need some help regarding old testiment law

[squint]

The OT Law and commandments were not the things nailed to the cross. I was right, you have no idea what was nailed to the cross.

Vultures, rats, snakes, dogs, pigs and any other thing declared to be unclean meat in the Bible is not FOOD.

And imagine if God said those were CLEAN and MUST be et? None of us would ever have a pet of those kinds again other than on our plates.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I tell the SDA's that ritual Saturday worship was instuited by Moses, and it was a regulation of the Mosaic and Davidic covenants. We are not entered into those covenants and we are not subject to those regulations. We are entered into the coventant established by Christ, and ritual Saturday worship is not a regulation of Christ's covenant.

The Sabbath was created at creation at not with any covenant. Why was the Sabbath even made at creation about 2000 years before Moses if it was just for a covenant. Can you show me in the bible what is the covenant instituted by Christ and what it involves? What is the change made between both covenants?

Okay, the same goes for your pork regulation: It is a regulation of the Mosaic and Davidic covenants. We are not entered into those covenants and we are not subject to those regulations. We are entered into the coventant established by Christ, and He never commanded that we follow such rules.

It was already stated by it needs to be restated. Clean and unclean foods were known since the days of Noah. Before the law concerning those foods were given it was already known. Before the law concerning idolatry was given it was already known. Before the law concerning graven images were given it was already known. Before the law concerning the Sabbath was given it was already known. Many of the laws were given as a reminder to the people for things they already know and things they might have forgotton being in bondage for over 400 years. The digestive system of a pig back then is no different to how it is now. The purpose of the pig back then is no different to its purpose now. Why did God give laws concerning clean and unclean foods? Just to give us a set of rules? Does God just give a set of rules with no beneficial purpose? It is for our health. Why do you think the children of israel lived longer than the people of other nations. The God who created our bodies should know what is best for us so why should he decide in the NT that he should allow us to eat whatever we want.

Different rules for different groups and their respective covenants.

So what are the rules for the people of the Davidic covenant? How is it different to the rules for those in the mosaic covenant?

 

[Frogster]

We are in the Abrahamic covenant.It preceeded the law.In fact,the law had to be removed,so that Gentiles could recieve the promise,as it says in Galatians 3:14.I am so happy to be in grace,and to have a true rest.I struggled under law,and let me tell you,it is not God's way.When I let go,his power was perfected in my weakness.

 

[ThomasDa]

We are in the Abrahamic covenant.It preceeded the law.In fact,the law had to be removed,so that Gentiles could recieve the promise,as it says in Galatians 3:14.I am so happy to be in grace,and to have a true rest.I struggled under law,and let me tell you,it is not God's way.When I let go,his power was perfected in my weakness.

That's funny. You have to be kidding.
Gal. 3:14 says no such thing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We are in the Abrahamic covenant.It preceeded the law.

In fact,the law had to be removed,so that Gentiles could recieve the promise,as it says in Galatians 3:14.I am so happy to be in grace,and to have a true rest.I struggled under law,and let me tell you,it is not God's way.When I let go,his power was perfected in my weakness.

And who was in charge of the Law during the time of Jesus and Paul

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a father we are having, the Abraham'.
For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God, out of the stones, these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me, that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Christian Forums
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

 

[Frogster]

That's funny. You have to be kidding.
Gal. 3:14 says no such thing.

Sure it does,it says redeemed from the curse..SO THAT THE blessing might come to the Gentiles.The promise came by faith,not the law as per Galatians 3:18 and Romans 4:13.

 

[Frogster]

And who was in charge of the Law during the time of Jesus and Paul

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a father we are having, the Abraham'.
For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God, out of the stones, these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me, that I am being pained in the Flame this."

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable - Christian Forums
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

I dont quite undertsand what you mean,the promise came 430 years before the law,and the law is not of faith,and the just shall live by faith,and those are the sons of Abraham.Galatians 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I dont quite undertsand what you mean,the promise came 430 years before the law,and the law is not of faith,and the just shall live by faith,and those are the sons of Abraham.Galatians 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

I agree!
I can picture that "great chasm" in Luke 16:26 as symbolizing that FAITH
Note Luke 16:26 and Hebrew 11:29 and the greek words used #1224, and note the other greek word #1276 used.
Would make for an interesting thread

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry, which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

[Frogster]

I agree!
I can picture that "great chasm" in Luke 16:26 as symbolizing that FAITH
Note Luke 16:26 and Hebrew 11:29 and the greek words used #1224, and note the other greek word #1276 used.
Would make for an interesting thread

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Seaas thru Dry, which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Yes Little lamb of Jesus,that was an excellent point,and would be a great idea for a thread.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes Little lamb of Jesus,that was an excellent point,and would be a great idea for a thread.

I started deeply studying that "Covenantle Parable" some years back when I saw so many commentaries expressing that parable being the most "misunderstood" parable in the Bible.

I spent weeks translating it from the greek and once I did, it just seem to come alive to me.

That Parable and Revelation seem to just go together like "white on rice" in my most humble view.

Just do a google search for "richman and lazarus parable" and you will see what I mean. I found this commentary practically dead-on with it. Thoughts?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/abraham/abrahams_bosom.htm

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave?

 

[ARBITER01]

Sure it does,it says redeemed from the curse..SO THAT THE blessing might come to the Gentiles.The promise came by faith,not the law as per Galatians 3:18 and Romans 4:13.

That's exactly right.

GOD reached back to the promises HE made with Abraham while allowing the curse of the law of moses to stand against those not born into the "new" covenant that Jesus established.

Jesus did not add to an existing covenant, He established His own, hence why we are referred to as children of Abraham.

 

[ticker]

need some help regarding old testiment law

...you mean Jesus' help wasn't enough???

 

[Cribstyl]

The Sabbath was created at creation at not with any covenant.

PK, your evidence is a string of arguments that scriptures does not support.

Why was the Sabbath even made at creation about 2000 years before Moses if it was just for a covenant.

Text say that God rested on the seventh day, not that God kept or abserved a sabbath. We accept what is written as God's word.

Can you show me in the bible what is the covenant instituted by Christ and what it involves?

What is the change made between both covenants?

Frogster gave you the facts about Christ reestablishing the Abrahamic Covenant, this was an everlasting covenant. (excellent replies Frogster). And Yes there is also the New Covenant sealed by His blood.

First thing would be to identify the Old Covenant, then itemizes what's in the New Covenant. The fact that you may deny what is the Old Covenant makes it difficult to agree of what has really changed.... the Old or New Covenant


CRIB

 

[Frogster]

That's exactly right.

GOD reached back to the promises HE made with Abraham while allowing the curse of the law of moses to stand against those not born into the "new" covenant that Jesus established.

Jesus did not add to an existing covenant, He established His own, hence why we are referred to as children of Abraham.

Hi.Yes I also love Gal 3:29,where it says we are the offspring.The dividing wall of hostility has been removed.Eph 2:14,no more natural lineage.

 

[SummaScriptura]

<snip>and then he said we dont follow what the old testament says, only the new. to which i said ''in that case, homosexuality isnt a sin''<snip>

The New Testament does not replace the Old. Torah (instruction) is eternal, but it is the prerogative of the One who gave the Torah to make changes to the content of the Torah. God indicated this principle in the case of the Israelite who died without a son and had five daughters. In order that the man's estate would not become alienated from his tribe the Torah was changed to allow the daughters to retain it. This principle was recorded in the Law of Moses so that future generations would be put on notice: "God reserves the right to make changes to the Law".

Jesus declared all foods clean in Mark 7. Pork is allowed.

The principle spelled out in the OT that classified homosexuality as fornication and therefore as sin is upheld in the New Testament.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[ThomasDa]

Jesus does not speak of unclean meat as food.
He is talking about eating with hands that are not ceremonially clean.

Jesus is not talking about eating vultures, rats, dogs, pigs and sea creatures that don't have both fins and scales.

There is never any place in the Bible that makes these detestable things clean or good for food.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus does not speak of unclean meat as food.
He is talking about eating with hands that are not ceremonially clean.

Jesus is not talking about eating vultures, rats, dogs, pigs and sea creatures that don't have both fins and scales.

There is never any place in the Bible that makes these detestable things clean or good for food.

Other that if one had a weak conscience,Paul said 2 times in Rom 14,that all food is clean.In 1 Cor 10,he said eat everything in the Corinth meat market,and eat whatever a Gentile sets before you.

He said in 1 Tim 4,all creatures are Good.KJV(food)

And lets not forget the words of Jesus.

Luke 10:8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you.

 

[ThomasDa]

Other that if one had a weak conscience,Paul said 2 times in Rom 14,that all food is clean.In 1 Cor 10,he said eat everything in the Corinth meat market,and eat whatever a Gentile sets before you.

He said in 1 Tim 4,all creatures are Good.KJV(food)

And lets not forget the words of Jesus.

Luke 10:8Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you.

Ro. 14 is talking about people weak in the faith eating only vegetables and not eating meat.
Unclean meat IS NOT FOOD! And is not mentioned here.


1 Tim. 4 tells us Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth

These are "every creature" that is being spoken of. There is no mention here of making unclean animals clean.


1 Cor. 10 is saying that idols are nothing and cannot defile things offered to them. He is saying not to worry whether the gentiles had offered the meat to idols or not.

He says nothing about eating unclean meat.

Lk. 10, again says nothing about eating unclean meat. You have to read that into it.
That's a no, no.

You really need to read the words that are there, not what someone told you they meant.

 

[Frogster]

Ro. 14 is talking about people weak in the faith eating only vegetables and not eating meat.
Unclean meat IS NOT FOOD! And is not mentioned here.

prove it is only vegetables??!
he said everything..
And dont forget,Peter ate at a roman guards house,(Acts 11),as did Paul after converting a romans guard in Acts 16..Gentile food was "unclean"..

1 Tim. 4 tells us Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth

Yes,God created,it is good,so eat it!

These are "every creature" that is being spoken of. There is no mention here of making unclean animals clean.

It says EVERY..it does not differntiate does it?.

1 Cor. 10 is saying that idols are nothing and cannot defile things offered to them. He is saying not to worry whether the gentiles had offered the meat to idols or not.

He says nothing about eating unclean meat.

Lk. 10, again says nothing about eating unclean meat. You have to read that into it.
That's a no, no.

yes yes,he said eat whatever...

You really need to read the words that are there, not what someone told you they meant.

No,It clearly says eat,the meat.

1 Cor 10:25 NASB
Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience&#8217; sake;

Greek for eat..

esthio 2068...1) to eat
2) to eat (consume) a thing
2a) to take food, eat a meal
3) metaph. to devour, consume

Greek for meat..makellon 3111...1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market

 

[ThomasDa]

prove it is only vegetables??! (Ro. 14:2) Unclean animals or meat are never mentioned. Read the whole chapter.


And dont forget,Peter ate at a roman guards house,(Acts 11),as did Paul after converting a romans guard in Acts
(That doesn't mean that what they ate was unclean.)


16..
Gentile food was "unclean" ( God never said that. The only ones that ever said that were humans.)

You need to slow down and not be so quick to insert your own ideas into God's Word. His thoughts are not your thoughts.