Neo-Darwinian evolution is in trouble INSIDE the scientific community

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, I'm blushing with embarrassment, you are so right, get me a book by Richard Dawkins, I wanna learn about the origins ...

You need to go to kindergarten before you get to high school level material.

 

[Ronald]

Which post?

#645, Information in the our genetic material, DNA, RNA, etc.

 

[Ronald]

You need to go to kindergarten before you get to high school level material.

You need to be "BORN AGAIN", your spirit is dead!

 

[pitabread]

#645, Information in the our genetic material, DNA, RNA, etc.

That post doesn't answer my questions. At best, it sort of describes DNA, and it attempts some analogous comparisons. But it doesn't properly answer the following:

• Define "information" as it specifically pertains to DNA (don't merely describe DNA, you have to explain how it contains 'information');
• Give a unit measure of said information; and,
• Describe what constitutes an increase and/or decrease of said measure of information.

You'll have to try again.

 

[Ronald]

The Bible makes no such claims about life. You are merely putting your own spin on the Bible.

You do not seem to realize it, but you keep claiming that your god lies. Why hold such a belief?

You cannot discern what the Bible says correctly because you do not have the Holy Spirit within you. You can read and receive historical information on a superficial level but you need God to discern and receive deep spiritual meaning from the Bible. You don't even believe you have a soul, you're clueless as to what life is all about.
Hey, on a side note, are you anywhere near the Cascadia subduction zone? Well, a huge earthquake with massive tsunamis will effect that area soon. Better move to higher ground if you are in that area and get born again in the process.

 

[Ronald]

That post doesn't answer my questions. At best, it sort of describes DNA, and it attempts some analogous comparisons. But it doesn't properly answer the following:

• Define "information" as it specifically pertains to DNA (don't merely describe DNA, you have to explain how it contains 'information');
• Give a unit measure of said information; and,
• Describe what constitutes an increase and/or decrease of said measure of information.

You'll have to try again.

The color of my eyes, my skin, my hair, my biological and chemical make-up, composition of proteins, amino acids and how they are manufactured and put together to form fibers, muscles, bones, organs and systems, borrowing and combining information from my parents, basically all the information that makes me who I am, what I am and how I function physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually as well as information about life itself. It is such an enormous amount of information that a library could not contain it and you want me to give you a unit measure of said information and what constitutes and increase or decrease of that information. Which unit of said quadrillion bits of information would you like? I can't accurately define any bit of information without being God, I just know that the totality of it is vast and complex beyond my understanding and anyone else's

 

[Subduction Zone]

You need to be "BORN AGAIN", your spirit is dead!

Please, there is no need to drink the Kool-Aid as you have done. But when you try to argue science and demonstrate that you do not even have a high school level of understanding of the field you only make yourself look bad.

 

[pitabread]

It is such an enormous amount of information that a library could not contain it and you want me to give you a unit measure of said information and what constitutes and increase or decrease of that information. Which unit of said quadrillion bits of information would you like? I can't accurately define any bit of information without being God, I just know that the totality of it is vast and complex beyond my understanding and anyone else's

If you can't define information in DNA or give a unit measure of it, then how would you know if DNA even contains information in the first place?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You cannot discern what the Bible says correctly because you do not have the Holy Spirit within you. You can read and receive historical information on a superficial level but you need God to discern and receive deep spiritual meaning from the Bible. You don't even believe you have a soul, you're clueless as to what life is all about.
Hey, on a side note, are you anywhere near the Cascadia subduction zone? Well, a huge earthquake with massive tsunamis will effect that area soon. Better move to higher ground if you are in that area and get born again in the process.

Yup, if you look really really closely you can see me waving at you.

And no, no such earthquake is predicted by scientists. You are referring to a New York Times newspaper article where a writer over stated the immediate risks. And sadly according to her I am only a half mile away from safety.

 

[majj27]

You being a Christian say that this is how life is made ... without God? God uses the dust of the earth, elements in dirt, oxygen, water but life comes from life, not a process without God. JESUS is the way, the truth and the LIFE. In Him, all thing consist (are held together). That means all the atoms in the universe are held together by God. He is either in control or He isn't an all powerful God.

Me being a Christian KNOWS this is how life made, because just about everything in the universe consists of chemicals, and if you have them assembled together on Earth in the right pattern, with energy and time, you get living things. For example, the creation of a seed or the duplication of an amoeba.

Me, as a Christian, also know that God is present everywhere. I don't need to add God to your equation because it's like adding it to 2+2+=4. It doesn't make it any more useful to say "2+2+God's Will and In Jesus' name=4".

Likewise, saying that atomic nuclei are made of protons and neutrons and God standing there with ropes holding them together is a bad idea, because we can SPLIT atoms intentionally. If slamming two chunks of uranium together real fast overpowers God then we're all in really big trouble.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Me being a Christian KNOWS this is how life made, because just about everything in the universe consists of chemicals, and if you have them assembled together on Earth in the right pattern, with energy and time, you get living things. For example, the creation of a seed or the duplication of an amoeba.

Me, as a Christian, also know that God is present everywhere. I don't need to add God to your equation because it's like adding it to 2+2+=4. It doesn't make it any more useful to say "2+2+God's Will and In Jesus' name=4".

Likewise, saying that atomic nuclei are made of protons and neutrons and God standing there with ropes holding them together is a bad idea, because we can SPLIT atoms intentionally. If slamming two chunks of uranium together real fast overpowers God then we're all in really big trouble.

I used to be a Lutheran too. There is a church where I have a standing invitation to visit any time. Lutherans do not seem to have a problem with science, well at least some I should say. It is even official doctrine at the highest level of the sect that I was a member of that the Genesis account need not be literally true for Christianity to be correct. They did not tell their members that they had to accept or reject the theory of evolution. In fact the church that I referred to has a nice collection of some Scientific American issues.

But I love this line from your post:

' It doesn't make it any more useful to say "2+2+God's Will and In Jesus' name=4".'

Creationists always seem arrogant to me since they are telling their God how he had to make the Earth.

 

[Ronald]

If you can't define information in DNA or give a unit measure of it, then how would you know if DNA even contains information in the first place?

This is what everyone taught, is it not, that DNA contains the building blocks/information of an organism? I couldn't tell you how a hydrogen atom is made. Can you? Can you tell me how a basic protein is made and please list the amino acids it's composed of and how they are made? Please stop with your trivial questions. If don't know what information well ask your mommy, maybe she can explain it to you. Tell her to go slow, starting with conception, the division of cells and move on to the formation of the fetus, how it all is put together intricately with the all the bones, fibers, muscles and organs, the various systems right up until she gave birth to you. Oh, wait, she doesn't have a clue ... she doesn't have the information? Well, then how does she know that it even happened?

 

[Ronald]

Me being a Christian KNOWS this is how life made, because just about everything in the universe consists of chemicals, and if you have them assembled together on Earth in the right pattern, with energy and time, you get living things. For example, the creation of a seed or the duplication of an amoeba.

Me, as a Christian, also know that God is present everywhere. I don't need to add God to your equation because it's like adding it to 2+2+=4. It doesn't make it any more useful to say "2+2+God's Will and In Jesus' name=4".

Likewise, saying that atomic nuclei are made of protons and neutrons and God standing there with ropes holding them together is a bad idea, because we can SPLIT atoms intentionally. If slamming two chunks of uranium together real fast overpowers God then we're all in really big trouble.

Your bold words above just refuted what that Bible claims, that God created life. What force holds the protons and neutrons and electrons in orbit? What force holds the planets from just flying off into outer space, yet they remain in perfect orbit for thousands of years? You might say gravity. But then why aren't they pulled into the Sun?

You should know better, never leave God out of the equation!

 

[majj27]

Your bold words above just refuted what that Bible claims, that God created life. What force holds the protons and neutrons and electrons in orbit? What force holds the planets from just flying off into outer space, yet they remain in perfect orbit for thousands of years? You might say gravity. But then why aren't they pulled into the Sun?

You should know better, never leave God out of the equation!

In order?

1) It does not in any such way refute God creating life.
2) That would be the strong interaction and electromagnetism.
3) That would be gravity.
4) Because they are in orbit. Balance between forward motion and gravitational attraction.

And you know what? NONE of my answers dismiss, disprove, or deny God. How bout that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is what everyone taught, is it not, that DNA contains the building blocks/information of an organism? I couldn't tell you how a hydrogen atom is made. Can you? Can you tell me how a basic protein is made and please list the amino acids it's composed of and how they are made? Please stop with your trivial questions. If don't know what information well ask your mommy, maybe she can explain it to you. Tell her to go slow, starting with conception, the division of cells and move on to the formation of the fetus, how it all is put together intricately with the all the bones, fibers, muscles and organs, the various systems right up until she gave birth to you. Oh, wait, she doesn't have a clue ... she doesn't have the information? Well, then how does she know that it even happened?

So now you are admitting that you had no clue and should not have made the "DNA is information" claim.

Perhaps you are getting somewhere.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Oh, I'm blushing with embarrassment, you are so right, get me a book by Richard Dawkins, I wanna learn about the origins ...

Why Richard Dawkins? Is that the only name you know?

Here's what I would recommend: pick up a biochemistry textbook. Try learning the chemistry you are discussing here. That would be great! You don't have to read Dawkins. You can go straight to the raw hardcore science.

 

[Obliquinaut]

You need to be "BORN AGAIN", your spirit is dead!

Does being "Born Again" allow one to critique topics they don't know anything about?

 

[Obliquinaut]

You cannot discern what the Bible says correctly because you do not have the Holy Spirit within you.

I hope others have pointed out to you how painful it is to read stuff like this. You are saying you have to BELIEVE in the Bible in order to read what it says correctly.

It makes God's word into the most weak tea imaginable.

TRUTH speaks for itself and CAUSES PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IT.

Sorry if that is a problem for the Bible.

You can read and receive historical information on a superficial level but you need God to discern and receive deep spiritual meaning from the Bible.

Not really. There's amazingly beautiful passages that are inspiring in the Bible. (Granted there's also some horrors like 1Sam 15:3). But I can appreciate some of the great ideals in the bible like helping others, not judging others, controlling one's pride (and that means not being so proud about one's ignorance that they use it to critique things of which they are ignorant).

I even like the concept of GRACE. Granted, a more "secular form" but still.

Hey, on a side note, are you anywhere near the Cascadia subduction zone?

I live right on top of it. I can see the one of the volcanoes from the end of my street.

Well, a huge earthquake with massive tsunamis will effect that area soon. Better move to higher ground if you are in that area and get born again in the process.

I'm actively waiting for it. Indeed a "Cascadia Event" is discussed around here. Not sure how imminent the threat is, but indeed a good set of earthquakes can happen here. Maybe even a volcanic eruption! That'd be interesting.

 

[Ronald]

In order?

1) It does not in any such way refute God creating life.
2) That would be the strong interaction and electromagnetism.
3) That would be gravity.
4) Because they are in orbit. Balance between forward motion and gravitational attraction.

And you know what? NONE of my answers dismiss, disprove, or deny God. How bout that?

Mathematical laws, astrophysics, you know, all the above you mentioned that keeps the universe in balance and doing what it is doing in such a precisely fine tuned way, was not invented, it was discovered. The laws are contingent on each other as if they were designed that way -- they couldn't have happened by chance, an explosion and then order. God orders and put into motion all those mechanics of the universe. Even Einstein pondered that it is to ordered and finely to have happened by chance. As I said, "in Him, all things consist".

 

[Ronald]

Why Richard Dawkins? Is that the only name you know?

Here's what I would recommend: pick up a biochemistry textbook. Try learning the chemistry you are discussing here. That would be great! You don't have to read Dawkins. You can go straight to the raw hardcore science.

With all the recommendations and criticisms, because of my lack of knowledge, no one here has given me a biochemically educated answer as to the mechanism in the TOE that changes one species into a different species and then where all that informatiom that's contained in our DNA comes from, or how did the first cell get it. Because it appears that basic chemical molecules are irreducibly complex, they began that way. A paramecium is complex. Explain these things to me professor.