Never scripturally a pre antichrist rapture

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Oldmantook]

Look at how many crowns He will wear. Jesus Christ will return for the church -after the 7th trumpet sounds -which is before the 7th seal. He will wear one crown. He will come again for battle at the end of chapter 19 -with His saints from heaven - and He will wear many crowns.

------Rev. 16 is not the rapture of the church time. People there must keep their garment - as in don't die - to get blessed. This is shown also in Daniel 12 - as to the 1335 days - but Daniel stops resting at the 1290th day- and stands in his lot.

The others after the 1290 days - must wait - as in not die - and live - come to - the 1335th day -in order to be blessed. - not given eternal life then - but go on living

If Rev 16 is not the rapture of the church why do those who believe in the rapture state unequivocally that when Jesus returns as a thief, that is the rapture event? You cannot have it both ways. The rapture and His Second Coming are one and the same event.

 

[Douggg]

If Rev 16 is not the rapture of the church why do those who believe in the rapture state unequivocally that when Jesus returns as a thief, that is the rapture event? You cannot have it both ways. The rapture and His Second Coming are one and the same event.

You packaged your question with the wrong wording. Not "returns", but comes for them.

 

[Oldmantook]

The bottom line though is that pre-trib adherents in essence believe in two returns - one at the rapture and again at the second coming. The first is Jesus' coming, the second his return. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference though I see your point.

 

[Douggg]

The bottom line though is that pre-trib adherents in essence believe in two returns - one at the rapture and again at the second coming. The first is Jesus' coming, the second his return. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference though I see your point.

Not two returns. The one return is in Revelation 19. Separately, a coming to resurrect the dead in Christ up to that point, and at the same time to translate the living Christians, together from this world to heaven. Later to accompany Jesus when he returns to this earth to reign and rule. May be pre-trib (pre-70th week) or it many not be.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Oldmantook]

Not two returns. The one return is in Revelation 19. Separately, a coming to resurrect the dead in Christ up to that point, and at the same time to translate the living Christians, together from this world to heaven. Later to accompany Jesus when he returns to this earth to reign and rule. May be pre-trib (pre-70th week) or it many not be.

You may disagree but I think it is a matter of semantics. Agree with you that Rev 19 refers to the second coming. However I believe the second coming in Rev 19 is also the rapture event. No where in all of the NT does Jesus state that he will come/return twice. He mentions his return as a one-time event. Those who believe in the rapture have to reinterpret Jesus' words and distinguish between the rapture and the second coming turning them into two separate events which I don't think fits with the scriptures. I think you distinguish between Jesus coming for his saints (rapture) versus Jesus coming with his saints (second coming). That is certainly your prerogative but I see no such distinction. We meet Christ in the air (rapture) and return with him at the same time to execute his judgment upon his enemies upon the earth. It is like when you greet someone who comes to your house. You go outside to meet him and then you both return inside to your house. The saints meet Jesus in the air and return to earth - not go to heaven. You claim that "coming" refers to the rapture event correct? If so how do you explain Matt 24:27-28 "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." From these two verses we that Jesus' coming is directly linked with where "the vultures will gather." So the germane question is exactly where/when in the Revelation timeline do the vultures gather? If one can determine that, then one can determine when the rapture/coming occurs. If just so happens to occur in Rev 19 where you already admitted refers to the return of Jesus: "Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the one riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies" (Rev 19:21). Thus the rapture where Jesus comes and the vultures gather and Jesus' return where the vultures eat the flesh of Jesus's vanquished enemies is the exact same event. One event - not two.

 

[Oldmantook]

When is reward time? Revelation 11:18 -7th trumpet

When is the resurrection of the just?
7th trumpet sounds first

Luke 14:14 places reward time when the resurrection of the just happens.

2 Timothy 4:8 / "...laid up a crown of righteousness..give me...that day...His appearing."

2 John 1:8

“Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.”

Lk 14:14 refers to the resurrection of the just/righteous. The 7th trumpet refers to the resurrection of the righteous, but so does Rev 7:14 referring to those in white robes who have come out of the great tribulation after the 6th seal is opened. Rev 19:1-8 also describes the resurrected saints who participate in the wedding of the lamb at that time, after the bowls are opened. All of these scriptures describe the resurrection of the just - not only at the 7th trumpet, so your point is?

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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