I am extremely confused at the moment. I can't stop thinking about things... I keep thinking about how God created everything. If God created everything, God created our psychology too... that means everything that happens is meant to happen from the very beginning. Man was created to sin from God before man was even created. Everything is set-up. Even this thread post, it seems like it would have already been planned out for me to write this. Now what I don't understand is how God expects me to worship him after feeling like all we are are robotic humans. I feel like God doesn't want me to be myself... do what I feel in my heart I want to do... I feel like God created me to go to hell because I do not want to worship a God. I feel as though we are all humans, living out as God... So, is there really a heaven or hell? Why is it that every time I ask God to reveal himself to me, I never get any solid information? I thought God was all powerful. Why does God require faith? Why can't God show himself to me right this instant? I could very well believe that I am God right now, but in doing so, I have to live with the fear of me being wrong and going to hell... And then I feel like I should follow Jesus only because hell is driving me to love and worship him like a fake puppet. Could anyone please explain Jesus to me a little better, and why I should accept and worship Him as my almighty Lord and Master? Why should He be considered so special if I have no reliable proof that He even exists to begin with? When I could instead just live my life seeing myself and everyone else as God living out as Humans. HELP!?
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Need help understanding Jesus
- Thread starter GodSeeker1
- Start date
you and me both buddy.
what i say is just don't ask questions. life is alot easier when you don't ask questions.
what i say is just don't ask questions. life is alot easier when you don't ask questions.
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C
Cody2
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God is not a Calvinist. Man has free will and there are times in the Bible when man's prayer made God change his mind. You have the choice to trust Jesus Christ alone for salvation or deny Him and burn in Hell when you die. God has revealed himself by this universe, His word(KJV) and sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins.
Things you need to know...
You are a sinner and you need your sin forgiven or you will go to Hell.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" KJV
You cannot work your way to Heaven, it is by Faith alone...
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." KJV
To be saved, you must trust Jesus Christ alone. He was God in the flesh, lived a sinless life, bore the sins of the world on the Cross, was buried and rose again on the third day by the power of God.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." KJV
Things you need to know...
You are a sinner and you need your sin forgiven or you will go to Hell.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" KJV
You cannot work your way to Heaven, it is by Faith alone...
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." KJV
To be saved, you must trust Jesus Christ alone. He was God in the flesh, lived a sinless life, bore the sins of the world on the Cross, was buried and rose again on the third day by the power of God.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." KJV
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Christianity has a logical explanation for everything, just compare the first question:[/font]
Why were we created?
A God that has been around forever would have the best of the best by all standards. Of all God’s attributes the best “Love” would be the greatest, controlling all other attributes (Love is the most power force in all universes). God which is described as Love would be compelled by His Love to make beings that could Love like He Loves. Unfortunately, Godly type Love cannot be directly programmed into the being (instinctive) for that love would be a robotic type of love. If God forces the Love on the being (take it or I torture you) that would not be Loving on God’s part and again would not be Godly type Love. God has to allow (give up some of his power) beings to have free will and choose (it must be a real choice and not forced) Love over some likely alternative (in our case it is the perceived pleasures of sin for a season).
We have the earthly objective (that can only be done on earth) of obtaining Godly type Love so we can Love God and others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy. Love is defined by all Christ said and did (you can also look at 1 Cor. 13 and 1 John 4.) Obtaining Love is accepting it as a free undeserving and unconditional gift (Charity). Man due to survival instincts does not like to accept charity especially from a Giver that paid a huge price. The easiest way to accept it is to accept God’s forgiveness (…he that is forgiven much will Love much…
God’s objective is the most unselfish objective (an attribute of Godly Love) in that God is doing all He can to help people (those willing to accept His help since they have free will) to fulfill their objective. That “all” includes allowing Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kinds, some unwilling individuals to go to hell, and even sinning.
Christ shows us what Love really is, so we know if we want it or not and His going to the cross shows us that God/Christ Loves us.
Why were we created?
A God that has been around forever would have the best of the best by all standards. Of all God’s attributes the best “Love” would be the greatest, controlling all other attributes (Love is the most power force in all universes). God which is described as Love would be compelled by His Love to make beings that could Love like He Loves. Unfortunately, Godly type Love cannot be directly programmed into the being (instinctive) for that love would be a robotic type of love. If God forces the Love on the being (take it or I torture you) that would not be Loving on God’s part and again would not be Godly type Love. God has to allow (give up some of his power) beings to have free will and choose (it must be a real choice and not forced) Love over some likely alternative (in our case it is the perceived pleasures of sin for a season).
We have the earthly objective (that can only be done on earth) of obtaining Godly type Love so we can Love God and others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy. Love is defined by all Christ said and did (you can also look at 1 Cor. 13 and 1 John 4.) Obtaining Love is accepting it as a free undeserving and unconditional gift (Charity). Man due to survival instincts does not like to accept charity especially from a Giver that paid a huge price. The easiest way to accept it is to accept God’s forgiveness (…he that is forgiven much will Love much…
God’s objective is the most unselfish objective (an attribute of Godly Love) in that God is doing all He can to help people (those willing to accept His help since they have free will) to fulfill their objective. That “all” includes allowing Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kinds, some unwilling individuals to go to hell, and even sinning.
Christ shows us what Love really is, so we know if we want it or not and His going to the cross shows us that God/Christ Loves us.
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razeontherock
Well-Known Member
Nope. I haven't read through the other responses, but if you haven't gotten anything you understand, please repeat this one. It's a BIGGIE! And "not asking questions" will never result in knowing Jesus, let alone understanding Him.
The simple shape of the cross actually take scare of all this, but you have a lot of things to sort through first. In the strongest of possible terms, I encourage you to do so before it's too late. I have a good handle on this stuff, and I'm willing to help. What I say might be Greek to you while someone else is clear as a bell, or vice versa. Go with who you can relate to, just make sure your objective is to be able to relate to Jesus!
If you really feel that way, it's probably true for you, but don't project that onto me. LOTS OF CONFUSION WILL DISAPPEAR WHEN YOU CUT THAT OUT. And yes, there really is a hell to shun, and G-d's Kingdom to reach out and take in this life; by force, if necessary. You might let that sink in a bit.
Confusion, wavering Faith, not seeking Him with a whole heart. Any one of those WILL produce the results you describe. Those are enemies - send them to hell! It's much better than letting them take you there with you. I know, I've seen it. That really is your choice, and when you get the conviction of those facts and can make obedience a tad easier.
Also I notice you complain about worship. First of all, obedience is better than sacrifice, second of all you have no idea what worship is, yet. I don't mean to be offensive, but it shows. One step at a time ...
You may think you'd like that, but in your current state even a tiny glimpse would annihilate you pronto. One step at a time ...
Again, in the strongest terms possible, I suggest maintaining your focus on this one last 1/2 of this quote. This really reveals quite a bit about your heart, and honestly no human will be able to give you everything you need on this one. We can help you take steps closer to understanding this, but G-d actually retains the ability to enlighten us about certain things, because He LIKES it! Yes, He enjoys our company. Look at it this way:
if you were a Father, would you want your own children opening their Christmas presents that you worked for and wanted them to have w/o you there, with somebody else instead? He loves you more than any of us can comprehend. That's what Eternal Life is for ...
I know this will make no sense to you right now, but just take it in:
Psa 29:2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness."
Also, in the Bible the color blue denotes Holiness. Do you like blue? Where do we see the most blue in nature?
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GodSeeker1,
All of your questions are legitimate. Most Christians had similar thoughts at some point before they received salvation.
1. While it may appear that God meant for us to write these posts, the truth is that God meant for us to still be living in the Garden of Eden; perfect and without sin. God gave man a free will, and man chose to sin.
2. God does want you to be yourself. Every attribute you have that is good comes from him. He loves his children more than any parent can love a child. He wants you and me to be healthy, happy, and safe. As our Father, He knows what is best for us and gives us the ground rules. We do the same for our own children when we tell them to not touch a burning stove or talk to strangers. It is for their good. He only asks us to do that which will keep us from harm and will keep us close to him.
3. You were not meant for Hell. Hell was created for Satan and his angels. Man will only go there if he chooses. God asks one thing from us, and it will keep us from going to Hell; believe on his Son, Jesus as the Christ.
4. So, is there really a heaven or hell? Yes.
5. God will reveal himself to you the instant you choose to believe. Faith is required because of the sacrifice of his Son. He sent his son, Jesus to die once, and that one time paid for all our sin; past, present, and future.
6. Fearing hell is where most of us start. If my child believes what I tell him because he fears punishment, it's a start; though it isn't what I truly want. God doesn't want you to serve him out of fear, but He'll take that as a first step; then reveal to you, what a loving and patient Father he really is.
7. God placed within each of us the knowledge that He is real even before we come to hear of him. Then, He loved us so much that He did what no parent can do and allowed his sinless Son to take the punishment for us so that the debt for our sin was paid in full.
Let me emphasize; God will reveal himself to you the instant you choose to believe on his dear Son, ask him to forgive you for your sins, and then ask Jesus to come into your heart and wash you clean and make you new again. Make the decision that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life and tell him so. After that, no one and nothing can ever tear you from the Father's hand. And He will reveal himself. Trust Him first, and He will meet you there.
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Gods creation is evidence alone. The bible says we are without excuse just with creation, Rom 1:20.
Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
I suggest you research the credibility of the bible concerning overwhelming evidence which is very high even though it’s a spiritual decision first.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/
Do you have the holy spirit? He will give you the power to live a christian life. Human effort alone can't do this. Pray and you will get it.
Take one day at a time and get some inspirational friends that love God by their actions. Read the bible and pray daily. Get involved in a serious church. Its a life long lifestyle and you will know God more and more. True faith is demonstrated by actions. Feel free to email me.
1) Man was created to sin from God before man was even created. Adam was created perfect -but freewill caused this fallen world as they disobeyed God.
2) Everything is set-up. To a degree but God does not over ride free will. In fact, God does all he can without over riding free will- Acts 17:26-27.
3)Now what I don't understand is how God expects me to worship him after feeling like all we are is robotic humans. We aren’t robots.
4) So, is there really a heaven or hell? Yes.
5) Why is it that every time I ask God to reveal
himself to me, I never get any solid information? You got it.
6) I thought God was all powerful. He is-If God showed himself in his full glory you would be dead. That is why Moses just saw his back.
7)Why does God require faith? God wants your love and faith is a part of this.
Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
I suggest you research the credibility of the bible concerning overwhelming evidence which is very high even though it’s a spiritual decision first.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/
Do you have the holy spirit? He will give you the power to live a christian life. Human effort alone can't do this. Pray and you will get it.
Take one day at a time and get some inspirational friends that love God by their actions. Read the bible and pray daily. Get involved in a serious church. Its a life long lifestyle and you will know God more and more. True faith is demonstrated by actions. Feel free to email me.
1) Man was created to sin from God before man was even created. Adam was created perfect -but freewill caused this fallen world as they disobeyed God.
2) Everything is set-up. To a degree but God does not over ride free will. In fact, God does all he can without over riding free will- Acts 17:26-27.
3)Now what I don't understand is how God expects me to worship him after feeling like all we are is robotic humans. We aren’t robots.
4) So, is there really a heaven or hell? Yes.
5) Why is it that every time I ask God to reveal
himself to me, I never get any solid information? You got it.
6) I thought God was all powerful. He is-If God showed himself in his full glory you would be dead. That is why Moses just saw his back.
7)Why does God require faith? God wants your love and faith is a part of this.
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More info below:
Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
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LadyDeflora
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a lot of issues are the same i had, ultimately you have to figure out how understanding works for you.
mine is rather, unorhtodox but i can understand how a God who created such glorious creatures that keep failing him would eventually have to research it himslf. enter "His" flesh...
having finally understood why such glorious creations can keep falling short of his expectation having understood the difficulties flesh present He gave up his flesh as a demonstration He leaves us to it and hope that the proof of His love is enough for us to choose to rule our flesh doing him glory, rather than letting it rule us for our own.
i believe everyone hears God, you just have to figure out how he speaks to you, my biggest communication issue are tattoos, but that's when i get the spontaneous inspiration to seek out the history and how it would actually apply to someone who lives for Him rather than like those who organized Him expect others to.
i'm not too popular in most christian circles.
mine is rather, unorhtodox but i can understand how a God who created such glorious creatures that keep failing him would eventually have to research it himslf. enter "His" flesh...
having finally understood why such glorious creations can keep falling short of his expectation having understood the difficulties flesh present He gave up his flesh as a demonstration He leaves us to it and hope that the proof of His love is enough for us to choose to rule our flesh doing him glory, rather than letting it rule us for our own.
i believe everyone hears God, you just have to figure out how he speaks to you, my biggest communication issue are tattoos, but that's when i get the spontaneous inspiration to seek out the history and how it would actually apply to someone who lives for Him rather than like those who organized Him expect others to.
i'm not too popular in most christian circles.
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Godseeker1, you sound like someone who is sincerely seeking honest answers to your dilemna of whether or not to believe in God and become a Christian. For that I applaud you. Let me assure you that God does not want us to "check our brains at the door" when we try to come to Him and understand. Never be afraid to ask questions. I've always said that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. None of us Christians were born followers of Jesus, we were all born in original sin and were enemies of God, if you will. We all had to make our journey home to Him, along our own paths. But I can also assure you that God will reveal Himself to you, if you keep seeking Him. These response posts by fellow Christians here are a way that God is revealing Himself to you, and is calling you to be one of His children. That being said, let me now try to address, specifically, some of the points you brought up.
First, let me say that we do have free will. However God, who is outside of time and space, can see everything, the past, present, and future. Thus, He could know, before the foundation of the earth, that you were going to write this thread exactly when you did, without violating your free will. That is also how He is able to know and reveal to us, beforehand, His prophesies and how they will be fulfilled. The reason He gave us free will is, as others have said before me, because He loves us so much that He does not wish to force His will upon us, but wants us to come to Him and love Him freely. Without this freedom, we would be, as you mentioned in your post, mere puppets.
With free will, we can choose to love and follow God. However we can also choose to remain in our sins, continuing to serve ouselves and being slaves to evil. This is the other side of the coin, if you will, to free will. It is the reason that God "allows" so much evil in the world. If God did not allow this evil, then free will really wouldn't be free will, if you think about it. God would stop every bad decision we made, that was contrary to Him, Who is goodness itself. Thus He would become a puppetmaster, with us on His strings. We were made in His image, and are given the choice to choose Him or ourselves, but there are consequences either way. To choose God leads to heaven, but it also entails sacrifice and suffering for God's sake and the sake of the kingdom of heaven. To choose evil and one's own will leads to hell, but it can be quite alluring with all the "seemingly" great things the world has to offer. This leads us to another important point. God has made entry into heaven difficult, as the Bible says:
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
Matthew 7:14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.
This shows us that being a follower of Jesus is not going to be easy, but it is worth it in the long run. We either suffer here, for a little while, or we suffer later, in hell, for eternity. Plus, by suffering here we can help reunite God with others and also build up treasures for ourselves in heaven (which should never be our primary focus but it does help to motivate us at times).
Also, the fact that Christianity is a hard road at times shows us that God really wants to see where we stand. If it was easy, especially if it was easier than being selfish, then everyone would do it. The fact that it is difficult makes it important and special when we actually do choose God over ourselves and sin. We are sacrificing for God's sake and for others out of love for God, and that shows that we are truly followers of Christ.
Second, God wants you to be yourself, in certain areas, but He also wants you to change. Let me explain. He created you the way you are for His good purpose and pleasure. No one in the kingdom of God can do exactly what He created you to do. You're not just some number along the history of humanity's existence, you're a very special and unique creation of the Lord Almighty. He really did "break the mold" when He made you, just as He did with all of us. And He wants your cooperation in furthering His kingdom and His will here on earth. God can do anything, because He is God, but He still wants to include you in His plans. He wants you to be "His hands and feet" while you're here on earth. That's why we are still left here on earth after we become Christians, because we still have work to do for His sake.
That being said, He does want you to change from your state of being born into origianl sin. Our original parents, Adam and Eve, were responsible for this when they disobeyed God and ate of the apple in the Garden of Eden. From then on, all of mankind was born into original sin and was destined for hell. However, God, out of His infinite love for us, came up with a way for mankind to be redeemed from the punishment of hell. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross, taking all of our sins upon Himself. We cannot save ourselves, we need God's unmerited grace and favor in order to be saved from the fires of hell. This is where God wants you to change, for your own good. We can all see how evil the world is, as well as the individuals in it. There is sin everywhere and in everyone, even in ourselves, if we are honest about it. Seeing this, we can understand why Christ's death on the cross was the only way mankind could be redeemed. However, going back to free will, it is still left up to us whether or not we accept God's forgiveness and grace. God will not force it on anyone, we have to choose to accept it or reject it.
(Continued in next post)
First, let me say that we do have free will. However God, who is outside of time and space, can see everything, the past, present, and future. Thus, He could know, before the foundation of the earth, that you were going to write this thread exactly when you did, without violating your free will. That is also how He is able to know and reveal to us, beforehand, His prophesies and how they will be fulfilled. The reason He gave us free will is, as others have said before me, because He loves us so much that He does not wish to force His will upon us, but wants us to come to Him and love Him freely. Without this freedom, we would be, as you mentioned in your post, mere puppets.
With free will, we can choose to love and follow God. However we can also choose to remain in our sins, continuing to serve ouselves and being slaves to evil. This is the other side of the coin, if you will, to free will. It is the reason that God "allows" so much evil in the world. If God did not allow this evil, then free will really wouldn't be free will, if you think about it. God would stop every bad decision we made, that was contrary to Him, Who is goodness itself. Thus He would become a puppetmaster, with us on His strings. We were made in His image, and are given the choice to choose Him or ourselves, but there are consequences either way. To choose God leads to heaven, but it also entails sacrifice and suffering for God's sake and the sake of the kingdom of heaven. To choose evil and one's own will leads to hell, but it can be quite alluring with all the "seemingly" great things the world has to offer. This leads us to another important point. God has made entry into heaven difficult, as the Bible says:
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.
Matthew 7:14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.
This shows us that being a follower of Jesus is not going to be easy, but it is worth it in the long run. We either suffer here, for a little while, or we suffer later, in hell, for eternity. Plus, by suffering here we can help reunite God with others and also build up treasures for ourselves in heaven (which should never be our primary focus but it does help to motivate us at times).
Also, the fact that Christianity is a hard road at times shows us that God really wants to see where we stand. If it was easy, especially if it was easier than being selfish, then everyone would do it. The fact that it is difficult makes it important and special when we actually do choose God over ourselves and sin. We are sacrificing for God's sake and for others out of love for God, and that shows that we are truly followers of Christ.
Second, God wants you to be yourself, in certain areas, but He also wants you to change. Let me explain. He created you the way you are for His good purpose and pleasure. No one in the kingdom of God can do exactly what He created you to do. You're not just some number along the history of humanity's existence, you're a very special and unique creation of the Lord Almighty. He really did "break the mold" when He made you, just as He did with all of us. And He wants your cooperation in furthering His kingdom and His will here on earth. God can do anything, because He is God, but He still wants to include you in His plans. He wants you to be "His hands and feet" while you're here on earth. That's why we are still left here on earth after we become Christians, because we still have work to do for His sake.
That being said, He does want you to change from your state of being born into origianl sin. Our original parents, Adam and Eve, were responsible for this when they disobeyed God and ate of the apple in the Garden of Eden. From then on, all of mankind was born into original sin and was destined for hell. However, God, out of His infinite love for us, came up with a way for mankind to be redeemed from the punishment of hell. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross, taking all of our sins upon Himself. We cannot save ourselves, we need God's unmerited grace and favor in order to be saved from the fires of hell. This is where God wants you to change, for your own good. We can all see how evil the world is, as well as the individuals in it. There is sin everywhere and in everyone, even in ourselves, if we are honest about it. Seeing this, we can understand why Christ's death on the cross was the only way mankind could be redeemed. However, going back to free will, it is still left up to us whether or not we accept God's forgiveness and grace. God will not force it on anyone, we have to choose to accept it or reject it.
(Continued in next post)
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(Continued from previous post)
Third, regarding your statement of pseudo-messianism (where man glorifies himself instead of his Messiah come in the flesh) in which you said that you could very well believe that you are God and others are God also:
I'm assuming that you are saying that you could believe that man is the highest level of intelligent life in the universe and that there is no higher power (as we cannot all be God because we did not create everything, nor have we existed from before time began). Along those lines, I would ask you then, how did the universe and life itself begin? If you believe in the big bang theory, who made the "bang" happen, and where did that tiny amount of matter come from? If it existed for all eternity past (which makes the original speck of matter God, in a way), then wouldn't the bang have to have happened an infinite amount of time before it did if there was no external force (i.e. God) to make it happen? In other words, if that tiny speck, which contained all the known universe existed for an infinite amount of time in the past, and if there was nothing outside of that speck, then why did the big bang happen when it did, and not before it did (actually why not an infinite amount of time before it did, since there was supposedly no God to impact it)? The only way to rationally explain the big bang theory is by believing an outside force, that is God, created all the material in the universe (as matter does not come into existance out of nothing, according to the laws of the universe) and then God caused the bang to happen (as there has to be an outside force in order for this to happen at a specific time), resulting in the universe being as it is today. The probability for the universe coming into existance as it did, and for the complexity of human existance to come into existance as well, is so mathematically improbable that if it was in regards to anything but creation and human existance, it would be considered impossible, for all intensive purposes, without there being a God directly interacting in these processes.
Fourth, the reason that you need to accept Jesus as God and become a Christian is because He really is God and you can end up in hell if you do not believe this. Truth is truth, whether people admit to it or not. Either Jesus is God and Christianity is right, or He is not and it is wrong. No one can disprove that Jesus is God or that Christianity is right, they can only guess that it is wrong. There is no way for them to know for certain. However, we Christians know, for certain, that Jesus is God and that Christianity is right because we've found Jesus (or I should say He found us) and we've spoken with Him through prayer, and interacted with Him through worship and by the ways He intercedes in our everyday lives. He has revealed Himself to us, as the one true God, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit who comprise the Holy Trinity. This is how we can be certain that we are on the right road, the only road, that leads to heaven.
Let me try to explain this point in greater detail. If I said to you that there is a man in China named John Smith, you cannot disprove this statement. You can guess that he does not exist, but you cannot know for certain. You can say, well I've never met him, or I haven't found him yet, but you can't prove his non-existence. However, I can know for certain that he does exist by finding him and by interacting with him. It is the same with God. We Christians know that Jesus is God and that He exists because He has found us and we have found Him, because we have interacted with Him in our lives, and because He has revealed the truth about Himself to us.
You too can know for certain that Jesus is God. You cannnot prove it to someone else, because that is their decision to make. You can only point others towards the Lord, you cannot force them to accept Him. However, you can know for certain that Jesus is God, that He is your God, if you simply open your heart to the Lord. All that you have to do is sincerely seek after God, and be open to His response, and you can have that assurance and become one of His followers. You must fully accept Him and His teachings though, that is the key.
God loves working through and with people. So, by you reading this now, Jesus is trying to tell you that He is God and that He wants to be your God. I am nothing compared to God, nor are any of the other Christian posters here on this thread. God is just using us as His hands and feet to communicate His unmeasureable love that He has for you. He wants you to know how much He cares about you and how He wants you to be with Him, forever in heaven. All that he asks from you, right now, is a simple "yes" to the choice of whether or not you'll let Him be your God.
It's the most important choice you'll ever make.
I hope that helps.
May God bless you and Mary keep you in her prayers always.
YinandYang
Third, regarding your statement of pseudo-messianism (where man glorifies himself instead of his Messiah come in the flesh) in which you said that you could very well believe that you are God and others are God also:
I'm assuming that you are saying that you could believe that man is the highest level of intelligent life in the universe and that there is no higher power (as we cannot all be God because we did not create everything, nor have we existed from before time began). Along those lines, I would ask you then, how did the universe and life itself begin? If you believe in the big bang theory, who made the "bang" happen, and where did that tiny amount of matter come from? If it existed for all eternity past (which makes the original speck of matter God, in a way), then wouldn't the bang have to have happened an infinite amount of time before it did if there was no external force (i.e. God) to make it happen? In other words, if that tiny speck, which contained all the known universe existed for an infinite amount of time in the past, and if there was nothing outside of that speck, then why did the big bang happen when it did, and not before it did (actually why not an infinite amount of time before it did, since there was supposedly no God to impact it)? The only way to rationally explain the big bang theory is by believing an outside force, that is God, created all the material in the universe (as matter does not come into existance out of nothing, according to the laws of the universe) and then God caused the bang to happen (as there has to be an outside force in order for this to happen at a specific time), resulting in the universe being as it is today. The probability for the universe coming into existance as it did, and for the complexity of human existance to come into existance as well, is so mathematically improbable that if it was in regards to anything but creation and human existance, it would be considered impossible, for all intensive purposes, without there being a God directly interacting in these processes.
Fourth, the reason that you need to accept Jesus as God and become a Christian is because He really is God and you can end up in hell if you do not believe this. Truth is truth, whether people admit to it or not. Either Jesus is God and Christianity is right, or He is not and it is wrong. No one can disprove that Jesus is God or that Christianity is right, they can only guess that it is wrong. There is no way for them to know for certain. However, we Christians know, for certain, that Jesus is God and that Christianity is right because we've found Jesus (or I should say He found us) and we've spoken with Him through prayer, and interacted with Him through worship and by the ways He intercedes in our everyday lives. He has revealed Himself to us, as the one true God, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit who comprise the Holy Trinity. This is how we can be certain that we are on the right road, the only road, that leads to heaven.
Let me try to explain this point in greater detail. If I said to you that there is a man in China named John Smith, you cannot disprove this statement. You can guess that he does not exist, but you cannot know for certain. You can say, well I've never met him, or I haven't found him yet, but you can't prove his non-existence. However, I can know for certain that he does exist by finding him and by interacting with him. It is the same with God. We Christians know that Jesus is God and that He exists because He has found us and we have found Him, because we have interacted with Him in our lives, and because He has revealed the truth about Himself to us.
You too can know for certain that Jesus is God. You cannnot prove it to someone else, because that is their decision to make. You can only point others towards the Lord, you cannot force them to accept Him. However, you can know for certain that Jesus is God, that He is your God, if you simply open your heart to the Lord. All that you have to do is sincerely seek after God, and be open to His response, and you can have that assurance and become one of His followers. You must fully accept Him and His teachings though, that is the key.
God loves working through and with people. So, by you reading this now, Jesus is trying to tell you that He is God and that He wants to be your God. I am nothing compared to God, nor are any of the other Christian posters here on this thread. God is just using us as His hands and feet to communicate His unmeasureable love that He has for you. He wants you to know how much He cares about you and how He wants you to be with Him, forever in heaven. All that he asks from you, right now, is a simple "yes" to the choice of whether or not you'll let Him be your God.
It's the most important choice you'll ever make.
I hope that helps.
May God bless you and Mary keep you in her prayers always.
YinandYang
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- Oct 21, 2009
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Godseeker, I think you are a serial poster. I've seen this one three times now in the past 6 mo. lol I suppose
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oi_antz
Opposed to Untruth.
John 15:26-27
26"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. 27And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Jesus says this as though we were already alive in Him since the beginning of time. This forms a foundation for me to believe that our eternal soul dwells with God in heaven even while our mind is bonded to the body for our short time.
These ideas are not coming from God, your faith is being tested to see whether you are truly honest with yourself when you listen to your heart. Hang on to your conscience at all costs, disregard what higher dogma tells you if it conflicts with what you know to be true. There are many lies which will tell you God doesn't give us our rights, it is wise not to trust every thought you get but scrutinize it according to the one basic principle: God is good, He only wants the best for you and me, and if the best thing He can do for you is give your free will then you know that He won't interfere with whatever decisions you might make.
There is eternal life and physical life. When we have the body we are preoccupied with the physical life. When the body is gone all is left is the eternal life. Hell is a place as far away from God as possible, while heaven is the place where we can worship Him in His presence. Some people are not capable of beholding the holiness of God, these people are not capable of entering heaven because their sinful soul would be obliterated by God's majesty. Sin and holiness cannot co-exist, it is one or the other. If you die being a sinner then you've committed yourself to roam outside the gates of heaven.
You are expecting the wrong thing from Him, you are looking for a miraculous sign, IOW you are trying to force God to comply to your rules. God is spiritual because someone took His body out of our garden didn't we? So whatever sign you are looking for, if you're expecting the bed to shake or some booming voice from the sky you're barking up the wrong tree. You should be trying to hear the voice of your heart. Confront the voice in your mind and if it doesn't seem like God's voice it is either your ego, an angel or the devil. The one way we can learn to hear God's voice is to get to know His personality by trusting what your heart says when you read the Bible.
Because you are a sinner and if you were to behold God in His glory you would perish. This is why the earth killed Jesus, they couldn't behold His glory, they were so full of hate that they killed the one person who did His best to tell the truth about what God had revealed to Him.
Yes, this is the problem the human has, it tries to measure God according to it's own perception of good and evil. Consider what "self idolisation" means in context of worshiping a false God. If you think you are God then you are worshiping yourself. Once you figure out how to worship Jesus instead then you will learn all the truths about heaven. This is what Jesus says to us:
Revelation 2
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
This overcoming He refers to is the overcoming of the enemy. If you can overcome the enemy then you are given the right to eat of the tree of life - this is the forbidden tree which once upon a time the human was forbidden from eating.
You've been dwelling on some pretty random thoughts and I think you've been deceived by that self-idolization defect. Have a think about the implications of worshiping yourself over God and once you can accept that you aren't God but you truly want to honor God with all your heart, then you'll be capable of approaching Jesus and humbly asking for Him to deliver you from the hands of the enemy that you can eat of the tree of life in paradise.
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oi_antz
Opposed to Untruth.
That last sentence needs paraphrasing:
Since we are born in debt to sin, we are susceptible to choosing evil over good. The master of the force of good is God (the holy spirit revealed to us through godly, human or angelic influence). The master of the force of evil is Satan. The war that is happening is between God and Satan who are both interested in the outcome of human society. Basically as a human we are presented the opportunity to pick a side because this war involves everyone and it does matter. So just be honest with yourself because there is one thing you can count on: that you do know how to distinguish good from evil, and that is how you will confront the enemy when you are ready to accept Jesus' atonement.
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oi_antz
Opposed to Untruth.
I have to answer this better, I really feel my previous answer might mislead you, here goes:
Due to the fact that Jesus lives in heaven now, we don't have a physical manifestation of God living in our midst. He is still here for us though, by spirit. The holy spirit exists everywhere in creation, this is how Jesus was able to use His powers to calm the wind and rain that time, and it is how we can connect with God in any time and place. The key to connecting with God is to regard Him with sufficient honor that He is comfortable to trust you. Usually this trust relationship will begin with your pledge to trust Him completely with your own life, it is just a conclusion you will come to one day and you will be ready to open your heart to Jesus.
So yes Jesus is there to take your hand when you reach out, and He will lift you up to God that you will always know God for real (as I and many other Christians will testify we do know God personally), however not every person requires nor wishes to know God personally and it's a choice we are entitled to make. Jesus said He came to heal the sick and lame, give sight to the blind etc etc.
This whole process of knowing God isn't just a fairy tale, you do have to see it for what it is. There is a real danger that if you keep turning down Jesus' message you are getting further from God - actually walking in the opposite direction. This means your soul is dying. If you know what I mean by this it is a good idea to take a good look at whether you have grudges against God and seek specific help to get your head around God's point of view, because if you hold a grudge to God then you're physically pushing Him away, and you could wind up being quite hurt. God wants you to know His love, so keep searching on that premise and you'll soon find the answers you need.
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