Need help in my spirit..

[Joy]

Great wisdom brother you and Jim are so wise.

This pastor sounds like a spiritual abuser, I'd stay well away.

Karen

 

[Honibee]

Hi IvanOng- So glad to have you as a part of the family of God! Being so new in the faith, I wonder if you've had a time of discipleship- a time of learning who you are in Christ, the basics of your new faith? It would be very helpful if you could do this. I suggest you read the gospel of John then the book of Romans. When you see who you are in Him, based on God's Word, it will bring a sincere and profound gratitude to Jesus for all He's done. Jesus taught us the work of the Holy Spirit is to focus on Him (Jesus). The Holy Spirit reminds us of all Jesus said and the promises He's given. Ask the Holy spirit to focus your heart on Jesus- not on manifestations.

Blessings in Him
~H

 

[Dee235]

Ivan
Truthfully, and not just to console you, not everyone falls when prayed for. From personal experience, there are times I have and others when I have not. And when I didn't there were others that did. God deals with people individually, and also not all in the same way.

About talking in tongues. For some it seems to come very easy and for others not. When I first started talking in tongues there was only one or two words, but (like a child) I learnt more and more.

I encourage you to not give up in believing that you will receive this gift. Have you been baptised in the holy spirit? Often speaking in tongues coincides with this. (You may have mentioned it previously, but I haven't read all the posts.)

I do believe if you earnestly desire these things the Lord will give them to you, sometimes though it is in His time. Ask Him for it and be expectant.

I pray that soon we will see your testimony that you have received what you have asked for.

 

[Hadron]

You mentioned "cellgroup". What kind of organization is this?

 

[IvanOng]

You mentioned "cellgroup". What kind of organization is this?

Oh, over here in our church, we refer as cell group... its not any organization..

 

[SharonL]

Hi there, Im a 4 months old christian from a charismatic church and have some questions for you people.

Q1: When the pastors laid hands on me, I didn't fall while others did. That was the second time I failed to fall. Im so sad and discouraged, can you people tell me why? I didn't doubt, I was expecting the power of God to make me fall..

Q2: I have a big problem in speaking in tongue. It has been 4 months and I still couldn't pray it. My entire cellgroup prayed for me, then my cellgroup leader prayed 3 times for me to speak it. Then myself tried to do a research from the internet... it all sounds so easy. After thru all these, Im still unable to pray in tongues. Im very disappointed in myself, I could do nothing when ALL of my church/cellgrp members r praying out loud in tongues. Seriously i need help to pray in tongue.. please give me some advice.. Again I didn doubt it... Im always waiting for that string of words to be inserted into my heart by the Holy Spirit before I could let it flow out.. but still it didn...

Please pray for me when you read this, I felt so discourage.. really.. HELP me pls I will truly appreciate for your answers or advice... thanks a million

Ivan - God knows your heart and knows you are hungry for more. Sometimes we really get hung up on how to do things. Don't follow anyone else - just be yourself - talk to God and tell Him your concern.

I knew nothing about the infilling of the Holy Spirit or speaking in tongues, but I had a friend who seemed so much closer to God than I was and she told me she spoke in tongues - I thought how misguided is this woman - the devil always trys to quence anything good. Well that confused me more than ever.

I just started doing some research - I was reading a book on a pastor searching for information on the Holy Spirit - I was alone and all I did was say "God if this is of you - I want it" - I felt the presence of God very strong and two foreign words came to my mind - I did not know what they were, but I spoke them and for 3 hours the most beautiful language came forth and I prayed for 3 straight hours.

My life has never been the same. You feel so much closer to God and the leading of the Holy Spirit is so strong in your life when you have the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Get off by yourself and just talk to God - sometimes when everyone is around you praying it is not the way God wants to give you this gift. Everyone receives this gift differently.

The main thing is to not be discouraged - this does not make you any less important to God because you have not received the gift as yet - He is preparing your heart - just keep asking for it, but make it between you and God and not a spectical.

As far as falling - I have never fallen - was in a meeting of over 700 people - everyone was on the floor but me - one of the helpers came by and said "would you at least kneel down" - I left the meeting. Like was said - I have the Mighty Oak Anointing - standing tall. Does not make one bit of difference to God. You are no less spiritual because you don't fall. Just enjoy your new found walk and accept the gifts as God gives them to you.

 

[SharonL]

I really wanna know the truth, are you all consoling me? If Im lacking of something, please tell me. I mean, how can anyone could withstand the strong presence of God, that's the reason many have fell. As for me, I did not is because the entire presence of God wasn't upon me.

And when I didn't fall that time, a pastor asked me whether am I a Christian. Its kinda hurt me when he asked me that way. You see, the point is they expected me to fall but in the end which didn turn out that way.

Mighty Oak>> such annointing is true? Did the bible stated anything about this? Isn't this some way to console us?

No this is not in the bible about the Mighty Oak - that was just my way of joking about never falling -

 

[SharonL]

Yesterday we r asked to move forward for the pastor to lay his hand on us again... again Im the only ONE who didn fall while all of them really fell.... If some of you said Mighty Oak is 1 of the annointings, why Im the only ONE who gets it.

I felt so odd.. It's like the power of God didn't fall on me and im praying to God that time, asking Him to make me fall so that I could witness his power and feel his tangible presence. What's wrong with me?

I really hope someone could explain this to me.. please... its the 3rd time I the only ONE who didn fall...

I am sorry - I am the one that said the Mighty Oak anointing - I forget about other languages and this has confused you. There is no anointing like this - the mighty oak just stands tall against wind and everything else - that was just my way of saying I never fall.

I think you are letting this worry you too much and your church is pushing too hard for you to fall and it is confusing you.

Please read all the answers to all the posts, you will not find one that says you must fall. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW STRONG YOUR BELIEF IS.
Believe me - I have never fallen and I know my heart is right with God. Everyone has a different relationship with God - just enjoy your walk and let everything come in its own time. If you are uncomfortable standing, just kneel down to pray. Like I say - I have been in a meeting where there were 700 people and I was the only one left standing. That does not mean I did not receive anything from God - it just means I receive it different than the others.

Just praise God and enjoy His company - everything will come in time, Just get rid of thinking there is something wrong with you. Just keep asking the Holy Spirit to fill you and just talk to God - tell him you want every gift he has for you and accept them as they come. God is strengthening your faith so stop saying there is something wrong with you.

Just enjoy yourself and know that God loves you.

 

[SharonL]

Ivanong....I wasn't two lines into your story when the words flashed through my mind that this isn't about YOU. This is about your PASTOR.

It could be, many years ago, he was taught that falling was evidence of yielding to the Spirit and standing up was nothing short of rebellion.

The Lord may be using you to teach him TRUTH.

Whether you're lying on your back in the sanctuary, sitting in a pew, or fishing on the bank of a river....makes no difference to God. He's quite capable of ministering to you regardless of your whereabouts.

Guard your heart during this time and please don't receive any harsh words of condemnation. Listen to what has been said to you here...wise words indeed.

(Oscarr, no one's ever accused you of being reticent..have they hon?)

This is a great post and the Lord spoke to my heart that this is exactly what is happening - you must be strong through this as God is using you to teach that Pastor something - He is leading you wrong if he says you must fall under the Spirit. THIS IS NOT TRUE.

Oscarr that is a great idea to e-mail that Pastor - he may be causing some to fall from their desire to serve God.

My heart is sad to see someone so full of love for God and be discouraged like you are being from your church. Stand up to those that are telling you that you have not received God - just tell them that God looks at the heart and not weather you are flat on the floor. Get the joy of the Lord in your heart and you will show them what it is all about.

 

[heron]

There are some churches that place a high importance on manifestations--even to the point of saying that a person isn't saved without them. If you see this happening, lead them back into scriptures, to Jesus' words.

Remember that falling under the power of God is about the real, tangible presence of Him there. If He chooses not to bowl you over, that's His choice, not the pastor's, not the elders' and probably not yours. God is God.

 

[mysparrow]

This pastor in your church must have a powerful influence on you if after reading all the responses to your first post and you still are determined to think that falling down is an evidence of the power of the Holy Spirit within you.

If that pastor has doubted that you are a Christian because you don't fall down he should be kicked in the rear end right out of his job and sent back to a good Bible-based Bible college to get rid of his ignorance and learn how to pastor correctly.

Give me his name and his email, and I will tell him directly!!!!!
I would not be afraid of giving him a piece of my mind!!

Print off this post and hand it to him next time you go to church. Pastors like him need a strong message about what is the power of the Spirit and what is not.

And, come on. Listen to us. We are mature, experienced Christians. I have been walking with the Lord for 39 years and I have been through all this. The Lord has shown me without a doubt that He does not care whether you fall over or not. Believe me, He couldn't give two hoots about it.

What He wants to see is whether you are truly converted to Christ in your heart. 'Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.'

I sincerely wonder what your church teaches about the Christian life. It seems to me that their test of true spirituality consists in outward manifestations before the spiritual voyeurs who get off on seeing others fall over and shake and do all sorts of silly things that the critics of Pentecostalism love to blather on about to try and discredit the movement.

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. This means that someone who is full of the Holy Spirit is powerful in making Jesus real to others. This means that the true operation of the gifts of the Spirit is to bring others to Jesus. If the operation of those gifts do not bring people to Jesus, then they are not being used correctly.

If your church uses the gifts for the purpose of providing entertainment and demonstration for the spectators then you are not having Holy Ghost meetings. All you are having are Halleluhah Hootenannies with no real virtue that God can respect or use. Unless people are being brought to Jesus through the ministry of your church, it is nothing but a circus. Actually a circus would be more entertaining and meaningful.

If I am being hard on you, it is because I want you to seek God to discern truth from error. I don't want you to develop into a useless 'Pentecostal' who is more concerned about outward manifestations than being strong in the Spirit and the Word of God to be an effective witness for the Lord Jesus.

If your pastors are not working with you to develop your knowledge of God's word and your growth in grace in the Lord through good Christian discipleship, then shame on them! They would be better giving up the ministry and going to be insurance salesmen. They would be more effective. Then opportunity would be given for real men of God to lead your church in the true ways of God and of the Spirit.

Am I starting to sound like JimM now?

I totally agree, so many churches place importance on "seeing" the spirit fall , like they cant have worship unless people are falling out , etc. Let God be God .

 

[IvanOng]

Really thanks alot.. you all have enlightened me. From now onwards I will just worship God wholeheartedly without bothering what the rest are doing.

As for the speaking in tongue, I will continue to wait for it, no matter how long it does take. I know sooner or later, I'll be able to speak it as God is a God who never break his promises.

Well, I will just simply do my best and God will do the rest !

 

[IvanOng]

The fact that God doesn't want to interfere our freewill seems to contradict with those verses in the bible that tells us to pray oftenly.

A guy is being held up by a terrorist and he was praying to God for help. However God didn't want to interfere it, since it's the freewill of both that led to such scenario. Wouldn't this mean that our prayers are not necessary?

If I'm wrong to say that, please correct me.

 

[IvanOng]

Yea and another illustration would be it is freewill, we ourselves who chose to eat the type of food we want, resulting our current health status. If anybody is ill and that God is a God who doesn't interfere our freewill, can I say again that prayers are useless?

 

[LivingByFaith]

Also something to think about Ivan, is that maybe one person falls and the rest fall. I don't mean to sound rude, but it does happen in some congregations.

 

[God_follower]

Ivan, I have thought about that aspect of prayer before, He doesnt mind steping in when you pray to Him, in fact its only by prayer that gets things done. From experience I've learned that Jesus works very well from prayer and faith... these 2 things are good things, nessecary things.

About the terrorist thing, i have heard stories about people praying while they were being mugged (they lived in columbia at the time) and the muggers held up their arms to shield their faces and ran away, and another time this same person (same situation) prayed to be protected and the men got really scared and asked for bus fare to get outta there! The Lord answers prayer and... its good to just talk to Him.

 

[Tink]

IvanOng,

I just wanted to share this Scripture with you.

In His love,
Tink

[BIBLE] 1 Corinthians 12
Spiritual Gifts

1What I want to talk about now is the various ways God's Spirit gets worked into our lives. This is complex and often misunderstood, but I want you to be informed and knowledgeable. 2Remember how you were when you didn't know God, led from one phony god to another, never knowing what you were doing, just doing it because everybody else did it? It's different in this life. God wants us to use our intelligence, to seek to understand as well as we can. 3For instance, by using your heads, you know perfectly well that the Spirit of God would never prompt anyone to say "Jesus be damned!" Nor would anyone be inclined to say "Jesus is Master!" without the insight of the Holy Spirit.

4God's various gifts are handed out everywhere; but they all originate in God's Spirit. 5God's various ministries are carried out everywhere; but they all originate in God's Spirit. 6God's various expressions of power are in action everywhere; but God himself is behind it all. 7Each person is given something to do that shows who God is: Everyone gets in on it, everyone benefits. All kinds of things are handed out by the Spirit, and to all kinds of people! 8The variety is wonderful:

wise counsel

clear understanding

9simple trust

healing the sick

10miraculous acts

proclamation

distinguishing between spirits

tongues

interpretation of tongues.

11All these gifts have a common origin, but are handed out one by one by the one Spirit of God. He decides who gets what, and when.

12You can easily enough see how this kind of thing works by looking no further than your own body. Your body has many parts--limbs, organs, cells--but no matter how many parts you can name, you're still one body. It's exactly the same with Christ. 13By means of his one Spirit, we all said good-bye to our partial and piecemeal lives. We each used to independently call our own shots, but then we entered into a large and integrated life in which he has the final say in everything. (This is what we proclaimed in word and action when we were baptized.) Each of us is now a part of his resurrection body, refreshed and sustained at one fountain--his Spirit--where we all come to drink. The old labels we once used to identify ourselves--labels like Jew or Greek, slave or free--are no longer useful. We need something larger, more comprehensive.

14I want you to think about how all this makes you more significant, not less. A body isn't just a single part blown up into something huge. It's all the different-but-similar parts arranged and functioning together. 15If Foot said, "I'm not elegant like Hand, embellished with rings; I guess I don't belong to this body," would that make it so? 16If Ear said, "I'm not beautiful like Eye, limpid and expressive; I don't deserve a place on the head," would you want to remove it from the body? 17If the body was all eye, how could it hear? If all ear, how could it smell? 18As it is, we see that God has carefully placed each part of the body right where he wanted it.

19But I also want you to think about how this keeps your significance from getting blown up into self-importance. For no matter how significant you are, it is only because of what you are a part of. An enormous eye or a gigantic hand wouldn't be a body, but a monster. 20What we have is one body with many parts, each its proper size and in its proper place. No part is important on its own. 21Can you imagine Eye telling Hand, "Get lost; I don't need you"? Or, Head telling Foot, "You're fired; your job has been phased out"? 22As a matter of fact, in practice it works the other way--the "lower" the part, the more basic, and therefore necessary. You can live without an eye, for instance, but not without a stomach. 23When it's a part of your own body you are concerned with, it makes no difference whether the part is visible or clothed, higher or lower. You give it dignity and honor just as it is, without comparisons. 24If anything, you have more concern for the lower parts than the higher. If you had to choose, wouldn't you prefer good digestion to full-bodied hair?

25The way God designed our bodies is a model for understanding our lives together as a church: every part dependent on every other part, the parts we mention and the parts we don't, 26the parts we see and the parts we don't. If one part hurts, every other part is involved in the hurt, and in the healing. If one part flourishes, every other part enters into the exuberance.

27You are Christ's body--that's who you are! You must never forget this. Only as you accept your part of that body does your "part" mean anything. 28You're familiar with some of the parts that God has formed in his church, which is his "body":

apostles

prophets

teachers

miracle workers

healers

helpers

organizers

those who pray in tongues.

29But it's obvious by now, isn't it, that Christ's church is a complete Body and not a gigantic, unidimensional Part? It's not all Apostle, not all Prophet, not all Miracle Worker, 30not all Healer, not all Prayer in Tongues, not all Interpreter of Tongues. 31And yet some of you keep competing for so-called "important" parts.
[/BIBLE]

These quotes are from 'The Message' version of the Bible. All emphasis is mine.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

(Oscarr, no one's ever accused you of being reticent..have they hon?)

It is easy on a forum like this to speak what I really believe, because I don't have to deal with people face to face.

What I am finding really hard is when I am faced with real people - then my courage is not as strong. For example, it would be quite difficult for me to say these things to the minister of my own church (he is a standard Presbyterian minister who does not promote the supernatural works of God).

So I am probably more sensitive and strategic among the people I fellowship with because they need a softer, more patient approach. So, I am reticent with them as far as the things of the Spirit are concerned.

On this forum, we have more aggressive and assertive people, and so a different approach is required to unsettle and challenge people. It seems that the Spirit gives me a lot more freedom here than among the people in my own church. I don't see that as an inconsistency - just a different way of ministering to people.

But the day may come where God will trust me to get up and speak challenging things to people. All the practice I am getting here will then show to be really worthwhile.

However, Hisgirl, between you and Sue, if I get into error or say anything inappropriate, I will be thoroughly sorted out. Just like in my home when my wife and daughter need to sort me out at times. Oh... the joys of being henpecked.....!

 

[Hisgirl]

Oscarr...

Me? Henpeck you?

I would NEVER (cough, cough, cluck, cough) henpeck anyone.

Now...back on topic...

 

[David333]

Ephesians 1:13-14 says: "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory."

The Bible is God's word to us. read this verse slowly and carefully. YOU have heard the Gospel. You have been told that Jesus lived, died, and rose again, and that the meaning of all this is that He is our Saviour: He is the one who took our sins on His shoulders because God loves us so much.

YOU have heard the "message of truth", and YOU have believed. Therefore YOU were sealed with the Holy Spirit. It's surprisingly easy. You don't need to beg the Holy Spirit to come to you in order to please your pastor. When you heard the Gospel and believed you were sealed with His Spirit.

God doesn't give our half measures. He hasn't given your pastor all of his Spirit and you just a little of it. You have all that you need within you. Within you is a spark from that burning fire that is God. So what do you have to do? Just trust that God has given you everything you need, that you don't need to beg for certain gifts to please others.

This gift of the Spirit needs to be kindled: by prayer, worship, praise... . What do you notice about all those? We pray to God; we worship God; we praise God. By focusing on him we take the focus away from ourselves allowing the Spirit space to grow in us.

Let me finish with a metaphor. Imagine the Holy Spirit as a rainbow containing many colours or gifts. Now, wouldn't it be better to focus on God to pray for His Spirit, rather than just focusing on getting the colour blue or the gift of healing for example... .

Focus on Him through prayer, praise and worship. Christianity isn't about falling or speaking in tongues: it's about Him. It's about hearing the Gospel, believing the Gospel, believing that God has given himself for and to you. It's about believing that you are a beloved child of God because He has made you one. God bless.