New creationist study accepts the existence of feathered dinosaurs

[SkyWriting]

So God isn't Love?

I wish you guys would make up your minds and stick to one story.

[EDIT] In this post apparently God is Energy/Mind/Thought. Seriously, do you guys have any idea what your chosen deity really is? Or does it change depending on what you need to argue at any given point?

I'm just energy. Or so I thought. With my mind.

 

[juvenissun]

I mean that I know a lot about it. During the seven years between when I accepted evolution (at age 12) and when I abandoned Christianity (at age 19), I put a lot of lot of thought into how to reconcile those two viewpoints with one another.

Also, in case you were wondering, the reason I stopped being a Christian was for reasons unrelated to my acceptance of evolution. I still think that Christianity is able to be reconciled with evolution, even though I'm no longer a Christian.

That is exactly what I meant. If you think a 19-years old boy knows a lot of religion (*not science), then I think you should hear some alarms.

I will NOT trust a bit on the religious view of any 19-years boy. To me, I simply heard that you stopped learning anything about Christianity since you were 19. What you can not learn at age 19 is: A religion is much more than a systematic knowledge.

 

[Aggie]

That is exactly what I meant. If you think a 19-years old boy knows a lot of religion (*not science), then I think you should hear some alarms.

I will NOT trust a bit on the religious view of any 19-years boy. To me, I simply heard that you stopped learning anything about Christianity since you were 19. What you can not learn at age 19 is: A religion is much more than a systematic knowledge.

If you understood the trauma I was going through during that part of my life, you would know that I was fully aware of this. Christianity is (or, is supposed to be) a personal relationship between someone and their Savior. But a friendship can't be a one-directional thing. In order to trust someone, there needs to be some assurance that they will display a certain degree of trustworthiness, and in my case God did not live up to the promises He had made in the Bible.

I'm not sure what CF's current rules allow with respect to criticism of Christianity, so so it probably isn't appropriate for me to go into more detail about this here. If you really want to know more about what happened to me that led to me abandoning my Christian faith, I'd recommend reading chapter 4A of my book, since I explain it in more detail there.

 

[juvenissun]

If you understood the trauma I was going through during that part of my life, you would know that I was fully aware of this. Christianity is (or, is supposed to be) a personal relationship between someone and their Savior. But a friendship can't be a one-directional thing. In order to trust someone, there needs to be some assurance that they will display a certain degree of trustworthiness, and in my case God did not live up to the promises He had made in the Bible.

I'm not sure what CF's current rules allow with respect to criticism of Christianity, so so it probably isn't appropriate for me to go into more detail about this here. If you really want to know more about what happened to me that led to me abandoning my Christian faith, I'd recommend reading chapter 4A of my book, since I explain it in more detail there.

I am not talking about you. I am talking about how much a 19-years old boy could know about Christianity. (even he got A+ in the course of Christian Theology, which is very possible)

Who is the youngest prophet in the old Israel? Who is the youngest prophet today? Is it possible for a young man of 19-years old to claim that he knows enough Christianity and determined that Christianity is false?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

I am not talking about you. I am talking about how much a 19-years old boy could know about Christianity. (even he got A+ in the course of Christian Theology, which is very possible)

Who is the youngest prophet in the old Israel? Who is the youngest prophet today? Is it possible for a young man of 19-years old to claim that he knows enough Christianity and determined that Christianity is false?

I think that's going too far - it isn't that a lot of us think it's false, more like "not currently convinced it's true" - of course, that's just my viewpoint, @Aggie might very well have another viewpoint, or even agree with yours... idk.

 

[juvenissun]

I think that's going too far - it isn't that a lot of us think it's false, more like "not currently convinced it's true" - of course, that's just my viewpoint, @Aggie might very well have another viewpoint, or even agree with yours... idk.

That is not what a 19-years boy would accustom to think. If he really thought so, he was not likely to leave his faith.

 

[Aggie]

I think that's going too far - it isn't that a lot of us think it's false, more like "not currently convinced it's true" - of course, that's just my viewpoint, @Aggie might very well have another viewpoint, or even agree with yours... idk.

I think that Christianity probably isn't true, but I remain open to being convinced otherwise. Every now and then, I pray that if I've made the wrong decision by reaching this conclusion, and if God really is the God that's described in the Bible, He'll offer me strong evidence of that. It hasn't happened yet.

A friend of mine who's a pastor has sometimes referred to Thomas from the Bible as "reasonable questions Thomas", for his demand to see evidence for something instead of believing it blindly. I agree with that assessment, and I think of myself in a similar way. There are so many false teachings in the world, demanding evidence is the only way to identify the ones that are true.

Here is one example of the sort of evidence I'd want to see before becoming a Christian again: an account of seeing the resurrected Christ that's written by someone who was not one of Jesus's disciples, for example by one of the Roman authorities. I think that his disciples had every reason to claim that Jesus had come back to life, regardless of whether it was actually true or not, since believing that made for a happier ending than just accepting that their leader had been executed. On the other hand, if the Romans had documented that the man they'd recently executed was now mysteriously alive again, I'd find that evidence a lot more compelling.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

That is not what a 19-years boy would accustom to think. If he really thought so, he was not likely to leave his faith.

So, you think every 19 year old would continue pretending they believe if they're not convinced it's true?

 

[juvenissun]

So, you think every 19 year old would continue pretending they believe if they're not convinced it's true?

A 19-years old Christian boy SHOULD do that. And, for his benefit, he should ask questions. I don't care how much he "understand" Christianity, he MUST have A LOT questions.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

A 19-years old Christian boy SHOULD do that. And, for his benefit, he should ask questions. I don't care how much he "understand" Christianity, he MUST have A LOT questions.

so, you're advocating he live a lie? How Christian is it to Lie btw, does this happen often among Christians??

This answers so much....!

 

[tas8831]

Here is one example of the sort of evidence I'd want to see before becoming a Christian again: an account of seeing the resurrected Christ that's written by someone who was not one of Jesus's disciples, for example by one of the Roman authorities. I think that his disciples had every reason to claim that Jesus had come back to life, regardless of whether it was actually true or not, since believing that made for a happier ending than just accepting that their leader had been executed. On the other hand, if the Romans had documented that the man they'd recently executed was now mysteriously alive again, I'd find that evidence a lot more compelling.

Along those same lines, a couple of events are claimed to have accompanied Christ's death - things that, had they occurred, must have been experienced by thousands and thousands if not millions of people (e.g., the sky going black, the dead rising from their graves, an earthquake as in Matthew).

Yet there seem to be no contemporaneous accounts of such things occurring. I had asked about this at one time, some years ago, and was confidently responded to by a believer that presented me with a link to a website, which referred to (and my memory is a bit sketchy on this, but the gist of my account is accurate) a letter written centuries later in which someone had asked about whether anyone knew of these events. THAT was the evidence presented - an inquiry as to the factual nature of these claims centuries after the fact.

At that time, I was little more than a nominal believer, but had realized that much bible lore was in effect a collection of tall tales and found such "evidence" not only far from compelling, but silly.

 

[juvenissun]

so, you're advocating he live a lie? How Christian is it to Lie btw, does this happen often among Christians??

This answers so much....!

What is the lie? Spell it out.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

What is the lie? Spell it out.

Saying he should continue to go to Church and pretend he believes in something he does not! That's a Lie!

 

[juvenissun]

Saying he should continue to go to Church and pretend he believes in something he does not! That's a Lie!

Claim a faith, but lack of faith is NOT a lie.
It is simply lack of faith.

This has been thoroughly studied in theology.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Claim a faith, but lack of faith is NOT a lie.
It is simply lack of faith.

This has been thoroughly studied in theology.

Yep, I've seen the quality of religious (especially YEC) "Study", suspect to say the least - He was already a long-term claimant of Faith when he left, you're advocating he continue to pretend he believes by going to Church even though he doesn't, are you not? Would you advocate that position for someone doubting the Jewish or Islamic faiths?

 

[juvenissun]

Yep, I've seen the quality of religious (especially YEC) "Study", suspect to say the least - He was already a long-term claimant of Faith when he left, you're advocating he continue to pretend he believes by going to Church even though he doesn't, are you not? Would you advocate that position for someone doubting the Jewish or Islamic faiths?

A teenager in doubt of his Christian faith SHOULD continue to attend church and continue to explore Christianity. Because he hasn't seen anything yet about Christianity.

Pretend or not, that is what I said. (use the provocative word is not useful)

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

A teenager in doubt of his Christian faith SHOULD continue to attend church and continue to explore Christianity. Because he hasn't seen anything yet about Christianity.

Pretend or not, that is what I said. (use the provocative word is not useful)

Would you advocate the same thing for an Islam or Jewish 19 year old doubting their faith? How about a Roman Catholic 19 year old? Mormon 19 year old? etc.

Is he able to freely tell people he no longer believes if he continues to go to Church? Should he go to another Church/Synagogue/Mosque with his current disbelief to explore other faiths that might be true?

 

[juvenissun]

Would you advocate the same thing for an Islam or Jewish 19 year old doubting their faith? How about a Roman Catholic 19 year old? Mormon 19 year old? etc.

Is he able to freely tell people he no longer believes if he continues to go to Church? Should he go to another Church/Synagogue/Mosque with his current disbelief to explore other faiths that might be true?

Of course I would.
Of course the 19-year can do whatever he likes. But if he did, he should not claim or suggest that he knows the religion he left "very well".

 

[DogmaHunter]

God is Spirit...so.....not much science has on that.
I guess they're not qualified.

Yes, science doesn't tend to have much on things that can't be shown to be real and which are indistinguishable from things that don't exist.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

It mentions that old-earth creationists exists, but the focus is on the YEC movement, since young-earth creationism is the perspective taken by all of the most prominent creationist organizations and journals.

So they are simply the most outspoken, not necessarily the predominant viewpoint? Even if they were, does majority opinion mean correct in science or religion????? Harlen Bretz or Kristian Birkeland are prime examples of majority does not equal correct. Along with Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo......