Never Doing It Again

[SarahsKnight]

I understand he wants to improve his faith. But he seems to think that God is torturing him and hard. And he's taking this all as his fault. His trying to lift a boulder that he isn't even pinned under. He feels like his soul is being crushed and he's to blame. That's concerning.

As someone who has had similar issues in the past I'm trying my best to be empathetic.

I'm sorry. Obviously I misunderstood your intent. I just feel you could have worded that better than "you're scaring me".

 

[cedric1200]

I'm not mocking him or at least not intentionally.

I understand he wants to improve his faith. But he seems to think that God is torturing him and hard. And he's taking this all as his fault. His trying to lift a boulder that he isn't even pinned under. He feels like his soul is being crushed and he's to blame. That's concerning.

As someone who has had similar issues in the past I'm trying my best to be empathetic. My best advice is literally blank your mind. Create a happy place filled with the positive things you love about yourself. You can recite these negative mantra like descriptions of yourself and convince yourself you're somehow a vile piece of scum. Then guess what you can certainly do the opposite.

You sound like a bright kid and I'm guessing you do art. If not, then adopt a form of expression. Start writing, drawing, sing to yourself. Stop keeping these feelings inside of you. They're dying to be expressed in some way. You'd be surprised how beautiful pain can be.

Look at something I've drawn (I'm not the best, but serviceable lol)

Get someone to talk to, not a forum of people on the interwebs (because you're gonna run into me x1000) and we're gone when you log off. I mean a real person you trust.

I'm telling you this because you sound 100% like me about a 8 years ago. I caged up everything and thought I was wretched and deserved hell, disgusted with myself for no real reason. It drove me crazy. I don't like hearing about people feeling that way. So I give them the same advice I gave myself. It worked.

Be the hero you need. And before I get accused of it, I'm not trying to lead you away from God. I'm trying to lead you to that intrinsic happiness; the love for ourselves we all seek.

I can do that.

I really appreciate your empathy.

 

[cedric1200]

Cedric, this is what you're really saying: "God created me as a homosexual who would inevitably experience lust, but He loves me so much, He's going to forgive me for the very design he gave me in the first place if I make the right propitiations." You're calling Him merciful because He might forgive you for something that's His fault! Well, you should expect Him to!

No, I am not saying God created me a homosexual. Sin cause these desires within me. God created me to have a relationship with him and to give him glory, which I haven't been doing. And for some for reason, I have a hard time having a relationship with him.

 

[pakicetus]

No, I am not saying God created me a homosexual. Sin cause these desires within me.

Dude no. It has to do with brain chemistry. Does sin also cause homosexuality in animals?

God created me to have a relationship with him and to give him glory, which I haven't been doing. And for some for reason, I have a hard time having a relationship with him.

I don't really know what to tell you about that. Except that God probably isn't waiting for you to have a coffee enema. Do you think he's giving you the cold shoulder because you're gay? 'Cause that seems pretty antithetical to a lot of the Bible (especially where Jesus would even hang out with prostitutes and criminals).

 

[cedric1200]

Dude no. It has to do with brain chemistry. Does sin also cause homosexuality in animals?



I don't really know what to tell you about that. Except that God probably isn't waiting for you to have a coffee enema. Do you think he's giving you the cold shoulder because you're gay? 'Cause that seems pretty antithetical to a lot of the Bible (especially where Jesus would even hang out with prostitutes and criminals).

I don't quite understand the science of it all. And I have in the past in the past questioned whether it's a sin or not.

I have heard arguments of people saying it wasn't added in the Bible until the 1800's or something. But I still can't be in that kind of relationship.

I believe the Bible, simply because of the little experience I have had, the testimonies of trusted witnesses, and what history tells me. It lines up more with reality.

But I do know that the Bible has been translated in different languages. But I have heard people look up homosexuality in its original translation and it does say it's sin. So I have to go with that.

Now, I am not preaching against people. I have no right. I have been preaching against homosexuality, and yet I was looking at gay porn and unclean videos on youtube with gay activity. I still fail in that department. But I am trying to walk away from that. So that is why I was saying I am hypocrite. I have no problem admitting my sin. We all sin. So why hide it. But I am going to try very hard to walk away from it.

 

[cedric1200]

As for God giving me the cold shoulder. He isn't. It's my sin that causes me to not have a good relationship with God. Paul writes in scripture that those who live according to the flesh can never please God. I have become God's enemy when I lust and participate in something he clearly forbids. And that is scary.

Yes, Jesus hung out with prostitutes. But he hung out with them so they can turn from their sin and turn to God. Not so they can continue in their sin.

As long as I continue in my sin, I will not be able to have that relationship.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As for God giving me the cold shoulder. He isn't. It's my sin that causes me to not have a good relationship with God. Paul writes in scripture that those who live according to the flesh can never please God. I have become God's enemy when I lust and participate in something he clearly forbids. And that is scary.

Yes, Jesus hung out with prostitutes. But he hung out with them so they can turn from their sin and turn to God. Not so they can continue in their sin.

As long as I continue in my sin, I will not be able to have that relationship.

Hey Cedric,

I read your last thread before this one, and this one, and it looks like you're really struggling. It's a shame this struggle brings you such misery.

I think you're right to accept that disbelief isn't for you. It wouldn't be genuine... it would be to satisfy your desires and you would still feel self-loathing for them. It wouldn't be any kind of satisfaction at all. If I'm not mistaken, you've said you live somewhere that's relatively small... so seeking a different church isn't exactly an option either. It sounds like a pretty difficult spot to be in, but I think you're on the right track. I think you understand that the change has to come from within yourself.

The one thing from your OP that stood out to me was this...

" IT'S HEALTHY AND GOOD TO FEAR GOD'S WRATH."

Is it? Is it healthy and good to be stressed out? To be miserable and depressed? It seems this notion of god's wrath is something you've let yourself become preoccupied with. Perhaps, that's what needs to change...

I knew a guy once who was a vehement communist. Being something of a scholar of politics, I enjoyed telling him how his views would never work in practice. That they were against humanity. Denied by human nature itself. He related to me the story of Sisyphus (I'm probably spelling that wrong). He's a character in Greek mythology who was condemned to hell. His punishment was to roll a boulder up a hill...but as he began to reach the summit, he would always lose control of the boulder and it would roll back down to the bottom. He was continually starting over...the same struggle time after time.

The guy claimed that such a struggle, even one he could never succeed in, was a joy. It was an ideal...one that could not be achieved...but achieving it wasn't as important as the struggle. It was the struggle that mattered...that he was willing to undertake it.

Don't you think your god knows how you struggle? From what I understand of sin, no man...christian or not...will ever be without it. Isn't it the struggle then, that matters to your god? I don't think he ever expects you to be without lust. I think he would recognize you've struggled to stay true to his word. I would think he would be pleased with you, and your struggles, and I don't think you should live in fear of his wrath.

 

[cedric1200]

Hey Cedric,

I read your last thread before this one, and this one, and it looks like you're really struggling. It's a shame this struggle brings you such misery.

I think you're right to accept that disbelief isn't for you. It wouldn't be genuine... it would be to satisfy your desires and you would still feel self-loathing for them. It wouldn't be any kind of satisfaction at all. If I'm not mistaken, you've said you live somewhere that's relatively small... so seeking a different church isn't exactly an option either. It sounds like a pretty difficult spot to be in, but I think you're on the right track. I think you understand that the change has to come from within yourself.

The one thing from your OP that stood out to me was this...

" IT'S HEALTHY AND GOOD TO FEAR GOD'S WRATH."

Is it? Is it healthy and good to be stressed out? To be miserable and depressed? It seems this notion of god's wrath is something you've let yourself become preoccupied with. Perhaps, that's what needs to change...

I knew a guy once who was a vehement communist. Being something of a scholar of politics, I enjoyed telling him how his views would never work in practice. That they were against humanity. Denied by human nature itself. He related to me the story of Sisyphus (I'm probably spelling that wrong). He's a character in Greek mythology who was condemned to hell. His punishment was to roll a boulder up a hill...but as he began to reach the summit, he would always lose control of the boulder and it would roll back down to the bottom. He was continually starting over...the same struggle time after time.

The guy claimed that such a struggle, even one he could never succeed in, was a joy. It was an ideal...one that could not be achieved...but achieving it wasn't as important as the struggle. It was the struggle that mattered...that he was willing to undertake it.

Don't you think your god knows how you struggle? From what I understand of sin, no man...christian or not...will ever be without it. Isn't it the struggle then, that matters to your god? I don't think he ever expects you to be without lust. I think he would recognize you've struggled to stay true to his word. I would think he would be pleased with you, and your struggles, and I don't think you should live in fear of his wrath.

Thank you, Ana.

No, I don't think it is healthy to live this way. I need to change my mind set. Thank you for that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thank you, Ana.

No, I don't think it is healthy to live this way. I need to change my mind set. Thank you for that.

You're welcome. I hope you find peace with yourself Cedric.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Thank you, Ana.

No, I don't think it is healthy to live this way. I need to change my mind set. Thank you for that.

I think he spoke wisely there, Cedric. I'm glad you are open to his suggestions. I encourage you to continue to fight what you know and/or believe to be sin. True, it is not good at all to be looking at porn, gay or straight-oriented. Believe me, I know, and so do likely 95 to 99% of all other men. And other things you've mentioned are not good, either. BUT, it is not fear of hell (no matter which form it takes, of eternal torment, annihilation, or the "woodshed" where God takes a belt to you but for corrective purposes in the universal reconciliation theology) that should drive you, especially not the tormenting kind of fear of God Himself. The Bible does say to fear Him in a few verses, yes, but it says far more often to love Him, thus it is totally rational to conclude that this kind of fear is a reverential kind, and perhaps the kind of fear any child might have of disappointing a parent with morally askew actions. But not the kind you seem to be struggling with, where you indicated in one of your first posts in this thread only caused you to feel you are frustrated with God and even blame Him for your circumstances (more of a loathing fear). No, that kind of "loathing" fear I think is quite obvious God does not desire from you.

So, perhaps try to continue your fight against sin but while trusting in God's help and constant forgiveness and looking to Him for strength, the One who will shield you, instead of the one who will torture you if you don't get it all the way right .... because you can't get it all the way right. Otherwise the cross would not be needed. But you may not get the freedom from sin and struggle and doubt that you want right now, as in our hearts all of us believers want, not today, not tomorrow, and God only knows the time when He will make everything right. But it starts at the cross. A lack of trust in God's goodness and method of redemption is I dare say the greatest form of disobedience that displeases Him - not breaking one of the ten commandments. (Although I certainly do not encourage breaking a commandment in saying this.) You just let the Holy Spirit work in you, and be patient. I for one had to be patient for about 18 months before the Holy Spirit seemed to answer my pleas to work in me, and the first 8 months of that year and a half was a horrific time of confusion, loneliness, and most of all anxious fear that God hated me and wanted to send me to an eternity of torment, that I had done or said something to make Him hate me that much. .... and yet it all worked out in the end. And I know the Holy Spirit has much more work to do with me. By far and wide it didn't just stop at helping me to realize how suspicious and downright bogus some mainstream teachings in Christianity may very well be. Christ and Him crucified, however, I believe will always be true; the central message and focus that will never be bogus to me.

Easier said than done, but again, try to be patient. And keep seeking counsel in the meantime from good friends and loved ones who sincerely want to help you. Keep praying, but pray with a heart of gladness, thanks, and reverential fear. Revere God for being Almighty AND infinitely good to us mortal humans who are so far below Him at the same time. He could be like the any of the all-powerful gods in so much fiction who seem to treat their own creations very poorly, as though humans just exist to be the playthings of their insatiable sadistic tendencies .... but our God, the one true God of the Bible, I think clearly isn't like that. The Bible says He is love, (not hate) although He does get angry sometimes and does hate some things. And elsewhere the Bible says mercy rejoiceth (triumphs?) over judgment. Take heart in this. Do just not use it as a license to sin, of course - which I personally doubt near as many people actually do as the more legalistic preachers seem to believe they do in order to shoot down hopeful-sounding theologies like once-saved-always-saved, etc. - but more importantly, don't use fearful theologies like eternal torment as a license to sin by not trusting in the Lord. Don't trust your feelings, even if they may make you feel condemned and hopeless. Trust HIM.

 

[cedric1200]

I think he spoke wisely there, Cedric. I'm glad you are open to his suggestions. I encourage you to continue to fight what you know and/or believe to be sin. True, it is not good at all to be looking at porn, gay or straight-oriented. Believe me, I know, and so do likely 95 to 99% of all other men. And other things you've mentioned are not good, either. BUT, it is not fear of hell (no matter which form it takes, of eternal torment, annihilation, or the "woodshed" where God takes a belt to you but for corrective purposes in the universal reconciliation theology) that should drive you, especially not the tormenting kind of fear of God Himself. The Bible does say to fear Him in a few verses, yes, but it says far more often to love Him, thus it is totally rational to conclude that this kind of fear is a reverential kind, and perhaps the kind of fear any child might have of disappointing a parent with morally askew actions. But not the kind you seem to be struggling with, where you indicated in one of your first posts in this thread only caused you to feel you are frustrated with God and even blame Him for your circumstances (more of a loathing fear). No, that kind of "loathing" fear I think is quite obvious God does not desire from you.

So, perhaps try to continue your fight against sin but while trusting in God's help and constant forgiveness and looking to Him for strength, the One who will shield you, instead of the one who will torture you if you don't get it all the way right .... because you can't get it all the way right. Otherwise the cross would not be needed. But you may not get the freedom from sin and struggle and doubt that you want right now, as in our hearts all of us believers want, not today, not tomorrow, and God only knows the time when He will make everything right. But it starts at the cross. A lack of trust in God's goodness and method of redemption is I dare say the greatest form of disobedience that displeases Him - not breaking one of the ten commandments. (Although I certainly do not encourage breaking a commandment in saying this.) You just let the Holy Spirit work in you, and be patient. I for one had to be patient for about 18 months before the Holy Spirit seemed to answer my pleas to work in me, and the first 8 months of that year and a half was a horrific time of confusion, loneliness, and most of all anxious fear that God hated me and wanted to send me to an eternity of torment, that I had done or said something to make Him hate me that much. .... and yet it all worked out in the end. And I know the Holy Spirit has much more work to do with me. By far and wide it didn't just stop at helping me to realize how suspicious and downright bogus some mainstream teachings in Christianity may very well be. Christ and Him crucified, however, I believe will always be true; the central message and focus that will never be bogus to me.

Easier said than done, but again, try to be patient. And keep seeking counsel in the meantime from good friends and loved ones who sincerely want to help you. Keep praying, but pray with a heart of gladness, thanks, and reverential fear. Revere God for being Almighty AND infinitely good to us mortal humans who are so far below Him at the same time. He could be like the any of the all-powerful gods in so much fiction who seem to treat their own creations very poorly, as though humans just exist to be the playthings of their insatiable sadistic tendencies .... but our God, the one true God of the Bible, I think clearly isn't like that. The Bible says He is love, (not hate) although He does get angry sometimes and does hate some things. And elsewhere the Bible says mercy rejoiceth (triumphs?) over judgment. Take heart in this. Do just not use it as a license to sin, of course - which I personally doubt near as many people actually do as the more legalistic preachers seem to believe they do in order to shoot down hopeful-sounding theologies like once-saved-always-saved, etc. - but more importantly, don't use fearful theologies like eternal torment as a license to sin by not trusting in the Lord. Don't trust your feelings, even if they may make you feel condemned and hopeless. Trust HIM.

Thank you.

I can do that.

 

[cedric1200]

You're welcome. I hope you find peace with yourself Cedric.

Thank you.

 

[commonsence]

no lust will mean no attraction witch will mean no love, no sex, lust is a form of attraction, the first form of attraction. is biological and nothing wrong with it as long as you can control it.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex or masturbation or having sex.

Your problem is that you're doing something like refusing to eat food and then getting upset over how hungry you always are and when you do eat food you vilify yourself for it and try again so you stay in a revolving circle of misery and self hate.

There is no such thing as sin, no such thing as god, no such thing as being wrong for wanting mutually appreciated sex, no such thing as masturbation being wrong and morality itself is a human creation that serves to protect us and meet our needs.

You're doing it all to yourself. This thing you can't stop doing is a NEED in your life. So do it. When your body or biology overpowers your theology and philosophy there's probably something wrong and something you aren't considering.

 

[cedric1200]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex or masturbation or having sex.

Your problem is that you're doing something like refusing to eat food and then getting upset over how hungry you always are and when you do eat food you vilify yourself for it and try again so you stay in a revolving circle of misery and self hate.

There is no such thing as sin, no such thing as god, no such thing as being wrong for wanting mutually appreciated sex, no such thing as masturbation being wrong and morality itself is a human creation that serves to protect us and meet our needs.

You're doing it all to yourself. This thing you can't stop doing is a NEED in your life. So do it. When your body or biology overpowers your theology and philosophy there's probably something wrong and something you aren't considering.

That's different.

 

[cedric1200]

no lust will mean no attraction witch will mean no love, no sex, lust is a form of attraction, the first form of attraction. is biological and nothing wrong with it as long as you can control it.

I have always thought lust meant... actually I don't even know what lust mean. I thought it meant desire.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

That's different.

Not really.

Let's have an experiment and see. From today forward try not to sexually desire, you come back and tell me how long you make it without desiring and doing something to fulfill it. Based on how long you can go without it we will judge whether or not it's a need in your life.

You're a 35 year old man who cannot succeed at this endeavor, so let's make a very safe assessment and say it's a need in your life. While you may not die without it it's similar to emotional needs, while emotional abuse may not kill you, it's still very destructive and it still prohibits legitimate needs in your life and that's why it's so destructive.

When your children weep because of how you speak to them, even though your words may not kill them, that weeping is caused by real needs going unmet. Sexual fulfillment is a legitimate need, especially for men. There is no reason to not meet it.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

I have always thought lust meant... actually I don't even know what lust mean. I thought it meant desire.

Christians explain lust to be the extent of their desire that they can actually avoid, wanting or imagining or desiring sex isn't bad (because it's unavoidable) but acting it out or pondering long on it is bad (because it's avoidable).

They're just shaping their theology around their abilities.

 

[cedric1200]

Christians explain lust to be the extent of their desire that they can actually avoid, wanting or imagining or desiring sex isn't bad (because it's unavoidable) but acting it out or pondering long on it is bad (because it's avoidable).

They're just shaping their theology around their abilities.

Wow.

I don't know respond to that. Sorry. I just saw your replies. But I do have to process everything you said. I'll have to get back to you.