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Nephilim

twin1954

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I asked because you are taking a very literalistic view of the passage. David seems to call that covenant all his salvation:


(2Sa 23:1) Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,


(2Sa 23:2) The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.


(2Sa 23:3) The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.


(2Sa 23:4) And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.


(2Sa 23:5) Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.
 
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Pedrito

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In Post #43 – now faith stated:
Cain was first born Able was second,when Cain slew Able and God sent him out he feared he would be killed for slaying Able God put a mark on him with a curse for anyone who would harm him.
Who was there to harm him?
There were no sisters born at the time Cain was cast out,Ables replacement was Seth.
Then Adam had daughters and sons.
The event timeline does not support Cain waiting for sisters to be born.
He went to nod and knew his wife and had Enoch.

Don't worry bro this makes me crazy!

Who said there were no sisters born at the time? The Hebrew narrative style often deals with important people and or events, or gives an overview, first, then provides related detail thereafter.

(If the following ideas repeat thoughts already expressed in this long thread, please forgive me.)

The common teaching is that the male descendants of Seth after a time noticed the desirability of the daughters of Cain's line. (The proponents of this proposal, of necessity ignore the fact that Adam had multiple sons and daughters, and that their descendants were walking around at the time as well.)

Up until that time, the descendants of Seth are said to have lived in isolation (the proponents of that thought often say they inhabited the high country while the “children of men” [Cain's descendants] lived on the plains [just like the Scripture says – not!]). I wonder where the descendants of Adam's other sons and daughters were living at this time?

The isolation would have involved Seth marrying his sister (necessary), Seth's sons marrying their sisters, their sons marrying their sisters or cousins, and so on for a number of generations. Then suddenly, lo and behold, Seth's male descendants realise that the ladies in Cain's ungodly line have their charms, and break ranks. (Don't forget, the daughters of Adam's other sons are conspicuously ignored in this perspective.)

An interesting theory.

However, I find nowhere in Scripture any statement that Seth's descendants were in any way a Godly line. In fact, all but one man and his family were wiped out in the flood.

Nor do I find anywhere in Scripture that says that the line of Cain was in any way evil or cursed.

In fact, Jude 1:6 apparently defines who the “sons of God” were in Genesis 6:2.

God chose Noah because he met three qualifications:
He was a just man;
He was perfect in his generations [plural];
He walked with God.

Remember, our Saviour had to have purely human DNA, otherwise he could not have been Mankind's Saviour.

These days we are bombarded with news about the wonders of genetic modification, and to a lesser extent leaked news about its dangers. You may or may not be aware that cats have been bred that glow in the dark, because of introduced foreign DNA. In all other respects they seem to be normal cats - they look like cats, they move like cats, they meow like cats. However, they would be barred from normal cat shows because they carry cat-alien DNA.

Could Jude 1:6 be opening a window for us into a cunning attempt by Satan to sabotage God's plan, by generally tainting the descendants of the woman, so there would be no-one qualified to bruise his head?


Also, another thing I've often wondered about:

When does the Bible say that Adam and Eve would have gone to Heaven had they not sinned?

And where does it say it?
 
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mikedsjr

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I saw this statistic on genealogies and world population on twitter a while ago. The family tree at around 1200AD becomes too large to support the population of the world, using the genealogy tree chart we commonly see. It practically is impossible not to have royalty and the lowest of the lowly somewhere in your tree if you work it right. At a certain point, cousins have to start marry cousins, if not brother and sister. It is still not uncommon in some part of the world for this to continue, otherwise some people groups would just die out.

Cain did marry his sister, or maybe one of his other siblings married and had a daughter and he married this lady. What we do know is it is written that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters and there is no way of knowing what the real order was or when the daughters were born. Cain could have been 13 or 300 years old when his sin occurred. We don't know. What we do know is Cain married and this woman was from the lineage of Adam and Eve.

What does amaze me is how people believe Cain's mark upon him was a condemnation. It wasn't. It was to protect him from being murdered himself.
 
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Avid

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We have a hint that Cain was around for about 128 years when he killed his brother, Abel. It is not like having it penned in the Holy Bible, but my copy of the Bible includes approximate year of the time of scripture on that page. Someone studied that out, and made an estimate.
 
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mikedsjr

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I guess 128 is speculated because of the age of Adam when Seth was born. So it could have been 13 to 120something. It would be difficult to assume Cain was 128 years old, but certainly could imagine Adam was probably no more than 128.

I'm personally not sure what the ages mean, given what I have learned.
 
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Avid

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The dates at the tops of the page in the Scofield Bible indicate the Fall at 4004 BC, the birth of Cain at 4003 BC, and the murder of Abel at 3875 BC. I agree that is very general, and approximate. I would not rest too much on that, but it is what it is. The birth of Seth is either much earlier, or still may be 3875 BC. However, it is described on a page where the date is again 4004 BC, so I am at a loss to say. I think it does say that the murder of Abel and the birth of Seth were not too far apart, and near 3875 BC

These speculations do not help, but so much, so your estimation that Cain was as much as 120 then does not bother me at all.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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So much changed after the Great Flood. In Gen.6, God said He would limit man's days to 120 years. Before the flood, that would have been nearer 1,000 years.

I'm personally not sure what the ages mean, given what I have learned.

From a biological perspective, there are essentially two ways by which we age. In one way, death comes about slowly as the accumulation of environmental effects. In a second way, aging is a pre-programmed function of gene regulation: genes are deactivated, but not removed, one by one, until we cannot survive. The first is the result of the effect of entropy, or the tendency toward disorder, and it is believed for reasons having nothing to do with religious debate that this factor alone would have us living in the general range of about a thousand year lifespan. I'm not making this up. It is the second factor, which is the product of design, the deliberate function placed there by our own designer, that limits our lives to an absolute maximum of about 120 years.

The verse that Avid cites has been taken to mean one of two things: either God predicted that the flood would come in 120 years, or God decided to limit the lifespan of humans to 120 years, or both. Either way, the 120 year limit is something deliberately engineered into us. It would not be a difficult stretch of the imagination to think that God might have added it midway through the antediluvian period to reduce our thousand-year lives to hundred-year lives. Without the gene regulation factor playing a part, we could easily live as long as people are said to have lived in that time period.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Nephilim came about at a time of genetic drift and degeneration from mutations, giantism was one of those things, which evidence it.

If they appeared at around the seventh generation from God's creation, then was there really enough time for genetic drift, especially to that degree? If there were prevalent mutations, then the recessives should have been hidden as heterozygous alleles. Even inbreeding takes at least two generations from the original mutant to be made manifest, and even then it requires the mutation to be present in the germ line, which represents a terribly small fraction of the body's cells. To go from perfect to freak in only seven generations, especially back then, seems incredibly unlikely.
 
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FredVB

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If they appeared at around the seventh generation from God's creation, then was there really enough time for genetic drift, especially to that degree?

I do think so. Racial characteristics can develop in a separate small community in a couple of centuries and much faster than had been thought. Remember that these generations of that time were lasting over the course of more than a century and surely with more children produced to the parents over that greater length of time, and surely more mutations were possible. This would have been occurring after a millennium from the fall after the creation of humanity. This explanation makes much more sense than expecting that such humans developed from spirit beings that manifested to physically breed with human women producing children from that. Nephilim were around at that time of these sons of God going to the daughters of men, not with actual explanation in the text that they produced the nephilim themselves, which is thought that it must be so with a position that the sons of God would not be human with that explaining nephilim. And such giant people appeared after the global flood as well.
 
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Merlin

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From a biological perspective, there are essentially two ways by which we age. In one way, death comes about slowly as the accumulation of environmental effects. In a second way, aging is a pre-programmed function of gene regulation: genes are deactivated, but not removed, one by one, until we cannot survive. The first is the result of the effect of entropy, or the tendency toward disorder, and it is believed for reasons having nothing to do with religious debate that this factor alone would have us living in the general range of about a thousand year lifespan. I'm not making this up. It is the second factor, which is the product of design, the deliberate function placed there by our own designer, that limits our lives to an absolute maximum of about 120 years.

The verse that Avid cites has been taken to mean one of two things: either God predicted that the flood would come in 120 years, or God decided to limit the lifespan of humans to 120 years, or both. Either way, the 120 year limit is something deliberately engineered into us. It would not be a difficult stretch of the imagination to think that God might have added it midway through the antediluvian period to reduce our thousand-year lives to hundred-year lives. Without the gene regulation factor playing a part, we could easily live as long as people are said to have lived in that time period.
Your understanding is in error
The cause of aging is not genetic.

=====

Your understanding of age limitations being 120 years is also in error
If u can find any example, either biblically or otherwise then either
1. the bible is wrong.
2. your understanding of the bible is wrong.
I vote for #2
 
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Bluelion

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Your understanding is in error
The cause of aging is not genetic.

=====

Your understanding of age limitations being 120 years is also in error
If u can find any example, either biblically or otherwise then either
1. the bible is wrong.
2. your understanding of the bible is wrong.
I vote for #2

First no he is not wrong God limit the age of man to 120 years max, he said how long will I put up with man from now on their age will be 120 years. I think number 2 is for you in all love.
 
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Bluelion

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I disagree with your belief about the Nephilim being of angels.
The bible says they are of ben-elohim.
ben meaning "descendant of", and elohim meaning " great one"
There is a totally different word meaning " angel"

Yeah no the literal translations is sons of God, which Angels have been referred to as sons of God.
 
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Swan7

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Angels, as well as man, have free will:
Genesis 6:1-4
Numbers 13:33

The sons of God actually came to the earth and took wives and that is how the Nephilim/Giants became.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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I went through this whole thread quickly: - It's rather messy and bits of information scattered throughout.

Can someone give me a brief organized list for both arguments with bible verses?

Godly Line Interbreeding with Immoral line

and

Fallen Angels interbreeding with Humans
 
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Merlin

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First no he is not wrong God limit the age of man to 120 years max, he said how long will I put up with man from now on their age will be 120 years. I think number 2 is for you in all love.
First off, the translation used in the bible says :
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
And then later the bible says :
Gen 11:13 After he begot Salah, Arphaxad lived four hundred and three years, and begot sons and daughters.
Now, either the bible is contradicting itself, the translation is contradicting itself or our understanding is in error.
It is my contention that the bible is never wrong.
It is either our understanding or the understanding of the man who translated it that is wrong.
Here, the bible seems to be contradicting itself if it is indeed saying that the lifespan of humans shall be 120 years.
If you read Genesis chapter 11 you will find other examples of people living passed 120 years after the flood.
 
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