Never scripturally a pre antichrist rapture
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Douggg
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The great tribulation does not begin until after the Abomination of Desolation, the image of the beast is placed in the temple. The six trumpets are part of the great tribulation.
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Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)
Luk 21:5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,
Luk 21:6 "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."
(Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )
Luk 21:7 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"
(Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")
( Mar 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,
Mar 13:4 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")
Luk 21:8 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.
(Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )
Luk 21:9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."
(Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)
Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution
Luk 21:10 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )
Luk 21:12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)
Luk 21:13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.
Luk 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
Luk 21:15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
Luk 21:16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.
Luk 21:17 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.
(Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )
Luk 21:18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
Luk 21:19 By your patience possess your souls.
(Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
(Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
(Mat 24:16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)
Luk 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
(Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! )
Luk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
(Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)
Luk 21:26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luk 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)
Luk 21:28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
(Mat 24:33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)
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From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7
"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].
7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "
Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.
John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.
The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.
Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the same reference to flee in the second verse in each Gospel.
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Douggg
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Jesus referred to what the prophet Daniel said - not what Antiochus did.
Josephus apparently did not read Revelation about the image of the beast that will come to life and speak and breathe.
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The text says the Book of Daniel would be sealed to the time of the end.
It does not say the events in the book would all happen at the time of the end.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly referring to the same event, because we have exactly the same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in both accounts.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
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Douggg
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Not all of the events of Daniel 11, but the completion of those would be end times.
Daniel 11:35 picks up at the end times.
The abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11-12 is not described until the time of when Michael shall stand up for Daniel's people. And that being when it will be the worst time ever for Israel.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
The words regarding "these things" were closed up and sealed till the time of the end. That is just another way of saying when the events will happen.
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13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
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You have made a mistake.
The member you were responding to was Riberra, see your post #90, I asked the question of you that you asked of him.
"And where, may I ask, did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible?"
You have now launched into a personal attack based on your mistake.
Now I see how you think you accept something as truth and when it is pointed out that it is not, you still go full steam ahead based on the falsehood you have accepted as truth without stopping to look at the original "truth" to see if it is a falsehood.
I find it interesting in you response about you qualifications to teach you left out the Holy Spirit. Could it be that your education has gotten in the way of listening and verify the spirit by the word of GOD?
Example of one of your "truths" that is a falsehood is the separation of the last week of the 70 week prophecy and accrediting to the anti-christ instead of the fulfillment of that week by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ's, baptism, ministry, Death On the Cross, Resurrection and the Gospel going to the Gentiles.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people. Not 69 weeks then a couple of thousand years then the last week. Every time prophecy in the Bible has a starting point and an ending point that contains the continuous time given in the prophecy.
If you know of a prophecy other than the 70 week prophecy that has a TIME GAP in it please share it with me.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (and he is the giver of all prophecy)
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You neither read the Scriptures posted in 53 and 54 nor answer the questions about them I ask you.
1. Show me by the Scriptures where Jesus returns from heaven and takes anyone back to heaven with Him; when He returns to the earth in His second coming. That He will, when He comes to take His Church back to heaven with Him; in the first of His TWO comings, recorded in Jn.14:2-3 and 28, amplified by Paul, in 1 Thess.4:13-18.
2. How does the Bride/Church get into heaven for the marriage to the Lamb/Jesus, confirming the OT Jewish seven year marriage feast, before the tribulation begins, recorded symbolically in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7.
3. Explain why it is that Jesus will return in His second coming to the earth, from the marriage in heaven, while the tribulation is taking place on earth, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen [A sign of the righteous acts of the saints, recorded in Rev.19:8], white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in Rev.19:14, confirming Zech.13:4-5.
THE ABOVE ALL CLEARLY DELINEATE THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH, as recorded in the four post link below
:
The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...
Fully endorsed by the following, as recorded in the 4th of the posts in the above link:
.1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.
Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.
Quasar92
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Prophecy time charts
The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii
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The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy
Other time prophecies without GAPS
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Times_Chart.pdf
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Dan11_Chart.pdf
The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii
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The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy
Other time prophecies without GAPS
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Times_Chart.pdf
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Dan11_Chart.pdf
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I apologize for striking the wrong reply button. By the same token, your abrasive reply has many mistakes. Your question was answered.
<SNIP?
Quasar92
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Prophecy time charts
The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii
Copied fromFrom
The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy
Other time prophecies without GAPS
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Times_Chart.pdf
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Dan11_Chart.pdf
The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was by Artaxerxes in his 20th year of reign, recorded in Meh.2:1-8, in 445 B.C. Not in His 7th year, recorded in Ezra. The latter has nothing at all about rebuilding Jerusalem, but rather about the restoration of gold and silver object to he temple. See the following for the Scriptural facts about Dan.9:24-26:
eventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!
The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
1. Reference here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. [It has nothing at all to do with the church!]
2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.]
Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; [49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,] the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." [See Neh.2:1-8.]
According to Sir Robert Armstrong, of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC.
[From 445 B.C. to Messiah the Prince, in Dan.9:25, equates into 69 Weeks, or 483 years, leaving the 70th and final Week of 7 years yet to be fulfilled].
From the 69 weeks [Of years] from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.
Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 445 BC. and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
After Jesus was crucified, the Roman [prince] Titus comes with his legions and destroyed Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.
To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.
Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."
Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.
Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, [When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.]being [as was supposed] the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"
Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us.
Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. [According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]
Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a 365.2425 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made].
360 X 483 = 173,880 days.
1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days.
2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days.
3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years.
4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days
7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days = 173,880 days!
Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present 365.2425 day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.
The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!
Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
More about verse 27 and the gap between verses 26 and 27 later.
Quasar92
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Prophecy time charts
The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii
Copied fromFrom
The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy
Other time prophecies without GAPS
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Times_Chart.pdf
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Dan11_Chart.pdf
The Time Gap between Dan.9:26 and 27
My previous installment concluded the textual examination of Daniel 9:24-27. However, there are still other issues to deal with in relation to the passage and the postponement of the seventieth week from the first sixty-nine. These final articles will deal will a few concluding issues.
Critics of a Time Gap
Those who do not think that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 have a literal and chronologically precise fulfillment are opposed to the postponement of the seventieth week as a yet future time of seven years. Examples of such criticism can be found by those within the Reconstructionist movement, holding to a form of preterist postmillennialism. Gary DeMar complains:
Fellow preterist, Dr. Ken Gentry echoes DeMar’s refrain in the following:
Dr. Gentry is right about one thing, that the Daniel 9 passage is the only Messianic prophecy that specifically deal with chronology or the time element. While I believe that I have shown that the passage itself requires a chronological postponement between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years, it is also supported by other Messianic passages which are not specifically time oriented, but clearly do refer to distinct time-periods: Christ’s first coming and his second coming.
If anyone believes in the two comings of Christ, and both DeMar and Gentry do, then they also believe in a gap of time between the first and second coming of Christ. I want to show how this fits into a clear biblical pattern that in turn lends support to the notion of a gap of time in Daniel 9:24-27.
Two phases of Christ's career
It is obvious from the Bible that if you view the ministry or career of Christ in its entirety, then it is composed of two parts or phases. The first phase encompasses the first coming of Jesus two thousand years ago, while the second phase will consist of His second coming some time in the future. Yet many Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah commingled their descriptions of both phases of Christ into a single passage, without distinguishing between the two comings or phases of His earthly career.
It is commonly understood today that the Jews of the first century did not understand that these Old Testament prophecies spoke of a single Messiah who would come twice—once in humiliation, then again in glorious exaltation. We have learned that many Jews of Christ’s day thought that there would be two different Messiahs—Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. Messiah ben Joseph would be one who suffers and dies, but is immediately followed by Messiah ben David, who reigns in glory. The reality of Scripture is that there is but one Messiah—Jesus of Nazareth—who comes twice. This means that there is a gap of time between the two comings.
Even though preterists like DeMar and Gentry belittle a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel 9:24-27, they are driven to believe in a gap of time between the two comings. DeMar and Gentry even believe in a gap, so far, of almost 2,000 years. Yet this time-gap is not explicitly stated in Scripture. So how can DeMar and Gentry hold to something like a gap of time that not explicitly stated in Scripture? Because the only possible implication that can be deduced from the facts of Christ’s two comings is that there is a time-gap between the two events. In like manner, such a time-gap must also follow from the fact that Christ has a career that is two-phased.
Why is this important to our study of the seventy weeks of Daniel? It is important, because as Gentry noted above, "An overriding concern of the prophecy, in distinction to all other Messianic prophecies is that it is specifically designed to be a measuring time-frame." True, so true, Dr. Gentry. Yet, you believe in a gap of time between the two comings of Christ, even though it is not specifically stated in the Bible. In the same way, I would argue that all other Messianic passages that speak of the two aspects or phases of the career of Messiah also must imply that they are fulfilled at the two comings of Christ, . . . with a gap of time in between. This means that there are many similar passages that speak in a single statement of items that encompass both phases of Christ’s career—the first and second advents. However, as Dr. Gentry has noted, only the Daniel 9:24-27 passage deals specifically with measuring time. This explains why the Daniel passage is the only Messianic text that deals specifically with a time frame. However, a significant number of other Messianic passages have something in common with the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27. They all speak of components of Christ’s career that will take place in the two phases of His two advents. Only the Daniel text speaks of time factors.
Two-Phased Messianic Passages
This means that it is legitimate to argue for a gap of time from the other Messianic passages that also include, in a single passage, the two elements of Christ’s career. Dr. Randall Price makes note of the way Scripture uses time gaps and provides a list of passages that fit into this category in the following statement:
Perhaps the most well-known example of the kind of prophecy about which I speak is found in Christ’s reading of Isaiah 61:1-2 as recorded in Luke 4:16-30. The passage reads as follows:
Tim LaHaye and I have a chart diagramming this passage in our new book called Charting the End Times. We say concerning this passage:
Another example of what some have called "double reference" is found in Zechariah 9:9-10. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum says concerning double reference:
In the same context we see that verse nine refers to Christ’s first coming:
Verse ten is a reference only to Christ’s second coming as follows:
In the Zechariah passage, there has to be a gap of time between the fulfillment of the verse nine that relates to Messiah’s first coming two thousand years ago, and His second advent, which is still a yet future event. Even though no time factor is explicitly stated in the text, because of the specific nature of the events described in the two verses, a gap of time is required to coordinate the fulfillment of this prophecy with the events of history.
Conclusion
The point that I am making in this article, relating to the seventy weeks of Daniel prophecy, is that it is not unreasonable to find implied time gaps in a significant number of Messianic passages in the Old Testament. I am not saying that this proves that there is in fact a gap in Daniel 9:24-27, I believe that I have demonstrated that in the earlier installments in this series. I think that this article demonstrates that it is not unreasonable to expect a Messianic passage that requires a time-gap between the fulfillment of all events prophesied in that passage. This supports our literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. Maranatha!
By Thomas Ice, PhD
http://www.raptureme.com/featured/70-weeks-11.html [This link is no longer up]
Quasar92
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Apology accepted.
Question why did it take so many post to get you to acknowledge the mistake? It appears that you do not read and digest responses to your posts. In the future give some consideration to other views that respond to you instead of brushing them off with long posts.
Please reread some of your posts and you will see that they are abrasive also.
Also please provide a prophecy other than the 70 week prophecy that has a GAP in the Timing.
Awaiting you detailed answer
Have a Blessed Holy Sabbath Day. Because only GOD can make something Holy.
and the TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE
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As a 94 year old WWII vet, living alone, independently, I have been around the block many times more than you have. There are more posts based upon nothing but opinion, I do not answer, except or those with Scriptural support. I do not need to reread any of my posts, because I know what I write.
I suggest you mind your own kitchen and consider how well you will do, as a person in your mid 90's, iiving alone, when everything you do, is your responsibility. Answering your posts is not all there is for me to do. Capiche?!
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iamlamad
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I take it you don't believe there is a gap in time in Daniel 9 between verse 26 and 27?Prophecy time charts
The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii
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The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy
Other time prophecies without GAPS
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Times_Chart.pdf
http://www.islamandchristianity.org/~islama8/study-guides/Dan11_Chart.pdf
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Obviously....As I said the 6 Trumpets plagues [Revelation 8 -- Revelation 9] will precede the 42 months reign of the Beast [Revelation 13].....
-The 42 months reign of the Beast will be the Second Half of the Tribulation which is related to the THIRD WOE ie the 7 TH Trumpet.
-The WRATH of GOD [Revelation 16]will happen at some point during the 42 months reign of the Beast...to avenge the blood of the Christians ...
-We are not appointed to the Wrath of God [Revelation 16]....but the Christians that will be alive in those times will be exposed to the wrath of Satan and the Beast [Revelation 12:17 --Revelation 13].
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iamlamad
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You just ASSUMED that this verse about His coming here, in Rev. 16 is the rapture coming. I don't assume that. What? Do you imagine He cannot come TWICE as a thief.
IN CONTEXT this is His coming for the battle of Armageddon. And NO ONE will know when He comes exactly. It will be an unknown day just as His pretrib coming will be. Nice try, but you are mistaken! By the way, the gathering of the kings is NOT HIS COMING, This is in chapter 16, and He does not come until AFTER the 70th week has finished as shown in chapter 19. the events of chapters 17 and 18 will take place after the 70th week has finished and before His coming. (The 70th week ends with the 7th vial.)
I prefer to take ALL the end times scriptures and rightly divide them. Sorry, but PAUL'S rapture gathering will come after the 5th seal and before the 6th. The 6th seal begins God's wrath. The 5th seal is the martyrs of the church age, who are told they must WAIT for judgment until the final number of martyrs - or until the very last martyr of the church age will have come in.
What will make a certain martyr the FINAL martyr? Of course the end of the church age - which will END with the rapture of the church. The moment after the dead in Christ rise, two groups of people get two different results: those living in darkness get "sudden destruction" - an earthquake caused by the very act of the dead rising. They cannot escape for it will be a worldwide earthquake. And there will be only ONE escape, and that will be to get caught up.
The other group will be those living in the light of the gospel. They will get "salvation" - get raptured and so MISS the sudden destruction. By the way, that great sudden destruction earthquake will be the great earthquake at the 6th seal.
It is no mistake then, that John SAW the raptured church around the throne in heaven in the very next chapter of the book.
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That will be the Christians who will have the misfortune to be alive during the 42 months reign of the Beast [Revelation 13]...who will refuse to take the mark and refuse to worship the Beast and his image.
John never saw a group being taken to Heaven before or during the events of the 6 Th seal [Revelation 6]
-The crowd to large to number that john saw in Heaven are dead believers [sleep in Jesus]whose Souls are in Heaven ....certainly that many Christians will die during the 6 TH Seal Great Earthquake
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Show me just one verse in the entire NT where Jesus stated that he is coming back twice? I'll await your answer. He does come back as a thief but it is right before Armageddon per Rev 16:15-16. If you choose not to believe Jesus' own words, that's your choice.
Sorry but if you knew how to rightly divide the word you would at least possess some basic understanding of the Greek language. The rapture does not happen between the 5th and 6th seal as you falsely assert. If it did take place at place at that time then by the completion of the 6th seal all the saints should be raptured. Such is not the case because "in the very next chapter," in Rev 7:9, John describes a multitude in heaven. In v.13 John asks one of the elders who these people are. In v.14 the elder replies that they are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation. The Greek word translated as "come out" is "erchomenoi" which is a present tense participle thus better translated as "coming out."
And I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. v.14 (BLB)
This takes place AFTER the 6th seal has already been opened and this verse states that the saints are still coming out of the great tribulation so the rapture which is a completed event including all the saints cannot have happened before the 6th seal as you claim.
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