New dating rules?

[dayhiker]

I came across this quote:
Chiara Atik, author of Modern Dating: A Field Guide. We all get that the rules of traditional courtship — in which men make every single advance and women demur or acquiesce — are dead, but we haven’t replaced them with a new standard operating procedure. “Everyone's being kind of wishy-washy,” Atik says. “Women want sex, but they don't want to be seen as forward (or worse, desperate). Men want sex but are intimidated, unconfident, or don't want to be seen as domineering. We're not sure who should be the sexual instigators, and then no one really steps up to the plate.”

Now this isn't consistent with what most Christians are thinking about sex, but I think Christian men are still feeling "intimidated, unconfident, or don't want to be seen as domineering." Plus Christian men also seem to feel worthy of Christian women because we still have a lot of lust in our hearts. At least this is how I'm reading quite a few comments that I've read from this site.

Thought I'd see if any of you had any thoughts about this.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I came across this quote:
Chiara Atik, author of Modern Dating: A Field Guide. We all get that the rules of traditional courtship — in which men make every single advance and women demur or acquiesce — are dead, but we haven’t replaced them with a new standard operating procedure. “Everyone's being kind of wishy-washy,” Atik says. “Women want sex, but they don't want to be seen as forward (or worse, desperate). Men want sex but are intimidated, unconfident, or don't want to be seen as domineering. We're not sure who should be the sexual instigators, and then no one really steps up to the plate.”

Now this isn't consistent with what most Christians are thinking about sex, but I think Christian men are still feeling "intimidated, unconfident, or don't want to be seen as domineering." Plus Christian men also seem to feel worthy of Christian women because we still have a lot of lust in our hearts. At least this is how I'm reading quite a few comments that I've read from this site.

Thought I'd see if any of you had any thoughts about this.

Does the book youre reading address these points ??? ---

Question : Why is casual sex so wrong if no one gets
hurt and everyone's having a good time?


Answer :

1. You were not made for that by the Creator of us all. He gave us
moral boundaries so we would not hurt ourselves and others.
2. The Creator established absolute moral laws so we could live
properly and dignified . Our greatest happiness and fulfillment comes
from being in good relationship and standing to our Creator. , and not
from we want to do .
3. A condom will NOT prevent all STD's , plus, condoms come off during
passion, they rip, and they get misapplied . Further, a condom does
not prevent against emotional harm that occurs ...usually moreso for
the woman.
4. The sex act between two people is not only for pleasure, but it is
designed to cement an already good emotional relationship into a
stronger one. Casual hookup sex disregards this which often leads to
people feeling fragmented . , like a tramp later on, and having shared
something very personal with someone who doesnt care about them.
5. Sex was meant to be accompanied with lifelong commitment as in
marriage ; sex is THE most intimate side of a person and it is
supposed to be done in an environment of great safety and security and
privacy .
6. The more One has casual hookup sex, the more desensitized they
become regarding how they view the opposite sex . Guys subconsciously
start to think of women as worthless disposable things which
eventually increases in time. Women start to use a guy for sex so they
can get their emotional tank filled temporarily -- they trade sex for
getting some degree of affection and feeling valued. They get to the
point where they become mechanical and need a re-fix to fill their
emotional tank .
7. Pregnancy can and does result from casual sex and this accounts for
95% of ALL abortions performed . The devastating life time effects for
the woman increases her chance of suicide, depression, anxiety, and
regret especially around the anniversary of the abortion . The
'Mother' knows that she killed her developing baby at the alter of
sexual hedonism even if she tries hard to people who tell her 'its
just a blob' . The 'blob' had a heartbeat at just 18 days old -- most
abortions occur between 12-18 weeks when the baby is developed
substantially . 95% of abortions = 4,000 per day .... murdered
developing american life .
8. Virtually EVERYTHING our culture portrays, is dangerous to oneself
because its philosophies are all about self absorbsion , using others
for selfish gain, taking advantage of others, ego building, and
apathy , etc... We live in a very wrong culture . Its it good and
noble to go against such.
9. A consentual Partner doesnt make a wrong , right ; it makes it a
greater wrong because 2 people double it and are fooled by it.
10. The Creators plan is to have your wedding night as special as
possible so you can say you and your wife waited for each other. This
is a commitment that is highly cherised between two marriage partners.
If youve already blown this, there is a second chance for you to do it
right and God will bless your commitment and help you wait for your
future spouse.
11. We dont have to use our sexual nature. Nothing falls off if we
dont. Realize that our mass media promotes immoral sex for financial
gain and they do not care about you. Purity is a very good thing and
it builds self respect .
12. Some things may be fun, but are very wrong and destructive. And
looking at all the consequences to casual sex including the prevailing
national STD epidemic which is literally killing people early...people
ARE getting hurt and worse. Further, jealous b/f's want to get even ,
divorce occurs due to consenual adultery, and peoples trust levels get
shattered often for life .
13. There is a good feeling to be had from NOT following an out of
control morally degrading Culture and instead living for God . And, he
freely blesses such a life if you are willing to move toward him and
his loving protective laws.

 

[dayhiker]

David,
The quote was in an article I was reading.
Your 13 points miss what I was asking and the direction of the thread I started.

Yet I've have found most of your 13 points to be an extreme view of sexual pain, that I don't experience. Nor do I find most of the points in the Bible.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Wow TheyCallMeDavid, excellent post!

I don't think women want sex as much as they want to be loved and cherished. Sex is just the icing on the cake of a great marriage IMO. But it is not the end all be all for me. I would prefer to be loved and cherished for who I am as a person, not for the amount of sex, or how good I might be at the act itself. Even in marriage, alot of women feel used because their husbands demand a certain amount of sex with no regard for their feelings. Or maybe the wife has become less attractive and she knows how her man feels about her physical self, but he still wants sex and that can be really hard to enjoy when you know your partner doesn't find you physically attractive. Kind of dampens the mood.
So being loving and caring is more important to me. Caring about things I am interested in, and I would likewise (and have) do the same. Caring about how I feel and our relationship with God and how we can honor him are all much more valuable to me than sex.
I think we give a piece of ourselves to each person we have sex with. And it's something we can never get back.
Plus, for me, it would be hard if not impossible to be with someone that has been with alot of women because we have to think about that nowadays. I don't want to be with someone like that because I would be thinking about all the women he has been with.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

BTW I would be interested in talking about other new dating rules.

Like does the guy still pay? or how do you know? Or is it whoever asks the other out that pays? I honestly don't have a clue. I would think if I asked someone out, that either we would go dutch or I would pay because I asked him out. But I am pretty clueless.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

David,
The quote was in an article I was reading.
Your 13 points miss what I was asking and the direction of the thread I started.

Yet I've have found most of your 13 points to be an extreme view of sexual pain, that I don't experience. Nor do I find most of the points in the Bible.

I realize that what i posted was an adjunct to what you were reading. However, i felt it would be beneficial for you to consider the 13 points because most secular books on sex are grossly biased toward the prevailing cultures sexually illicit lifestyle. So, what i gave you in the 13 points, are based on biblical principles either very directly or closely associated .

It is entirely up to you how you process what i gave you.

 

[dayhiker]

Michelle, I agree that almost all encounters to be meaningful have to have caring and compassion for the other other to be meaningful. I've learned in the last year plus that I knew very little about physical intimacy and by extension about emotional intimacy. Thank God I found a place to learn it. Its really upped the amount of love I have in my life and the amount I give as well.
Back in college I took a test. One category contrasted compassion with logical. I was 99th percentile logical and the test said I should seriously spend some time dealing with that imbalance. In the past week I've had two women comment on how much compassion they have seen me I show. Now neither of these was asked for.
I agree that when we have sex with someone they get part of our soul. But then I find when I have a meaningful conversation with a person, male or female, they get part of my soul as well. I also get part of their soul. As I've watched this phenomenon in my own life I find that when this happens be it sexual or a heart to heart conversation that this is when real healing takes place in our lives. So I look for these life exchanges as the most meaningful times to share my faith in Christ with other people. The result again is that I've been witnessing and non Christians have listened to my testimony than in decades.

Good stuff.

 

[dayhiker]

Thanks David for being concern with what will benefit me. I've read studied and meditated on these things for 45 years including 3+ years of detail study where I spent a lot of time making sure I followed the historical grammatical hermeneutic principles I was taught in Bible college. So I've known and meditated on the 13 points your article listed and many others a lot.

I realize that what i posted was an adjunct to what you were reading. However, i felt it would be beneficial for you to consider the 13 points because most secular books on sex are grossly biased toward the prevailing cultures sexually illicit lifestyle. So, what i gave you in the 13 points, are based on biblical principles either very directly or closely associated .

It is entirely up to you how you process what i gave you.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

So would you guys get offended if someone you asked out wanted to meet you at the place instead of being picked up?

I ask, because to me, if someone is sincere in their actions, they wouldn't get offended. Like if someone gets mad because you don't trust them, you're probably right not to trust them because if they had nothing to hide they would not take it personally and look at it from the other person's perspective, like if the other person had been with someone prior that was untrustable.

 

[dayhiker]

I think there is no defined rule anymore. There are some men and women who expect the guy to pay for everything. But I'm finding most of my relationships we talk about how we are going to handle it.

This past weekend I paid for mt GF to fly to visit me. We eat out 3 times and she insisted that she pay for those 3 meals.

There have been dates I've been on where I know the lady is short on finances I always plan on paying in those cases.

Another lady I see about once every 2 weeks. We generally split the cost of the meal.

In large groups sometimes the bills are separated, other times they are all combined in one. When they are combined it seems like the tips is very small when the money is counted, so I've generally been putting in 1.5-2x the cost of my food.

So it can appear complex, but generally its a short conversation. Since I don't have to pinch pennies and its at most 1 or 2 meals a week I can be more generous. But if someone says they want to pay, I thanks them and accept that gift graciously.

BTW I would be interested in talking about other new dating rules.

Like does the guy still pay? or how do you know? Or is it whoever asks the other out that pays? I honestly don't have a clue. I would think if I asked someone out, that either we would go dutch or I would pay because I asked him out. But I am pretty clueless.

 

[dayhiker]

I think any one who is doing dating sites has meet someone at a public location and understand why this is. So they shouldn't be offended. A person who is offended is ignorant of what modern dating life is like IMO.

So would you guys get offended if someone you asked out wanted to meet you at the place instead of being picked up?

I ask, because to me, if someone is sincere in their actions, they wouldn't get offended. Like if someone gets mad because you don't trust them, you're probably right not to trust them because if they had nothing to hide they would not take it personally and look at it from the other person's perspective, like if the other person had been with someone prior that was untrustable.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

So would you guys get offended if someone you asked out wanted to meet you at the place instead of being picked up?

I ask, because to me, if someone is sincere in their actions, they wouldn't get offended. Like if someone gets mad because you don't trust them, you're probably right not to trust them because if they had nothing to hide they would not take it personally and look at it from the other person's perspective, like if the other person had been with someone prior that was untrustable.

a. Nope, not at all. I appreciate a womans concern for her safety and would gladly oblige in this regard.

b. Each Gender should realize by now , that, trust is something to be earned and not blindly given to someone youve just met or are starting a Friendship possibly leading to a committed relationship . If a guy feels offended , then he is too insensitive to your needs as a woman and therefore take a pass on him .

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

OK so for me, if a guy DID ask me out for dinner or whatever, I WOULD expect him to pay. Is that wrong of me?

And I don't think I would ask the guy out but IF I DID, I would feel obligated to pay, unless he insisted once we got there. But I can't see myself asking someone out so...

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

OK so for me, if a guy DID ask me out for dinner or whatever, I WOULD expect him to pay. Is that wrong of me?

And I don't think I would ask the guy out but IF I DID, I would feel obligated to pay, unless he insisted once we got there. But I can't see myself asking someone out so...

He probably will expect to pay , but if he believes going Dutch is in order for the first couple of times...then dont be upset about that. Bring some money just in case.

If i meet a gal for the first time in Starbucks , then i do pay for coffee ... but i dont start the dinner thing until im quite sure that I see a good connection with her and having met my essential criteria . I can usually tell by the second meeting which way its going to go .

Its much more common today Michelle , for a gal to suggest a cup of coffee to chat ; but i wouldnt force yourself to do it unless you felt totally comfortable about doing it. I must say that as a Christian single Man, it is refreshing to have a woman show interest in Me with some sutelty ; it can be as simple as her approaching me to say hi and to chat while standing there.

 

[exitstageright]

Does the book youre reading address these points ??? ---

Question : Why is casual sex so wrong if no one gets
hurt and everyone's having a good time?


Answer :

1. You were not made for that by the Creator of us all. He gave us
moral boundaries so we would not hurt ourselves and others.
2. The Creator established absolute moral laws so we could live
properly and dignified . Our greatest happiness and fulfillment comes
from being in good relationship and standing to our Creator. , and not
from we want to do .
3. A condom will NOT prevent all STD's , plus, condoms come off during
passion, they rip, and they get misapplied . Further, a condom does
not prevent against emotional harm that occurs ...usually moreso for
the woman.
4. The sex act between two people is not only for pleasure, but it is
designed to cement an already good emotional relationship into a
stronger one. Casual hookup sex disregards this which often leads to
people feeling fragmented . , like a tramp later on, and having shared
something very personal with someone who doesnt care about them.
5. Sex was meant to be accompanied with lifelong commitment as in
marriage ; sex is THE most intimate side of a person and it is
supposed to be done in an environment of great safety and security and
privacy .
6. The more One has casual hookup sex, the more desensitized they
become regarding how they view the opposite sex . Guys subconsciously
start to think of women as worthless disposable things which
eventually increases in time. Women start to use a guy for sex so they
can get their emotional tank filled temporarily -- they trade sex for
getting some degree of affection and feeling valued. They get to the
point where they become mechanical and need a re-fix to fill their
emotional tank .
7. Pregnancy can and does result from casual sex and this accounts for
95% of ALL abortions performed . The devastating life time effects for
the woman increases her chance of suicide, depression, anxiety, and
regret especially around the anniversary of the abortion . The
'Mother' knows that she killed her developing baby at the alter of
sexual hedonism even if she tries hard to people who tell her 'its
just a blob' . The 'blob' had a heartbeat at just 18 days old -- most
abortions occur between 12-18 weeks when the baby is developed
substantially . 95% of abortions = 4,000 per day .... murdered
developing american life .
8. Virtually EVERYTHING our culture portrays, is dangerous to oneself
because its philosophies are all about self absorbsion , using others
for selfish gain, taking advantage of others, ego building, and
apathy , etc... We live in a very wrong culture . Its it good and
noble to go against such.
9. A consentual Partner doesnt make a wrong , right ; it makes it a
greater wrong because 2 people double it and are fooled by it.
10. The Creators plan is to have your wedding night as special as
possible so you can say you and your wife waited for each other. This
is a commitment that is highly cherised between two marriage partners.
If youve already blown this, there is a second chance for you to do it
right and God will bless your commitment and help you wait for your
future spouse.
11. We dont have to use our sexual nature. Nothing falls off if we
dont. Realize that our mass media promotes immoral sex for financial
gain and they do not care about you. Purity is a very good thing and
it builds self respect .
12. Some things may be fun, but are very wrong and destructive. And
looking at all the consequences to casual sex including the prevailing
national STD epidemic which is literally killing people early...people
ARE getting hurt and worse. Further, jealous b/f's want to get even ,
divorce occurs due to consenual adultery, and peoples trust levels get
shattered often for life .
13. There is a good feeling to be had from NOT following an out of
control morally degrading Culture and instead living for God . And, he
freely blesses such a life if you are willing to move toward him and
his loving protective laws.

Regarding point eleven,any part of the body,that is not or seldomly used,will cause atrophy.

at·ro·phy (

t

r

-f

)
n. pl. at·ro·phies 1. Pathology A wasting or decrease in size of a body organ, tissue, or part owing to disease, injury, or lack of use: muscular atrophy of a person affected with paralysis..

 

[dayhiker]

Good point Exit. Some Christian books I've read have listed as a bless how ones sexual desires will go away when we don't loose them. But I've not found a Bible verse that says this is what God desires, but I do read God created us male and female or He created us as sexual beings.

 

[exitstageright]

a. Nope, not at all. I appreciate a womans concern for her safety and would gladly oblige in this regard.

b. Each Gender should realize by now , that, trust is something to be earned and not blindly given to someone youve just met or are starting a Friendship possibly leading to a committed relationship . If a guy feels offended , then he is too insensitive to your needs as a woman and therefore take a pass on him .

Yes,we all have to be careful! Before I go out,just in case if a lady says,"Let's go to your place".I lock up my checkbooks,my cash,and my valubles at my place. I never accept a drink from a strange woman.Some women do entice guys, drug guys, and rob guys.

BTW on a related note. I have keep my New Year's resolution for almost 9 months now. I have not been to Mc 'Donalds,and I have not had any sex with hookers.

 

[exitstageright]

Good point Exit. Some Christian books I've read have listed as a bless how ones sexual desires will go away when we don't loose them. But I've not found a Bible verse that says this is what God desires, but I do read God created us male and female or He created us as sexual beings.

Thanks,Dayhiker. I am curious to know just how many others agree or disagree with me.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Good point Exit. Some Christian books I've read have listed as a bless how ones sexual desires will go away when we don't loose them. But I've not found a Bible verse that says this is what God desires, but I do read God created us male and female or He created us as sexual beings.

Maybe for guys, but I haven't experienced sexual desire going away for lack of it.

 

[dayhiker]

I've not experienced it either Michelle. From my research the ascetics from the early church advised Christians to live on a near starvation diet so they wouldn't have sexual desires. Its been calculated today that they were talking about 700 calories a day!

Most of those that say they are free from lust/desire today seem to be older men that have considered this stuff a sin much of their life and fought against it. I wonder if they also have high blood pressure and/or are taking meds that kill their desire.

Having a sexual desire and having the bits function are one of the things I use to evaluate how healthy I feel!