink freely


blessings
annrobert

 

[annrobert]

but I really just dont want to be a evil person

Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

romans 3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


romans 9

30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Caty]

If they come and ask they are not cast out.

Therefore the only reason for not having forgiveness is because of not believing in Jesus and not asking.

But what I mean is something we see as simple as a lie isn't forgiveable if you don't come to Jesus. So why would He single out one thing, like that sin. and right before He warned against the unforgiveable sin, He said ALL other ones were forgiveable other than speaking agaisnt the Holy Spirit. I don't even know who I am. I don't know if I want God. I don't know if I love/like/hate/want/care for/ God. All I know is that I think terrible things that scare me because Im going to spend and eternity in Hell. I look at other people who I know for a fact could come to God and spend an eternity in heaven with Him, and they are SO lucky. But they won't and here I am, wanting Him but I was too stupied to hold onto it.

When I have the thoughts I look back and wonder if I could have stopped them or when I have moments of intense doubt and it seems as though I couldnt have stopped them. But then I think, why in the world would you think that. You are horrible and you have ruined your chance.

& like right now I know that yes, Im afraid of Hell. But I also want a relationship with Him.

& if someone has made up thoughts that call the Holy Spirit bad things, and they regret it mins, hours, or days later does that mean that their heart is bad or that they have a good heart? because I mean whats done is done, after the thought happens.

I talked to a preache once and He laughed at me when I asked about the unforgiveable sin and when I asked if I could committ it in thought. he said no, and that God would not hold my thoughts against me. But when he described his version of the unforgiveable sin, he have me a stern look of dissappointment and he had fear in his eyes, and he said, "you havent done THAT have you." and I said no, but what if I woudl have said yes, would He have told me right there that I was going to Hell???? I've just had really bad experiances. & I'm so scared that Ive commited this sin.

I know I get on your all nerves and Im gonna try and get myself another app for some meds. But Ive heard that people still fear the uf-sin and that meds dont stop that fear. I dont know what will...

 

[annrobert]

He said ALL other ones were forgiveable

Jesus did not say all other sins

Jesus said all sins shall be forgiven unto man

Jesus said whosoever will may come

so it is those who do not come that need to worry , not those who come

here I am, wanting Him but I was too stupied to hold onto it.

Jesus holds His sheep in His hand and none can pluck them out

we can do nothing of ourselves

Im gonna try and get myself another app for some meds

I think that may be a good idea

But Ive heard that people still fear the uf-sin and that meds dont stop that fear

It may be worth it to try and medication does help many people,
also seeing a professional for counselling may help

 

[Caty]

& when you all talk about someones heart being a major factor how do you know when someones heart is bad. because even if I might think bad things in my dark moments when i feel God has abandon me. when i have horrible thoughts (like what the pharasiess said) in my dark moments or when i get angry at Him. doesnt that scream that i have a bad heart?

 

[annrobert]

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:


Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

John 15:4
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me.


John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing.


We can always ask for all the things we need, we can be very open with Jesus and ask Him to do these things for us and Jesus will answer us.King David requested these things from Jesus and was answered.

King David prayed this way and was a man after God's own heart.


When we ask Jesus for good things He answers us.


Psalm 51


1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem. 19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

 

[Caty]

I have asked God to change my heart if it's bad. & im still this way.
But that doen't answer my question?