need some help regarding old testiment law

[squint]

Jesus does not speak of unclean meat as food.
He is talking about eating with hands that are not ceremonially clean.

Jesus is not talking about eating vultures, rats, dogs, pigs and sea creatures that don't have both fins and scales.

There is never any place in the Bible that makes these detestable things clean or good for food.

Matt. 15:
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

 

[ThomasDa]

Matt. 15:
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

We have been through this two or three times in this thread already.
He is talking about eating with a little dirt on you hands.
Hands that were not ceremonially clean.

There is no mention of unclean animals or their meat in these passages.

Like it says in verse 10, "hear AND UNDERSTAND"

You can't just insert a subject that is not even being talked about.

 

[MamaZ]

He is not taking about washing of hands. He is saying that there is nothing that goes within a man that can defile him. Only what comes out of His mouth.

 

[Frogster]

You need to slow down and not be so quick to insert your own ideas into God's Word. His thoughts are not your thoughts.

Hi.In all fairness,I showed how it says,eat the meat,it was not vegetables.

 

[squint]

We have been through this two or three times in this thread already.
He is talking about eating with a little dirt on you hands.
Hands that were not ceremonially clean.

Were that the ONLY CASE Jesus would not have said NOTHING going therein makes a man unclean.

There is no mention of unclean animals or their meat in these passages.

Like it says in verse 10, "hear AND UNDERSTAND"

You can't just insert a subject that is not even being talked about.

Nothing might appear a term (to some) to be rather encompassing. Vultures might taste bad, but I'm sure were they properly prepared they might be rather tasty, not that I would personally care to try them.

Vultures btw in the spiritual sense do not mean 'physical vultures.' The Law is Spiritual. The term does point to 'workings' other than a dead meat eating birds. Just as the term 'wolf' or 'wolves' equate to the workings of DEVILS in mankind...so do the UNCLEAN birds steal GODS WORDS from their minds...Fish with 'fins and scales' also point to those 'protected' and 'equipped' to navigate the waters of the DEVILS WORDS...the SEA of BABYLON...those same 'words' of DRAGON FLOOD is swallowed up by the earth of our bodies helping digest that meal therein...Split hooves meaning rightful division of the WORD...cud chewing able to disgest and process what A MAN consists of...etc etc etc...many many interesting things therein...to the discerning viewers.

 

[ThomasDa]

Were that the ONLY CASE Jesus would not have said NOTHING going therein makes a man unclean.



Nothing might appear a term (to some) to be rather encompassing. Vultures might taste bad, but I'm sure were they properly prepared they might be rather tasty, not that I would personally care to try them.

Vultures btw in the spiritual sense do not mean 'physical vultures.' The Law is Spiritual. The term does point to 'workings' other than a dead meat eating birds. Just as the term 'wolf' or 'wolves' equate to the workings of DEVILS in mankind...so do the UNCLEAN birds steal GODS WORDS from their minds...Fish with 'fins and scales' also point to those 'protected' and 'equipped' to navigate the waters of the DEVILS WORDS...the SEA of BABYLON...those same 'words' of DRAGON FLOOD is swallowed up by the earth of our bodies helping digest that meal therein...Split hooves meaning rightful division of the WORD...cud chewing able to disgest and process what A MAN consists of...etc etc etc...many many interesting things therein...to the discerning viewers.

Kinda funny but of no value. Actually kinda silly.

 

[squint]

Kinda funny but of no value. Actually kinda silly.

'bout as silly as you thinking some piece of organic material has some spiritual value

 

[ThomasDa]

'bout as silly as you thinking some piece of organic material has some spiritual value

You are being disingenuous about what I said. I said no such thing and you know it.
The Pharisees were attacking Jesus' disciples for not washing their hands the way they said to.
Jesus said that was not important. He said a little dirt is no big thing. I agree with Jesus.

 

[squint]

You are being disingenuous about what I said. I said no such thing and you know it.
The Pharisees were attacting Jesus' disciples for not washing their hands the way they said to.
Jesus said that was not important. He said a little dirt is no big thing.

And why is it that you only see dirt, hands and water when Jesus quite clearly said NOTHING ENTERING A MAN defiles him?

Defilement is clearly A HEART MATTER...an INNER working of SIN AND EVIL therein.

Gods Word is SPIRIT...therefore THIS APPLIES to ALL OF GODS WORDS:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

NOW, you are certainly welcome to look @ all the rats and vultures in a fleshly manner any way you please AND you can continue to (potentially condemn) people for eating PORK, but none of that FLESHLY understanding is of ANY value, particularly if the RESULTS of your legal views results in the CONDEMNATION of your neighbors...because THAT is a working of the the other side of these equations...that is brought on IN THE FLESH by exposure to THE WORD.

And MANY show and reveal that working IN THEM.

s

 

[ThomasDa]

The subject being discused was ceremonial washings not unclean meat.
That was "everything' He was talking about. Not everything you might want to make it into.

 

[squint]

The subject being discused was ceremonial washings not unclean meat.

The external washing of the hands was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

The gathering (work) of plucking ears of corn and eating by the disciples was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

And the Pharisees sought CONDEMNATION to them in both events.

in likewise manner some still USE the Law to bring CONDEMNATION...when the DESIRE of the LAW and of God in Christ is MERCY, TRUTH and LOVE.

That was "everything' He was talking about. Not everything you might want to make it into.

Just as the non-washing was meaningless, so are the showings of the UNCLEAN EXTERNAL (food.)

ALL the LAW is a matter of heart, of the working of the unseen within.

By bringing CONDEMNATION to any man and lording their personal performances of LAW over the falsely supposed CONDEMNED, that one is showing the workings of EVIL within their own flesh/mind which then COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTH (or their fingertips.)

enjoy!

squint

 

[ThomasDa]

The external washing of the hands was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

The gathering (work) of plucking ears of corn and eating by the disciples was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

And the Pharisees sought CONDEMNATION to them in both events.

in likewise manner some still USE the Law to bring CONDEMNATION...when the DESIRE of the LAW and of God in Christ is MERCY, TRUTH and LOVE.

Well for a second it looked like you were about to get it.

Just as the non-washing was meaningless, so are the showings of the UNCLEAN EXTERNAL (food.)

ALL the LAW is a matter of heart, of the working of the unseen within.

By bringing CONDEMNATION to any man and lording their personal performances of LAW over the falsely supposed CONDEMNED, that one is showing the workings of EVIL within their own flesh/mind which then COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTH (or their fingertips.)

enjoy!

squint

But you fell back into darkness. (sigh) You don't understand the difference in God's Law and the things men had added to it.

 

[squint]

But you fell back into darkness. (sigh) You don't understand the difference in God's Law and the things men had added to it.

Oh, you mean IF I don't use the LAW to condemn my fellow man and instead LOVE THEM, I'm in darkness?

lol

 

[ThomasDa]

Oh, you mean IF I don't use the LAW to condemn my fellow man and instead LOVE THEM, I'm in darkness?

lol

Well, you're right about one thing, that is LOL. Of course I never said anything like that, but you don't seem to care what anyone says except yourself.

 

[SummaScriptura]

I think its clear ThomasDa, you said Squint is in darkness; that's not an LOL matter.

Let's face it, should someone wish to submit to the yoke of Moses, it is their prerogative to do so, and also to live by it.

 

[visionary]

The external washing of the hands was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

The gathering (work) of plucking ears of corn and eating by the disciples was MEANINGLESS as it pertained to 'the Law.'

And the Pharisees sought CONDEMNATION to them in both events.

in likewise manner some still USE the Law to bring CONDEMNATION...when the DESIRE of the LAW and of God in Christ is MERCY, TRUTH and LOVE.



Just as the non-washing was meaningless, so are the showings of the UNCLEAN EXTERNAL (food.)

ALL the LAW is a matter of heart, of the working of the unseen within.

By bringing CONDEMNATION to any man and lording their personal performances of LAW over the falsely supposed CONDEMNED, that one is showing the workings of EVIL within their own flesh/mind which then COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTH (or their fingertips.)

enjoy!

squint

It would be better if you used God's law in your example rather than some man's tradition. to prove your point... but alas you can't... so you substituted that which God condemns through Yeshua on the religious leaders of that day.. which doesn't prove your point...

God's law is not meaningless and His law is a matter of the heart and the workings of the unseen within.. which can negatively be manifested in the rebellion in the mind and acted out in the sin or... manifested in the obedience in the mind and acted out in the life of the believer.

 

[ThomasDa]

I think its clear ThomasDa, you said Squint is in darkness; that's not an LOL matter.

Let's face it, should someone wish to submit to the yoke of Moses, it is their prerogative to do so, and also to live by it.

Where do you people get this stuff?

 

[squint]

It would be better if you used God's law in your example rather than some man's tradition. to prove your point... but alas you can't...

I have no point to prove, and even less cause to condemn people under the Law. I can however READ PAUL about the LAW, see that it STANDS and that it does so to the extent of LOVING MY NEIGHBORS AS MYSELF. Any other use of same should be called on the carpet for examination.

IF you find FAULT in the FINAL CONCLUSION of LOVE for ALL my neighbors using the LAW, please advise.

so you substituted that which God condemns through Yeshua on the religious leaders of that day.. which doesn't prove your point...

I have no issues with ANY of what Jesus said. We may certainly see differently about 'whom' or 'what' Jesus was addressing.

God's law is not meaningless

Never said it was! I too believe every jot and tittle still stands today as effective as it was in the day it was given. Yer point is what? That I must use the LAW which was meant to bring LIFE AND LOVE to my neighbors and rather use it for CONDEMNATION to them and to justify myself? lol and NO THANK YOU.

and His law is a matter of the heart and the workings of the unseen within.. which can negatively be manifested in the rebellion in the mind and acted out in the sin or... manifested in the obedience in the mind and acted out in the life of the believer.

One does not eradicate the presence of indwelling sin and evil present by masking over it with external manifestations of fleshly law observances.

The produce of that same LAW is and remans busting out right here at these posting boards IN CONDEMNATION to those we are to LOVE.

That tells me it's a very potent working 'within.' Who it is arousing in people is another question on that side of the ledger, eh?

enjoy!

squint

 

[visionary]

Never said it was! I too believe every jot and tittle still stands today as effective as it was in the day it was given. Yer point is what? That I must use the LAW which was meant to bring LIFE AND LOVE to my neighbors and rather use it for CONDEMNATION to them and to justify myself? lol and NO THANK YOU.

I agree... our use of God's law is not for us to judge and condemn our fellowman, but a means to look in the mirror and live in the life and love of God... and may it show up in the way we treat our neighbours. .. At the same time it is also a witness to those who do not choose to live it, it is a witness to and for living righteously by God's definitions. The law will never be a good thing to use as justification for unloving behavior. God is the judge and He will be using it to draw the line between the obedience unto faith and those who do not obey His Law. He will rightly divide those who keep the law without His SPirit and those who do not keep the law and point to His blood as an excuse... from those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua..

 

[squint]

I agree... our use of God's law is not for us to judge and condemn our fellowman, but a means to look in the mirror and live in the life and love of God... and may it show up in the way we treat our neighbours. .. At the same time it is also a witness to those who do not choose to live it, it is a witness to and for living righteously by God's definitions.

And you will forgive me if I don't expect the EVIL PRESENT within my flesh/mind and the indwelling SIN to EVER be legal? Nor will any of my VAIN attempts change the facts of that presence.

This is called standing UNDER THE LIGHT OF DISCLOSURES of that LAW in TRUTH. I can live with THE TRUTH. I can't live IN DEnial of the scriptural facts that the LAW brings me, personally.

The law will never be a good thing to use as justification for unloving behavior.

But of course don't you SEE that when you bring CONDEMNATION to BLINDED CAPTIVES of the 'god of this world' you ARE practicing CONDEMNATION to them for 'non'obedience?

HOW can they BELIEVE if the 'god of this world' has BLINDED THEIR MINDS??? Why in the 'world' would I blame BLINDED CAPTIVES for that working? Better to LOVE THEM and HOPE for their BEST! I consider those who overlook the FACTS on this matter and ONLY BLAME CAPTIVES are somewhat blind to OPEN FACTS as well, AND being 'used' to bring them CONDEMNATION. All determined by me under Law mind you.

God is the judge and He will be using it to draw the line between the obedience unto faith and those who do not obey His Law.

The Laws commands have not changed ONE WHIT. God DEMANDS perfection 'under the LAW.' And under the light of THAT FACT I must face first 'my own imperfections.' The imperfections of other people are probably the LAST THING on my mind when I have a LOG OF MY OWN to deal with. In fact their LOG looks remarkably similar to A SLIVER in comparison to my OWN.

He will rightly divide those who keep the law without His SPirit and those who do not keep the law and point to His blood as an excuse... from those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua..

But of course you don't SEE that you have again merely used the LAW to convey DEATH and not LIFE AND LOVE.

There really are far better ways to arrive at far better conclusions in relation to our neighbors and fellow believers. But to do that one has to take the disclosures of LAW personally, and not just try to cover up those disclosures with false expectations and false performances 'within.'

If I observed every jot and tittle and did not love my neighbors the Law has availed me NOTHING and I am nothing in the process by the observations of LAW because I gained NOTHING but false self justification.

enjoy!

squint