New genes found that can arise 'from nothing'

[AV1611VET]

OK - since you've insulted those who practice the science of taxonomy, perhaps you could explain your reasoning - preferably without the snarky overtones.

OB

What do those who practice the science of taxonomy think of flying squirrels?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

I thought that the laws of physics taught us that nothing can arise from nothing and that energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It's telling that "from Nothing" in the title is in parenthesis. The actual article doesn't say it's from nothing. What it says is "Experts at the Institute of Biotechnology, University of Helsinki, Finland, resolved this mystery, describing a mechanism that can instantaneously generate complete DNA palindromes and thus create new microRNA genes from previously noncoding DNA sequences."

The first law of thermodynamics is not being violated. "From nothing" is being used here to mean "not from prviously existing copied gene, but a whole new gene" as has been pointed out.

So, they describe a "mechanism" that somehow (that's not explained, I hate it when they don't explain how) can create mRNA from previously non-coded DNA sequences. That's a far cry from nothing.

They did, in fact, explain how. It's explained in great detail with pictures and everything. Look:

Somehow I think even with that explanation included you won't accept it either.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

No it's not interesting. It's the idiocy of taxonomy.

Orly? What system do you personally use? "Kinds"?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

What do those who practice the science of taxonomy think of flying squirrels?

They think:

Scientific classification
Genera
Domain:	Eukaryota
Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Class:	Mammalia
Order:	Rodentia
Family:	Sciuridae
Subfamily:	Sciurinae
Tribe:	Pteromyini Brandt, 1855
So, this is fun - God apparently created 16 different, genetically unique, original "kinds" of flying squirrel, based on your definition of "kind." There were 16 pairs of flying squirrels on the Ark apparently. Aeretes Aeromys Belomys Biswamoyopterus Eoglaucomys Eupetaurus Glaucomys Hylopetes Iomys Petaurillus Petaurista Petinomys Priapomys Pteromys Pteromyscus Trogopterus

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think the onus is on me to explain anything. I think the burden of proof is on people who believe in taxonomy to explain the relevance of taxonomy.

Chesterton, to be fair to taxonomy for a second, I was told once that a zookeeper was putting on a falcon and eagle show in his avian section of the zoo.

He housed the two species of birds together, but noticed that the falcons (or the eagles ... can't remember which) were always getting sick.

The vet couldn't explain it, so the zookeeper called in an expert on cladistics, who told the zookeeper that his problem was that he was feeding both species of birds the same brand of food; and since they were two different species, they needed different diets.

After the zookeeper changed their diet, the problem cleared up.

I believe God opened our eyes to taxonomy today for this very reason.

But in no way, shape, or form do I believe taxonomy has a right to say we came from other animals.

God has opened our eyes to a lot of things recently, but science uses that knowledge against Him.

 

[AV1611VET]

They think:

All those fancy words, and they still call them "flying squirrels" ... interesting.

There were 16 pairs of flying squirrels on the Ark apparently.

Is that all?

Maybe there were more, but some went extinct?

 

[Nithavela]

I thought that the laws of physics taught us that nothing can arise from nothing and that energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It's telling that "from Nothing" in the title is in parenthesis. The actual article doesn't say it's from nothing. What it says is "Experts at the Institute of Biotechnology, University of Helsinki, Finland, resolved this mystery, describing a mechanism that can instantaneously generate complete DNA palindromes and thus create new microRNA genes from previously noncoding DNA sequences." So, they describe a "mechanism" that somehow (that's not explained, I hate it when they don't explain how) can create mRNA from previously non-coded DNA sequences. That's a far cry from nothing.

The explanation is probably in the linked paper and likely takes a lot of knowledge to fully understand. But if you want to read it, you can get it for 10 dollar (which is a steal when it comes to academic publishing).

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2310752120

 

[partinobodycular]

I thought that the laws of physics taught us that nothing can arise from nothing

That's not physics, that's philosophy. What's really interesting is that although the Catholic Church teaches "Creatio ex nihilo"... creation from nothing... not even its great philosopher Aquinas believed that that was actually true. Aquinas believed like Aristotle did, that all matter was derived from something called 'Prime Matter'.

Catholics will argue that in Stephen Hawking's hypothesis that matter can arise from nothing... Hawking's 'nothing' isn't actually nothing. But in the same manner Aquinas argued that in the Catholic Church's "Creatio ex nihilo" the church's 'nothing' wasn't actually nothing either.

So it would seem that in the adage 'nothing comes from nothing' it depends on what one means by 'nothing'.

​

 

[Chesterton]

Orly? What system do you personally use? "Kinds"?

I don't use a system. I'm a freethinker.

Chesterton, to be fair to taxonomy for a second, I was told once that a zookeeper was putting on a falcon and eagle show in his avian section of the zoo.

He housed the two species of birds together, but noticed that the falcons (or the eagles ... can't remember which) were always getting sick.

The vet couldn't explain it, so the zookeeper called in an expert on cladistics, who told the zookeeper that his problem was that he was feeding both species of birds the same brand of food; and since they were two different species, they needed different diets.

After the zookeeper changed their diet, the problem cleared up.

I believe God opened our eyes to taxonomy today for this very reason.

But in no way, shape, or form do I believe taxonomy has a right to say we came from other animals.

God has opened our eyes to a lot of things recently, but science uses that knowledge against Him.

So what is Pluto? And whatever your answer is, does your answer matter?