Neo-Darwinian evolution is in trouble INSIDE the scientific community

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

I like how they spend billions $ to prove evolution for nothing , while they could just maybe read Bible before doing that. Same goes for trying to find aliens while people on earth can't even afford education in third world countries.

 

[Obliquinaut]

I like how they spend billions $ to prove evolution for nothing , while they could just maybe read Bible before doing that. Same goes for trying to find aliens while people on earth can't even afford education in third world countries.

Ummm, evolution is actually applied in the biological sciences which leads to advances in healthcare and overall quality of life.

 

[Ronald]

IN A CLOSED SYSTEM. This is where that phrase fits. IN A CLOSED SYSTEM. In other words I can put water (higher entropy) into a freezer in my kitchen and make a LOWER ENTROPY system in a couple hours with no sweat. BECAUSE I'M NOT IN A CLOSED SYSTEM.

You think small, respond in a simplistic way. The finite universe is a closed system and therefore entropy applies to it. The stars will burn out, even electromagnetic and gravitational energy will as well and sooner than ya'll think. Darwin should have been put in a freezer when he first came out with his theory, then thawed out hundred years later.

 

[Ronald]

Just being honest there. I hope you will likewise be honest about your understanding of the rest of the science.



Well, to be fair I don't have all the time in the world to look up these things for you but I can. That statement isn't really shallow at all. The reason so many biological processes occur is because chemical compounds coordinate, often through hydrogen bonding.

For instance this is why we Cytosine pairing with Guanine in DNA (they are the C and G of GATC)

The dashed lines are HYDROGEN BONDS. Bases pair because of this.

Proteins themselves take on very complex CONFORMATIONS and the conformations dictate a great deal of the FUNCTION of the protein. But in the end, for all it's complexity, it's pretty straightforward chemistry.

I know you're gone now because, well that's what you guys do. Talk big and when finally someone does put up some science you ignore it or simply run away. I've seen it so many times it becomes painful.

YOU GUYS DO THIS ALL THE TIME. You berate and cajole for people to give you science. We give you science and you berate and cajole. We give you even MORE science and you simply run away.

After a few years of it one gets inured to it and simply stops putting up a lot of effort to give you guys science.

I am giving you the level of science you need...pretty basic and simplistic. If I were to go to the effort of giving you more it would be a waste of effort on my part.

There is a wall between atheism, the science you formulated to prop it up and the belief in God. This is an example above, you claim proteins determine by their shape what they are going to do - you see to me that is laughable. God determines what that protein does and so yes I must brush the dirt off my sandals and bid ya'll good-bye. That is what Jesus told us to do: spread the gospel, love, help them, preach, teach, plead with them for awhile, but then if they persist to resist the message and you feel you aren't getting anywhere, move on. Paul did this, he would spend a few weeks in an area, sometimes more. Certain communities responded with hostility, he'd get cursed at, mocked, beat up, thrown in jail, get out and move on. You know the old phrase about "beating a dead horse" or "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"? Well, we can spread the gospel, but you can't force people to believe and truly God doesn't force anyone to love Him, He offers reconciliation and does so numerous times throughout a person's life. But I tell you that He too will get to a point and let you go to your own demise. Bye!

 

[Ronald]

You're getting your scientific information from a tiny comic book, and you think that's all you need to refute those who spend their lives studying these things.

People spend their lives sinning, in darkness, going their own way, rebelling against God, gathering together in their support groups who manufacture reasons not to believe and they feed on these lies as they are contrived, hungering for the next morsel ... water on mars, finding life elsewhere in the universe, etc. It's a house of cards that will soon come crashing down leaving only one card face up, The JOKER.

 

[pitabread]

That is what Jesus told us to do: spread the gospel, love, help them, preach, teach, plead with them for awhile, but then if they persist to resist the message and you feel you aren't getting anywhere, move on.

Do you honestly think your approach is effective? Do you think that maybe you're not getting results because your approach is, y'know, not good?

Coming to a C&E forum and picking a fight over science, particularly with folks that have been dealing with this sort of thing for decades is going to get you nowhere. Especially when some of your source material appears to have been cribbed from Chick tracts of all things (not a reputable source of anything).

At what point did you think you were going to have any success here?

But I tell you that He too will get to a point and let you go to your own demise.

And it all comes down to a veiled threat in the end. How sad.

 

[xianghua]

That's a good question. There's so many. I am impressed by TRANSITIONAL FORMS . I especially like Tiktaalik which was predicted and later found in the right age of geologic formation.

I remember my undergrad days in my paleontology class when our class project was to go to the local quarry in the middle of the US (Illinois) to find fossils. The quarry had been gone over for years of classes and most people pulled up brachiopods (ocean creatures...look on a map and see where Illinois is today). I was crawling across a shale pile the size of house and stumbled across a SHARK'S TOOTH (again, look at where Illinois is at and measure the distance to the nearest ocean, hint it's a long way). It wasn't like a modern sharks tooth. It was small. From a cladodont level shark that used to exist in a sea that used to exist. I saw the vastness of time in that one event. Couple that with a few more years of crawling over other rocks in other places seeing other life forms (along with additional evidence of evolution) and you've got someone who believes in evolution based on data.

I'm not a genetics guy but the various genetic evidences of evolution also impress me. I have just enough simple understanding of biology to appreciate it.

ok. so your favorite evidence is the transitional fossils. however, transitional fossils cant be evidence for evolution because several reasons:

1)we found many of them out of order. for instance: even your tiktaalik example appearing to late in the geologic column. see this image:

Tiktaalik - Wikipedia

you can see that the first evidence for a tetrapod is about 400my, when the first evidence for tiktaalik is about 20my later. so its basically in the wrong order.

2)even if it was in the correct order it will not be evidence for evolution, because we can arrange even objects like vehicles in order ( a car--> a jeep--> a truck). but it doesnt prove any evolution. even if those vehicles were able to reproduce like a living things they will not prove evolution in this case.

 

[pitabread]

It's a house of cards that will soon come crashing down leaving only one card face up, The JOKER.

Promises, promises...

 

[xianghua]

Try again in English. The article was about how a specific gene had different ERV's in different areas and how it affected that gene. Yes, similar results can occur through evolution.

i asked you a very simple question. what kind of evidence will falsified you claim about nested hierarchy? (means evolution is false).

 

[Ronald]

Do you honestly think your approach is effective? Do you think that maybe you're not getting results because your approach is, y'know, not good?

This section of the Christian forum concerning creationism vs evolution I believe doesn't get much results, I see the same people over the years on each separate side arguing their points. There's a wall between us. I'm aware that many have their foot on both sides of the wall, the theistic evolutionists, but they are not who we need to witness to, they believe in God, some in a shallow way, some very deeply. If anyone that has been on the Christian forum for several years, came to this forum as an atheist and has converted to Christianity, let me know. Likewise if any Christian coming to this forum, has in that time period been lured over to the other side and abandoned Jesus and the Bible, let me know as well. I haven't seen any. I just think the atheists are on a mission (of the Devil's design) to dismantle our faith in God and lure Christians (the weaker ones and/or newer ones) to their side and they use their false theory. The school systems teach this theory and this also puts an obstacle at least in the way of people seeking God.
I comfort in the fact that God is Sovereign and so His plan for His own will succeed. At the end of the day, God has His list, His sheep, whom He will call and His sheep will hear His voice, the rest ...

 

[Subduction Zone]

i asked you a very simple question. what kind of evidence will falsified you claim about nested hierarchy? (means evolution is false).

I gave you an example and you failed to find one. Did you forget already?

 

[Obliquinaut]

you claim proteins determine by their shape what they are going to do - you see to me that is laughable.

Why? That's how they work! I'm sorry but this is just basic biochem. It is not just the chemical bonds but the shapes. This is stuff you learn in undergrad.

That is what Jesus told us to do: spread the gospel, love, help them, preach, teach, plead with them for awhile, but then if they persist to resist the message and you feel you aren't getting anywhere, move on.

Because learning the science you debate against is hard work! Best to just run away after people fail to accept your word for the science.

Paul did this, he would spend a few weeks in an area, sometimes more.

Yeah, you're just like Paul.

Certain communities responded with hostility, he'd get cursed at, mocked, beat up, thrown in jail, get out and move on.

No one is attacking your faith. They are attacking your misapprehension of science you are critiquing.

That's it. You are free to believe as you wish, but your "criticism" of the science fails because you haven't taken the time to learn the science that you are critiquing.

You know the old phrase about "beating a dead horse" or "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"? Well, we can spread the gospel, but you can't force people to believe and truly God doesn't force anyone to love Him, He offers reconciliation and does so numerous times throughout a person's life. But I tell you that He too will get to a point and let you go to your own demise. Bye!

Yeah, thanks. Hope you got the little shiver of pleasure when you typed that. Everytime you guys can't get people to accept your version of science (usually because you clearly don't understand it) you get to pull out the "My buddy God is gonna mess you up because you didn't gimme what I wanted! You just wait and see!"

What a sick theology.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

Ummm, evolution is actually applied in the biological sciences which leads to advances in healthcare and overall quality of life.

Yea there are 4 types of evolution i believe , but every time somebody say evolution everybody thinks about macro evolution , from rock to human not micro evolution within population.

 

[pitabread]

I just think the atheists are on a mission (of the Devil's design) to dismantle our faith in God and lure Christians (the weaker ones and/or newer ones) to their side and they use their false theory. The school systems teach this theory and this also puts an obstacle at least in the way of people seeking God.

By "false theory", you mean the Theory of Evolution? Because if you think that it's part of some sort of atheistic conspiracy, then you're way off base.

I already explained to you and gave you sources about the Theory of Evolution (biologically speaking) being an applied science with real-world implications. When you go after science, that is what you're really up against; a useful science that is being applied around the world in various industries (medicine/pharmacology, agriculture, conservation biology, etc) as we speak. And this is why it will continue to be taught in schools; there are real-world considerations around both human economy and health/well-being that are at stake.

By creating this artificial divide between science and religion, you're effectively setting yourself up for failure from the get-go. It's a fight creationists just can't win.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

By "false theory", you mean the Theory of Evolution? Because if you think that it's part of some sort of atheistic conspiracy, then you're way off base.

I already explained to you and gave you sources about the Theory of Evolution (biologically speaking) being an applied science with real-world implications. When you go after science, that is what you're really up against; a useful science that is being applied around the world in various industries (medicine/pharmacology, agriculture, conservation biology, etc) as we speak. And this is why it will continue to be taught in schools; there are real-world considerations around both human economy and health/well-being that are at stake.

By creating this artificial divide between science and religion, you're effectively setting yourself up for failure from the get-go. It's a fight creationists just can't win.

Ok since God didn't create anything then explain me how universe began .

Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Therefore, the universe has a cause.

What caused universe to begin?

 

[bhsmte]

Ok since God didn't create anything then explain me how universe began .

Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Therefore, the universe has a cause.

What caused universe to begin?

No one knows. Anyone who claims to know, is making stuff up.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

No one knows. Anyone who claims to know, is making stuff up.

Tough question i give you , if you disagree it you disagree laws that you believe which makes your points false.
If you agree that God started universe then it makes your points false too.

You have nowhere to go but you are still stubborn and will quote somebody who you think will impress me because you think that i should take his authority over truth.

I'm really sorry , you are really lost .

 

[bhsmte]

Tough question i give you , if you disagree it you disagree laws that you believe which makes your points false.
If you agree that God started universe then it makes your points false too.

You have nowhere to go but you are still stubborn and will quote somebody who you think will impress me because you think that i should take his authority over truth.

I'm really sorry , you are really lost .

No idea where this came from, or how it relates to my response.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

No idea where this came from, or how it relates to my response.

Ofc you don't see because without people like you Scripture could not be fullfilled. I give you truth and you simply reject it because you are blind .

Psalm 135:16-17

They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

Thanks for fullfilling them

 

[Ronald]

Why? That's how they work! I'm sorry but this is just basic biochem. It is not just the chemical bonds but the shapes. This is stuff you learn in undergrad.



Because learning the science you debate against is hard work! Best to just run away after people fail to accept your word for the science.



Yeah, you're just like Paul.



No one is attacking your faith. They are attacking your misapprehension of science you are critiquing.

That's it. You are free to believe as you wish, but your "criticism" of the science fails because you haven't taken the time to learn the science that you are critiquing.



Yeah, thanks. Hope you got the little shiver of pleasure when you typed that. Everytime you guys can't get people to accept your version of science (usually because you clearly don't understand it) you get to pull out the "My buddy God is gonna mess you up because you didn't gimme what I wanted! You just wait and see!"

What a sick theology.

This is basic doctrine. "The wages if SIN is death". This is why we all need a Savior.
Sin is the sickness that corrupts our lives in everyway, mind, body, spirit and every living thing on the entire planet. Sin is actually where defects, bacteria, viruses, diseases and all sorts of evil originated. Mutations are defects and so ironically, our science bases its core function on defects (that apparently they think some as beneficial) and nature ( mindless and corrupted as well).