Nephilim and the General Resurrection

Fireinfolding

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How would Adam (whom God formed from the ground) and Eve (who was made from his side) be considered Nephilim?

Only since after men began to multiply long after them and then points out

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in **those days**;
and also after that,
**when** the sons of God came in unto the **daughters of** men,
and **they bare children** to them,
**the same became** mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I'm in over my head arent I? ^_^
 
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BobRyan

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I am still working on defining Sons of God which I believe is the key.
In the case of those on Earth - Rom 8:14 is key

But if you look beyond Earth - to texts like Job 1 and Job 2 - they could most certainly include sinless beings from some place else - possibly holy angels.

However in Gen 6 it is clear that Nepehilim do not originate after the sons of God (Seth's people) marry with the daughters of men (Cain's people), but rather before that.

And if you look at Matt 22 - Jesus said that by design (of their creation) angels as beings, as a species - do not even form family units with each other - much less having the attributes that would allow them to form cross-species family units.
 
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BobRyan

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How would Adam (whom God formed from the ground) and Eve (who was made from his side) be considered Nephilim?
Because the same word is translated "giants" in the OT by many translations when speaking of events after the flood. They are large as compared "to us". Notice that when Israel first goes into Canaan they immediately complain about "giants". But when Abraham goes there - not one single complaint from him about there being giants in Canaan.
Only since after men began to multiply long after them and then points out

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in **those days**;
and also after that,
**when**
the sons of God came in unto the **daughters of** men,
and **they bare children** to them,
**the same became** mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Indeed because "In those days" refers to "The days before the flood"

The text simply points out that the Nephilim that were already there - in those days before the flood -- continued to be there even after the mixed marriages of Gen 6.

So Adam and Eve qualify as living "in those days" that is those days "before the flood"
 
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benadamm

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Are the Nephilim human or sub-human? Will they rise again on the last day?
They are humans.

: And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

here is described everything required to be Nephilim. Lamech being the first.

The beginning of a worldwide culture that battles are fought for the right to breed and breeding as a symbol of status.
Genetics would naturally favor the biggest and strongest males
 
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BobRyan

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Jude 6–8 also has to be considered.
6 And the angels who did not keep their 3proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Rev 12 says that "there was war in heaven" and that the holy angels that turned to rebellion were cast out of heaven. Those fallen angels came to Earth and in Gen 3 - Satan tempts mankind to sin. He was already fallen, already expelled from heaven before he tempted Eve to sin in Gen 3. Then Rev 12 indicates that these fallen angels were banished to Earth after Christ was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

So it makes sense that Jude 6 declares them to be held in this place - under judgment, pending their doom in Rev 20.

THEN Jude gives us us two examples of "undergoing the punishment of eternal fire"
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality

All sin is immoral - both the fallen angels and sinful humans engage in immoral actions. Moral actions are those in harmony with God's Law.

Moral: distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior:

the Fallen Angels are not an example of this -- "going after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." only the two cities provide that "example"
 
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BobRyan

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They are humans.

: And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

here is described everything required to be Nephilim. Lamech being the first.
What makes Lamech "Nephilim" in that verse?

Cain rose up and killed Able. If all it takes the act of murdering another human - that would make Cain Nephilim in your model.
 
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benadamm

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In the case of those on Earth - Rom 8:14 is key

But if you look beyond Earth - to texts like Job 1 and Job 2 - they could most certainly include sinless beings from some place else - possibly holy angels.

However in Gen 6 it is clear that Nepehilim do not originate after the sons of God (Seth's people) marry with the daughters of men (Cain's people), but rather before that.

And if you look at Matt 22 - Jesus said that by design (of their creation) angels as beings, as a species - do not even form family units with each other - much less having the attributes that would allow them to form cross-species family units.
Maybe consider Lamech of Cain's line as the first Nephilim. The dawn of a worldwide culture of warrior males who fight and kill for the right to breed and breeding success is status. Also, genetics would naturally favor the biggest and strongest males.
 
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benadamm

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What makes Lamech "Nephilim" in that verse?

Cain rose up and killed Able. If all it takes the act of murdering another human - that would make Cain Nephilim in your model.
Cain wasn't killing a breeding rival but a religious rival
 
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BobRyan

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Cain wasn't killing a breeding rival but a religious rival
Where is the "breeding rival" in anything that exists in Gen 6?? Even Lamech does not say "I killed a man because of concerns about breeding"
 
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BobRyan

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Maybe consider Lamech of Cain's line as the first Nephilim. The dawn of a worldwide culture of warrior males who fight and kill for the right to breed
I don't see anything in the entire book of Genesis that says Nephilim are a "culture of warrior males who fight and kill for the right to breed"

Then Lamech said to his wives: “Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech! For I have killed a man for wounding me, Even a young man for hurting me.

Does not say - "I killed him for the right to breed".
There are many examples in the Bible of someone with multiple wives who did not have to kill someone for the right to breed.
 
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benadamm

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I don't see anything in the entire book of Genesis that says Nephilim are a "culture of warrior males who fight and kill for the right to breed"

Then Lamech said to his wives: “Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech! For I have killed a man for wounding me, Even a young man for hurting me.

Does not say - "I killed him for the right to breed".
There are many examples in the Bible of someone with multiple wives who did not have to kill someone for the right to breed.
Lamech is the first polygamist. If some men have many some have none. Polygamy creates highly competitive males. Also a culture centered on successful spreading of genes. For males it's to impregnae as many women as possible. For females it's to unite with the most powerful male and ay with him.
It just all fits.
 
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benadamm

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Where is the "breeding rival" in anything that exists in Gen 6?? Even Lamech does not say "I killed a man because of concerns about breeding"
The Nephilim emerge as great from a polygamous culture.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
 
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benadamm

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I don't see anything in the entire book of Genesis that says Nephilim are a "culture of warrior males who fight and kill for the right to breed"

Then Lamech said to his wives: “Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech! For I have killed a man for wounding me, Even a young man for hurting me.

Does not say - "I killed him for the right to breed"
There are many examples in the Bible of someone with multiple wives who did not have to kill someone for the right to breed.
Bob, thanks for considering the possibility.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Because the same word is translated "giants" in the OT by many translations when speaking of events after the flood.
I do agree with you I had posted verses earlier showing as much

They are large as compared "to us".
Again I agree it states so much

Notice that when Israel first goes into Canaan they immediately complain about "giants". But when Abraham goes there - not one single complaint from him about there being giants in Canaan.
Yeah, there was only three children of Anak there, Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai (Numbers 13:22) and their complaints about the giants being there was considered an evil report (Numbers 13:32) Then read the following chapter it pretty much centered around their grumbling about them and the LORD saying, "I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them" ^_^ Why compare them with Abraham not complaining about them? I get what you are saying, but a lack of complaining about them is hardly evidence against Abraham.

Indeed because "In those days" refers to "The days before the flood"

Yes, I posted that, but follow all those years from Adam to the last named Lamech the father of Noah who was born and later as a man built an ark and it was during those days (agreed) before the flood which is how many hundred of years after Adam lived?

Briefly, the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years but lived nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Then follow all the begats, after doing that theres no way it was in the days of Adam the years are too many between

Correct me if I am wrong since math isnt my thing
The text simply points out that the Nephilim that were already there - in those days before the flood --

I agree I posted so much, the days of Noah before the flood they are present
continued to be there even after the mixed marriages of Gen 6.

So Adam and Eve qualify as living "in those days" that is those days "before the flood"

But how can it if in Genesis 6:1 after all the days are declared of who begat who begat who begat who and all the many years between them, all the way down to Noah it says,

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

And ofcourse Adam's line through Seth is the lineage of Christ as a son of God even as Adam is called the Son of God (Luke 3:38)

And so if we were looking at it as the above (Sons of God line) taking some of the daughters of men (Cain's offspring) as might be pictured here

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

That was long past the time of Adam because where daughters are named as being born in/through Adam/Seth's line there are no daughters I can find named in the Adam's/Cain line. Also, since it says "and it came to pass WHEN men began to multiple and daughters (of which the sons of God would take of) were born of these men. Wouldnt it have to be speaking of Cain's offspring in this situation if the one (the sons of God line) is taking from the other (so to speak)?

Seth's line at least states between daughters and sons being born through that line but Cain's is only stating sons (unless theres some feminine name in there I am missing). I don't know why it does that, but he would have to have them through his sons at some point for the sons of God to actually take of them (And thats if we are looking at it as it being between these two lines, rather than angels descending and hooking up) well, you know what I mean ^_^

They have to be the daughters of men right which have to differ from the sons of God. And where I see so many daughters and sons come through Seth why dont I see Cain's line of daughters? When were daughters born to his line?

I gotta look into this more

Edit typos
 
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Divide

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@BobRyan makes a compelling argument that they were, I am still working on defining Sons of God which I believe is the key.

Then he needs to keep studying. That the Nephilim were sons of God means that they were Angels, a direct creation of God. Every instance in the OT where it says sons of God is talking about Angels.

Now in the NT it says that we may be given the power to become sons of God. Adam & Eve were not nephilim, period. God does not create hybrids. ...Each after their own kind...go read it in Genesis!
 
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Divide

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@BobRyan makes a compelling argument that they were, I am still working on defining Sons of God which I believe is the key.

This man has studied it out about the Nephilim. He walks you through the different views about the nephilim from scholars and expalians all about them.

He doesn't compare Nephillim to Adam & Eve. I never heard that Adam & Eve were nephilim either. Ever. This is a first!

 
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Divide

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What makes Lamech "Nephilim" in that verse?

Cain rose up and killed Able. If all it takes the act of murdering another human - that would make Cain Nephilim in your model.

How does Murder make someone a Nephilim? That is 180 degreess off.
 
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eleos1954

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Are the Nephilim human or sub-human? Will they rise again on the last day?
Angels were not given the ability to pro-create ... they neither marry ... nor are taken in marriage.

the sons of God were the descendents of Seth that were true to the Lord. The daughters of men were the daughters of Cain's descendents who had not the knowledge of God preserved.

No such thing as hybrid humans (angel/human) ... not then .... not now.

Daughters of men ... not hybrids.
 
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