New or Grew?

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It took 271 years before Newton's thought experiment came to fruition with Sputnik.

From that perspective 'soon' might be a lot sooner than later.

It's all relative...

 

[lesliedellow]

The universe is old because God created it old.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, however, can lead to the conclusion that it grew old over a period of time.

What say you?

Is the universe old because God created it old? or is it old because it grew old?

Why, pray, did God create zircon crystals, which show every sign of being billions of years old when, in fact, they are only 6,000 years old? Did he have to create them as “adults?”

 

[AV1611VET]

Why, pray, did God create zircon crystals,

QV please:

There is a considerable number of further uses and it is clear from emerging research and development that zircon will continue to play an even greater role in the technological advances of the modern era.

SOURCE

... which show every sign of being billions of years old when,

Maturity without history.

... in fact, they are only 6,000 years old?

Physically they are either 6000 years old, or they are billions of years old; they can't be both.

Did he have to create them as “adults?”

He created them as "adults," yes.

As far as "did He have to," I would say, no, but creating them with maturity would obviously be faster than creating them without history, then having to wait billions of years for they to mature, so they can be used in technological advances of the modern era.

 

[lesliedellow]

As far as "did He have to," I would say, no, but creating them with maturity would obviously be faster than creating them without history, then having to wait billions of years for they to mature, so they can be used in technological advances of the modern era.

Rubbish again. If the creation was miraculous it wouldn’t take even one nano second to create zircon crystals with all the appearance of being billions of years old. A mere act of God’s will would bring it about instantaneously.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the creation was miraculous it wouldn’t take even one nano second to create zircon crystals with all the appearance of being billions of years old. A mere act of God’s will would bring it about instantaneously.

Then He would be accused of "omphalos" or "last thursday," wouldn't He?

The fact is, in 4004 BC, God created zircon crystals during the Creation Week (fully-mature, but without a history), to be used during the modern era.

 

[lesliedellow]

Then He would be accused of "omphalos" or "last thursday," wouldn't He?

He wouldn’t be accused of anything if he didn’t create crystals in a deliberately deceptive state.

The fact is, in 4004 BC, God created zircon crystals during the Creation Week (fully-mature, but without a history), to be used during the modern era.

Zircon crystals are only used to extract the chemical element zirconium, and they can be any old age for that. Unlike
the crystals, there is nothing in the chemical element to betray how long ago the atoms were formed.

 

[AV1611VET]

He wouldn’t be accused of anything if he didn’t create crystals in a deliberately deceptive state.

He didn't, and He is.

Zircon crystals are only used to extract the chemical element zirconium,

Nice.

... and they can be any old age for that.

Neat-o.

What's your point?

You say they can be "any old age," but when God made them billions of years old, you seem to have an issue with that.

What's up, chief?

Unlike the crystals, there is nothing in the chemical element to betray how long ago the atoms were formed.

Spiffy.

 

[lesliedellow]

He didn't, and He is.

If you are to be believed, he did.

You say they can be "any old age," but when God made them billions of years old, you seem to have an issue with that.

When you make something, it is by definition brand new. A forger can try to give an “antique” he made yesterday the appearance of age, but it would still be brand new.

So to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, shall we add God the Forger or God the Deceiver?

 

[Frank Robert]

Then He would be accused of "omphalos" or "last thursday," wouldn't He?

The fact is, in 4004 BC, God created zircon crystals during the Creation Week (fully-mature, but without a history), to be used during the modern era.

The problem: God is outside of time, meaning that there is no difference to God between a micro second and billions of years.

 

[Ancient of Days]

The universe is old because God created it old.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, however, can lead to the conclusion that it grew old over a period of time.

What say you?

Is the universe old because God created it old? or is it old because it grew old?

The verse you quoted says the "heavens were of old" Not the earth. Even from a scientific standpoint hindsight will always be 20/20. You cannot surmise something is new unless you have the previous knowledge of what something that is old looks like. At the moment of creation it looked neither old or new, it just looked alive, as in the here and now without the knowledge of a past or future.

"Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, however, can lead to the conclusion that it grew old over a period of time."

I disagree, in all reality the only thing that would show age and maintain a perception of age is a dead tree but then eventually it is consumed to create life again. Its all about our starting points that create a full spectrum of beleif. You either beleive God did it the way he said he did it or you dont. And if you dont then you create your own view of the past: IE: evolution...

 

[Shemjaza]

The verse you quoted says the "heavens were of old" Not the earth. Even from a scientific standpoint hindsight will always be 20/20. You cannot surmise something is new unless you have the previous knowledge of what something that is old looks like. At the moment of creation it looked neither old or new, it just looked alive, as in the here and now without the knowledge of a past or future.

"Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, however, can lead to the conclusion that it grew old over a period of time."

I disagree, in all reality the only thing that would show age and maintain a perception of age is a dead tree but then eventually it is consumed to create life again. Its all about our starting points that create a full spectrum of beleif. You either beleive God did it the way he said he did it or you dont. And if you dont then you create your own view of the past: IE: evolution...

An alternative way of looking at this is: you believe the evidence of the world around you... or you believe that your particular preferred interpretation of scripture is unquestionable.

 

[dlamberth]

You either beleive God did it the way he said he did it or you dont. And if you dont then you create your own view of the past: IE: evolution...

I absolutely believe what the Earth itSelf is showing us because the Earth cannot lie. And that is of a very old age, always changing and evolving in itself along with the life that inhabits it.

 

[AV1611VET]

When you make something, it is by definition brand new.

It may be brand new, but it can be as old as the hills.

QV my canoe challenge thread:

I cut down a 1000-year-old tree, hollow it out and make a canoe out of it; all in a day's time.

How old is the canoe when I'm finished?

 

[AV1611VET]

The problem: God is outside of time, meaning that there is no difference to God between a micro second and billions of years.

Neat.

 

[dlamberth]

QV my canoe challenge thread:

The Canoe is a new physical item made out of a very old living being. The Canoe is not the tree. But the tree is in the Canoe. Which is pretty much how God is manifested in Nature.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Canoe is a new physical item made out of a very old living being. The Canoe is not the tree. But the tree is in the Canoe. Which is pretty much how God is manifested in Nature.

How old is the canoe?

 

[dlamberth]

How old is the canoe?

Tell me when it was made and I’ll tell you how old it is.

 

[VirOptimus]

The universe is old because God created it old.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, however, can lead to the conclusion that it grew old over a period of time.

What say you?

Is the universe old because God created it old? or is it old because it grew old?

Its the age it is, no data supporting any god(s) which have nothing to do with the age of the universe anyway.

 

[lesliedellow]

It may be brand new, but it can be as old as the hills.

That just has to be capstone of creationist logic.

 

[dlamberth]

How old is the canoe?

Maybe we can also ask how old people are. Perhaps one way to look at it is that we are made of star dust. How old is star dust?