Near perfect existence

[Chriliman]

I remember Ana revealing to be a dude a while back.

Oops, Ana I apologies if you are a dude :/

Because satisfactory answers are really easy. And I take them. I always have.

Sure, just don't expect the answer to the meaning of life to come easily.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Sure, just don't expect the answer to the meaning of life to come easily.

Came pretty easy to me. It's relative to me and me alone.

 

[Chriliman]

Came pretty easy to me. It's relative to me and me alone.

That is a very easy meaning of your life because in that meaning you're the only being that really matters.

 

[Eudaimonist]

If my beliefs about what is true turns out to be true, I will be rewarded with everlasting life(life that is far better than current life). If my beliefs about what is true turns out to be false and God does not exist, I will simply vanish into nothingness when I die. I much prefer everlasting life with a perfect God over vanishing into nothingness

Pascal's Wager? That just makes one uninterested in truth. All you are looking for is the biggest hypothetical payoff, without any serious regard for what is true.

Objectivity is pointless if we just cease to exist when we die.

No, we benefit while we are alive. Objectivity might not only aid survival, it may aid our quality of life. All of this matters before we die.

I don't see how an atheist can justify their opposition to God

Opposition to what? I don't believe that God exists. How can I oppose God? No, I oppose nonsense like Pascal's Wager, in which one gambles on truth.

All atheists should deeply ask themselves "What is my true motivation?"

This life. Personal flourishing. Eudaimonia.

It seems the true motivation is to watch Christian stumble and fall and for what?

Hasn't it occurred to you that the motivation might be to see Christians stand up and succeed at life?

So you can be right? Seems like very self righteous behavior.

The irony is thick here.

My motivation is to try and help you understand my beliefs so you can share in the hope and joy I find in Jesus Christ.

My motivation is similar, so you can see that atheists can lead meaningful lives, regardless of your path in life.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

I'm pretty sure Ana the Ist is a girl, but I could be wrong

You are wrong. It's a play on spelling.

Ana the Ist.
AnatheIst.
An atheist.

His name isn't "Ana". He's a guy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GrimKingGrim]

That is a very easy meaning of your life because in that meaning you're the only being that really matters.

What kind of sense does it make to try and define life for people that are not myself?

Answer that.

 

[Chriliman]

What kind of sense does it make to try and define life for people that are not myself?

Answer that.

How about defining another's life as just as valuable as your own life? When you do this though you have to acknowledge that something gives everyone's life value. That something would be beyond your control.

 

[Chriliman]

You are wrong. It's a play on spelling.

Ana the Ist.
AnatheIst.
An atheist.

His name isn't "Ana". He's a guy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ah, I get it. The "Ana" part threw me off.

 

[Chriliman]

My motivation is similar, so you can see that atheists can lead meaningful lives, regardless of your path in life.

But our paths only met because of God, is there no meaning in that?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

How about defining another's life as just as valuable as your own life? When you do this though you have to acknowledge that something gives everyone's life value. That something would be beyond your control.

I don't value everyone's life like my own. I acknowledge that everyone is alive and respect that their lives should not be interrupted by me if I am not involved with them at all. But I don't value them like myself.

Who are you? Why are you valuable to me?

Value is a relative term. Because one might see something as valuable while another doesn't. So no not everyone's life is valuable to me like my own. You're a person and I'm not a sociopath, so that's as far as you and everyone else I don't know goes.

That doesn't mean I value you, just means I respect you, as a person. And value is nowhere near objective.

 

[Eudaimonist]

But our paths only met because of God, is there no meaning in that?

Our paths met because of the Internet. The Internet isn't God.

However, there may certainly be meaning in two human beings meeting each other.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Chriliman]

I don't value everyone's life like my own. I acknowledge that everyone is alive and respect that their lives should not be interrupted by me if I am not involved with them at all. But I don't value them like myself.

Who are you? Why are you valuable to me?

Value is a relative term. Because one might see something as valuable while another doesn't. So no not everyone's life is valuable to me like my own. You're a person and I'm not a sociopath, so that's as far as you and everyone else I don't know goes.

That doesn't mean I value you, just means I respect you, as a person. And value is nowhere near objective.

So I put more value on your life than you put on my life. Even though I recognize this as true, I still value your life because I'm more empathetic than you are. How can empathy possibly evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system?

This is one of those very difficult questions to answer unless you appeal to a higher meaning than just ourselves. Its seems impossible for empathy to evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system. You can't explain empathy using evolution, yet empathy exists in humans.

 

[Freodin]

Hasn't it occurred to you that the motivation might be to see Christians stand up and succeed at life?

Well said, Mark, well said!

But that is where a claim of divine truth gets you: it leads you to assume that all the others follow satanic lies.

 

[Freodin]

This is one of those very difficult questions to answer unless you appeal to a higher meaning than just ourselves. Its seems impossible for empathy to evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system. You can't explain empathy using evolution, yet empathy exists in humans.

You can explain it. But there may be people whose accepted worldview makes it impossible for them to even admit that there are explanations for things that seem impossible for them.

That these people still can claim to value honesty... is almost beyond me.

 

[Chriliman]

You can explain it. But there may be people whose accepted worldview makes it impossible for them to even admit that there are explanations for things that seem impossible for them.

That these people still can claim to value honesty... is almost beyond me.

That may be.

The only explanation we have yet to discover is why we exist in the first place. Still a work in progress...

 

[GrimKingGrim]

So I put more value on your life than you put on my life.

Exactly. I don't know you.

Even though I recognize this as true, I still value your life because I'm more empathetic than you are.

How does empathy even play into this?

How can empathy possibly evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system?

I swear a post that misunderstands evolution is obligatory with your type.

This is one of those very difficult questions to answer unless you appeal to a higher meaning than just ourselves.

You honestly thought that question was difficult?

Its seems impossible for empathy to evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system. You can't explain empathy using evolution, yet empathy exists in humans.

The ability to empathize coincides with social species. Cooperation. Shared knowledge. Knowing what could befall another by just thinking about it or experiencing it prior. It helps further the idea of working together to protect one another and help the species grow and survive. A quick reasoning that rationalizes protection by instinct. Another mechanism that favors survival and growth.

That's not difficult to explain and I'm not even an expert.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

That may be.

The only explanation we have yet to discover is why we exist in the first place. Still a work in progress...

Explain why there's a 'why' though.

 

[paulm50]

I'd suggest studying seismology to determine the objective truth behind why earthquakes happen. From my limited knowledge of seismology, earthquakes are caused my the movement of tectonic plates covering the earth. Tectonic plates move because the earths core is hot and causes the movement. We could go on and on determining the cause behind why the earth's core is hot and so on until we get to the cause of why the universe exists and at that point we realize we cannot determine an objective truth because if the universe has a cause then that cause would not be physical because if it was physical then it would be of the universe and I don't think is reasonable to determine that the universe caused itself.

If you want the truth to why death causes pain and sorrow, then I have a completely separate answer for you which I've clearly stated already.

We know why the Earth was created the way it was. Science tells us.

What we're asking is why didn't god create it without all the natural disasters? That's like asking why he gave us free will, allows satan to rule, Jesus didn't convert the Jews, and evil is rampant today. Yes we read the answer, we just don't agree with it.

If evidence was presented that the Universe did create itself, would that shake your belief in god?

Its seems impossible for empathy to evolve from a kill or be killed evolutionary system. You can't explain empathy using evolution, yet empathy exists in humans.

Empathy is between close, similar people, animals, etc. It has no place in evolution, otherwise animals wouldn't kill other animals and natural selection wouldn't progress.

As for humans, obviously there's no empathy. Many Christians were keen on killing others, and had no intention of empathising. It might help if you empathise with us. We do with you, by looking at your evidence. And pointing out where you are wrong, without going to the spiritual side.

 

[bhsmte]

But our paths only met because of God, is there no meaning in that?

Can you demonstrate this?

And, going by what many people's opinions are of your personal logic, maybe it was Satan that caused the path's to cross.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'd suggest studying seismology to determine the objective truth behind why earthquakes happen. From my limited knowledge of seismology, earthquakes are caused my the movement of tectonic plates covering the earth. Tectonic plates move because the earths core is hot and causes the movement. We could go on and on determining the cause behind why the earth's core is hot and so on until we get to the cause of why the universe exists and at that point we realize we cannot determine an objective truth because if the universe has a cause then that cause would not be physical because if it was physical then it would be of the universe and I don't think is reasonable to determine that the universe caused itself.

If you want the truth to why death causes pain and sorrow, then I have a completely separate answer for you which I've clearly stated already.

You've gone and failed to answer my question again. At this point, it's hard for me to imagine that you're not avoiding it on purpose.

I'm not asking "what causes an earthquake" which is the question you tried to answer here. We know what causes earthquakes...and if you believe that god created the earth, then you can only conclude that he created it in a way that allows earthquakes to happen.

The question is why didn't he create it in a way that earthquakes don't happen? Think of it like this....

You know how every time it floods in a place that has an open sulfur mine...the waters turn into sulfuric acid and burn everyone who lives in those places horribly? No?

You probably never heard of that because that's not how water and sulfur work. Had god decided to make water and sulfur work that way....you would hear about things like that....but he didn't, so you don't.

Well it the world could be a place without earthquakes...and the very idea of the ground shaking until buildings collapse would be a joke. That isn't how the world works though...there are earthquakes and they do kill people sometimes.

Why would a perfect god make the earth so that it has earthquakes?