Need help understanding the 1st & 4th day of creation

[BNR32FAN]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day. I will be going over this on Saturday with my family for bible study and I’ve asked 2 pastors from my church who also didn’t have an answer. So I’m hoping I can get some help on this before then. I’ve checked the Hebrew words for Day, Night, light, and darkness and I don’t see any possibility of alternative meanings for these words. I noticed that the words Day and Night are capitalized in verse 5 but not in any of the other verses in Genesis 1. I’m not sure if this might be some type of clue.

 

[BNR32FAN]

According to strong’s Genesis 1:5 is the only verse that the words Day and Night are capitalized. However there are 2 more verses with the Word Day capitalized but the Word Day is the first word in a sentence. Night also has one more verse in caps but also used as the first word in a sentence.

 

[KWCrazy]

Light was created on day one. It was set apart from the earth, which was without form and void (in a gaseous state). Then God divided the darkness from the light. Darkness cannot be created. It is the absence of light, created by blocking light. In other words, the earth solidified creating daylight and darkness. A single rotation of the earth created evening and morning; the first day.

On day four the sun moon and stars were created. The entity called light ceased to exist, which would suggest that the universe came from the entity called light. The Big Bang theory supports this, and suggests that the universe was formed more or less as it is, only smaller and more condensed. This follows no blast pattern conceivable, but it does follow the word of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Light was created on day one. It was set apart from the earth, which was without form and void (in a gaseous state). Then God divided the darkness from the light. Darkness cannot be created. It is the absence of light, created by blocking light. In other words, the earth solidified creating daylight and darkness. A single rotation of the earth created evening and morning; the first day.

On day four the sun moon and stars were created. The entity called light ceased to exist, which would suggest that the universe came from the entity called light. The Big Bang theory supports this, and suggests that the universe was formed more or less as it is, only smaller and more condensed. This follows no blast pattern conceivable, but it does follow the word of God.

Thanks this makes a lot of sense.

 

[Halbhh]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day. I will be going over this on Saturday with my family for bible study and I’ve asked 2 pastors from my church who also didn’t have an answer. So I’m hoping I can get some help on this before then. I’ve checked the Hebrew words for Day, Night, light, and darkness and I don’t see any possibility of alternative meanings for these words. I noticed that the words Day and Night are capitalized in verse 5 but not in any of the other verses in Genesis 1. I’m not sure if this might be some type of clue.

The day night cycle starts on day 1 (in verses 3-5, which occur after verse 1-2 of course; verse 1-2 are about the time before that light, when the universe was created, and Earth was created, but not yet having land separated from the water, thus without form, and perhaps even with clouds and mist in the air right down to the surface of the water we might think, thus without form and void of any distinct features) -- the entire, normal day night cycle is there in verses 3-5, just like on day 4, 5, 6 -- including evening: "5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." --

-- so therefore we can consider whether this full cycle day/evening/night means the earth must be rotating and the light must be of our sun. This fits the text perfectly as you'll see below.

Now, as a vision, this would be a vision all given entirely from the point of view of being on/near the surface of Earth (not out in space like a modern video, nothing like any kind of modern video of astronomy with big zooms out to space, etc.).

So the sun, moon and stars are only visible on an unclouded day of course, then, from the perspective of being on/near the surface. On a clouded day, you'd experience the full day/night cycle but not see the sun, moon or stars...until some clear day without overcast.

(Interestingly this corresponds to exactly what models of early Earth weather expect -- cloudiness 24/7/365 for much of the Earth's early history!)

God did provide some narration so that Moses would have a partial understanding, since what he was seeing would make no sense at all otherwise. The narration is telling Moses that God created all that is somehow, and that nature (His created nature, His work) does work, is good, is able to bring forth life: "Let the Earth bring forth ____", and that "and God saw that it was very good" which we can understand to mean very good for living for us, a very pleasant Earth to live on!


-----------
by the way, the mysterious verse 7 actually makes sense from the point of view of modern theory of how a planet forms by accretion and being hot when young, so that it takes time to cool down enough for the oceans to remain liquid. Before that though, the waters are boiling and a camera would record a swirling of water everywhere -- boiling and raining at the same time (in the hot young earth) so that there is no distinct surface. Only after cooling is there finally a distinct surface, and 'expanse' (sky becoming visible for the first time) between the water below (a liquid ocean), and above, the heavy and probably constantly misty or raining atmosphere. Now there is a clear surface for the first time, and thus also a clear above, the sky, day 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The day night cycle starts on day 1 -- the entire, normal day night cycle, including evening: "5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." --

-- so therefore we can consider whether this full cycle normal day means the earth must be rotating and the light must be of our sun.

Now, as a vision, this would be a vision all given entirely from the point of view of being on the surface of Earth (not out in space like a modern video, nothing like any kind of modern video of astronomy with big zooms out to space, etc.).

So the sun, moon and stars are only visible on an unclouded day of course, then, from the perspective of being on the surface. On a clouded day, you'd experience the full day/night cycle but not see the sun, moon or stars...until some clear day without overcast.

(Interestingly this corresponds to exactly what models of early Earth weather expect -- cloudiness 24/7/365 for much of the Earth's early history!)

God did provide some narration so that Moses would have a partial understanding, since what he was seeing would make no sense at all otherwise. The narration is telling Moses that God created all that is somehow, and that nature works: "Let the Earth bring forth ____", and that "and it was very good" which we can understand to mean very good for living for us, a very pleasant Earth to live on!

Yeah life was great until women came along!! Just kidding lol

 

[Radagast]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day.

You and everybody else. Either the passage is not meant to be interpreted literally, or the "light" might represent angels, or it was a special kind of light.

 

[Micah888]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day.

It is generally called "cosmic light".

 

[mark kennedy]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day. I will be going over this on Saturday with my family for bible study and I’ve asked 2 pastors from my church who also didn’t have an answer. So I’m hoping I can get some help on this before then. I’ve checked the Hebrew words for Day, Night, light, and darkness and I don’t see any possibility of alternative meanings for these words. I noticed that the words Day and Night are capitalized in verse 5 but not in any of the other verses in Genesis 1. I’m not sure if this might be some type of clue.

If you notice on day four the word created isn't used, it's 'made' and 'set', there is a reason for that. There are three words used for God's work in creation in Genesis 1:

'created' ('bara' H1254) a very precise term used only of God.
Create ‘bara’ (H1254) - 'This verb has profound theological significance, since it has only God as it’s subject. Only God can create in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses the idea of creation out of nothing...(Vines Expository Dictionary)​

It is used once to describe the creation of the universe (Gen 1:1), then again to describe the creation of life (Gen 1:21). Finally, in the closing verses, it is used three times for the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27). The word translated, 'made' (asah 6213) , has a much broader range of meaning and is used to speak of the creation of the 'firmament' (Gen 1:7), the sun, moon and stars (Gen 1:16), procreation where offspring are made 'after his/their kind' (Gen 1:25) and as a general reference to creation in it's vast array (Gen 1:31).

Made ‘asah’(H6213) "A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application" (Gen 1:7, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:25, Gen 1:31, Isa. 41:20, 43:7, 45:7, 12, Amos 4:13). (Strong’s Dictionary). "The verb, which occurs over 2600 times in the Old Testament, is used as a synonym for “create” only about 60 times…only when asah is parallel to bara…can we be sure that it implies creation." (Vine 52).
​

Then there is a third term when God 'set' (nathan H2414), the lights of the sun, moon and stars so that their light is reqularly visible from the surface of the earth. In this way the narrative shifts from the very precise word for 'created' to the more general 'made', and then the much broader use of 'set'.

Set (nathan H5414) A primitive root; to give, used with greatest latitude of application (Gen 1:17, Gen 9:13, Gen 18:8, Gen 30:40, Gen 41:41). Elsewhere translated ‘put’, ‘make’, ‘cause’, etc.
​

Here's what happened, the sun moon and stars were created before creation week even started. However, in the original creation the surface of the earth was covered in thick clouds and water. The process of creation, during creation week God separated the land from the sea and the clouds (firmament above) from the seas (firmament below). Basically something 'created' is brought into existence while something 'made' is God creating something new from something preexisting. God didn't create the sun, moon and stars on day four, God was working on the atmosphere and the structure of the earth so the light of the sun, moon and stars could reach the surface of the earth making life possible. God doesn't actually start creating life until verse 21. It looks something like this:

Day 1: God 'lets' the light in, thus creating the first day (Gen. 1:4).
Day 2: God creates the upper atmosphere, called the 'firmament' (Gen. 1:7).
Day 3: God separates the land from the seas and creates plant life (Gen. 1:10).
Day 4: God then, 'sets', the heavenly lights in the visible sky (Gen. 1:17).
Day 5: God creates the birds of the air and marine life (Gen. 1:21).
Day 6: Finally, God creates the beasts of the field and Man (Gen. 1:25).
The phrase, 'heaven and the earth', is a Hebrew expression meaning the universe. All we really get from this passage is that the cosmos and earth were created, 'in the beginning'
​

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

It is generally called "cosmic light".

It's a possibility that the first light was God's glory, called the Shekhina, the same glory that is reflected in nature revealing God's divine attributes and eternal nature (Rom. 1:18-21). The original creation was formless, void and covered in darkness and thick clouds. God breaks through that darkness before he starts creating life, bringing in light and separating the primordial mass, making the earth suitable for life.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

Yeah life was great until women came along!! Just kidding lol

Yea but it was not good that man be alone. Arguably, she came with some complications for Adam's life but it wasn't going to be as much fun basking in God's creation with no one to share it with.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Micah888]

It's a possibility that the first light was God's glory...

It's a possibility, but since God called it into existence (whereas His glory is eternal just like Him) it would appear it was a part of creation.

 

[mark kennedy]

It's a possibility, but since God called it into existence (whereas His glory is eternal just like Him) it would appear it was a part of creation.

That's really what I think, God just let a little of the light in before creation week began. But there is a possibility that the Shekinah was the original light when God said, 'let there be light'. I'm not entirely sure but it remains a possibility.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[KWCrazy]

Genesis is written from the position of the earth and it's entirely possible that the universe already existed. This could be one of God's creations; neither the first nor the last. God doesn't specifically tell us and it doesn't matter. He could as easily create the universe as we could type the sentence. What matters is that we understand He created our world in six days; that He created man on the sixth day; that He made woman from man; that sin and death came into the world because of one man, and that through the sacrifice of one man; Jesus; the world could be saved.

 

[icxn]

I’m having trouble trying to figure out what the light is that was created on the 1st day of creation since the sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day.

Find the symbolic meanings of sun, moon and stars and you will find the answer. The material world and its creation is a reflection of the spiritual one.

 

[Halbhh]

You and everybody else. Either the passage is not meant to be interpreted literally, or the "light" might represent angels, or it was a special kind of light.

Actually Genesis 1, which we know is true in some way, happens to be corresponding to the mainstream astrophysics theories (!) -- see post #5 above. I was very surprised to realize this a few years ago, as I had previous thought most of my life this was a symbolic or stylized vision, like the one Joseph interpreted for the pharaoh -- figurative but about reality, true -- until that moment of realization. I was so surprised.

Since that day of realization, I take it all literally. Theories about how the Earth formed align to Genesis chapter 1, several, such as how Earth was like a water world before the first land appears, among several other theories about other aspects.

 

[Halbhh]

It's a possibility that the first light was God's glory, called the Shekhina, the same glory that is reflected in nature revealing God's divine attributes and eternal nature (Rom. 1:18-21). The original creation was formless, void and covered in darkness and thick clouds. God breaks through that darkness before he starts creating life, bringing in light and separating the primordial mass, making the earth suitable for life.

Grace and peace,
Mark

While I think it was the sun, the star He chose for us, a star caused to be so perfect for us (unusually well suited among stars), while I think the light in verse 3 was the sun for several reasons, still this is a wonderful possibility you point to, and I certainly cannot say which happened. While it's possible to learn and see how mainstream astrophysics theories are fitting perfectly with Genesis 1, still it could indeed be the way you suggest instead.

Even further -- God could even have made everything look very old, on purpose, by His plan, in order that it not all be too easy to understand, because the purpose is for us to have faith, not merely understanding and merely observation. But faith instead, first. Either way -- young or old, fits this purpose.

We know that all the myriad ideas people have about details of creation not specified in Genesis 1 are only theories, and not key to faith. As Paul wrote in 1 Cor 13, we understand "in part". As Paul was telling us, we will only know "in part" until He comes.

 

[Halbhh]

Genesis is written from the position of the earth and it's entirely possible that the universe already existed. This could be one of God's creations; neither the first nor the last. God doesn't specifically tell us and it doesn't matter. He could as easily create the universe as we could type the sentence. What matters is that we understand He created our world in six days; that He created man on the sixth day; that He made woman from man; that sin and death came into the world because of one man, and that through the sacrifice of one man; Jesus; the world could be saved.

I agree fully with every sentence, and as long as we aren't asserting additional theories as facts, these simple clear sentences we already are agreeing on. It is good to be humble and remember we are not told whether or not or how much time passed during verse 1, so while I think it was something like 9 billion years, this isn't even important ultimately, but only helpful for a few here and there to understand they don't have to think one theory about verse 1 is the Truth with a capital T, and then be blocked from believing, but to know that we cannot be sure from the scripture about the time in verse 1, and that is on purpose, because God wants us to have faith, not mere knowledge. (I can't have faith that I have a car I own, because I can simply look and see it, simply knowledge.) Also, it's good to be aware God may have allowed much time to pass between individual days of creation. We are not told. So, this also is not a thing that should block any seeker from trying to find the one true God.

 

[mark kennedy]

Genesis is written from the position of the earth and it's entirely possible that the universe already existed. This could be one of God's creations; neither the first nor the last. God doesn't specifically tell us and it doesn't matter. He could as easily create the universe as we could type the sentence. What matters is that we understand He created our world in six days; that He created man on the sixth day; that He made woman from man; that sin and death came into the world because of one man, and that through the sacrifice of one man; Jesus; the world could be saved.

Yea I've often wondered where the angels came from. It is possible they came from someplace a lot like earth and they have already been through the whole redemption process.

 

[mark kennedy]

I agree fully with every sentence, and as long as we aren't asserting additional theories as facts, these simple clear sentences we already are agreeing on. It is good to be humble and remember we are not told whether or not or how much time passed during verse 1, so while I think it was something like 9 billion years, this isn't even important ultimately, but only helpful for a few here and there to understand they don't have to think one theory about verse 1 is the Truth with a capital T, and then be blocked from believing, but to know that we cannot be sure from the scripture about the time in verse 1, and that is on purpose, because God wants us to have faith, not mere knowledge. (I can't have faith that I have a car I own, because I can simply look and see it, simply knowledge.) Also, it's good to be aware God may have allowed much time to pass between individual days of creation. We are not told. So, this also is not a thing that should block any seeker from trying to find the one true God.

I've had people actually make these cosmological argument from the Big Bang. I just respond I believe in the Big Bang, God spoke and bang there it was. If you read a lot of the scientific literature, and unfortunately I have, you'll notice the time line is contiously being stretched as far back as they can get it. This makes the Darwinian gradualistic concept seem more reasonable. An old earth cosmology could make sense of radiometric dating if the minerals involved were very old thus making the fossils seem old.