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Why?
And we don't agree...no matter how much you'd like to pretend so.
Let's say this infinite eternal God gave a finite man the ability to prove Himself, would it not be true that this finite man was only able to prove God because God allowed it, thus showing that only God can prove himself, even if he uses a finite man to do it?
Let's say this infinite eternal God gave a finite man the ability to prove Himself, would it not be true that this finite man was only able to prove God because God allowed it, thus showing that only God can prove himself, even if he uses a finite man to do it?
No thanks. This is not general apologetics.First step first. Let´s see how far your proof goes into the details of your god concept.
I am content with taking a break for the time being.You do tend to get ahead of yourself there.
I'm still waiting for you back at post #774.
No...that's illogical.
An infinite "anything" (god included) would be present everywhere.
Therefore, if it's detectable at all, it would be detectable everywhere.
Right, it would be detectable everywhere and at any point in your life and it would also not be able to control your free will because that would be unjust. So, it would be up to you to freely ask God to make his presence known to you. Ask and you shall receive.
I've tried...long ago....he never showed.
What's the logical conclusion to that result?
He doesn't exist.
I'm sincerely glad you have asked, that's a good sign, but remember, if this God is real, he wants access to the deepest part of your being in order to make you perfect like he is. one has to be willing to give there all to God in exchange for God to make them perfect.
Do you send letters to Santa? Why not? Do you not want free stuff?Right, it would be detectable everywhere and at any point in your life and it would also not be able to control your free will because that would be unjust. So, it would be up to you to freely ask God to make his presence known to you. Ask and you shall receive.
And if gods are not real, you are imagining all of this.I'm sincerely glad you have asked, that's a good sign, but remember, if this God is real, he wants access to the deepest part of your being in order to make you perfect like he is. one has to be willing to give there all to God in exchange for God to make them perfect.
I don't think I would like to rely on religious opinion, if your posting history is anything to go on..Do you desire to be freed from all evil and lies and only have truth to rely on?
You still have yet to define what you mean by "God".Just think about it and remember what I said about it being rational to believe in the possibilty of God because that is a true statement even if you don't believe it.
Have a good night
Right, it would be detectable everywhere and at any point in your life and it would also not be able to control your free will because that would be unjust.
I really never understood this concept of perfection. Who determines what is perfect? My answer would be yourself, since perfection is a subjective term.I'm sincerely glad you have asked, that's a good sign, but remember, if this God is real, he wants access to the deepest part of your being in order to make you perfect like he is.
Emphasis mine.
I don't think you mean that God would be "unable" to control your free will; He's omnipotent after all right? He just wouldn't out of courtesy.
I've gotta admit, I've never heard of a believer describe God as not being omnipotent. That's one paradox off the table, well done.I meant what I said. God is unable to be unjust, therefore not omnipotent in the sense that He actually can't do whatever is possible, like control free will, He can only do what is in His perfect will, which includes being perfectly just. This would also mean God is perfect, therefore, the canon of what it means to be perfect.
No, (correct information? I'm just curious, in no way will it affect the rest of our discussion, but could you cite where you're getting your information?) it doesn't change much. You've only allowed yourself some wiggle room within the options of four and six where this creator unintentionally creates imperfect or perfect things within the universe. I can see the potential for this, hypothetically, but it does call into question the extent of this creator's knowledge and power, neither of which could be considered "omni".Do you want to reconsider the rest of what you've said considering this correct information about God?
Hypothetically, if you realized the truth about how life came to be, wouldn't you want to tell everyone about it?
Abiogenesis is just a collection of theories, not necessarily the truth.
I meant what I said. God is unable to be unjust, therefore not omnipotent in the sense that He actually can't do whatever is possible, like control free will, He can only do what is in His perfect will, which includes being perfectly just.
*ahum*
http://biblehub.com/exodus/9-12.htm
= your god, hardening the heart of pharao, making sure that he will not listen to or believe the words and miracles of Moses. If that isn't messing around with someone's free will - then I don't know what is.
Also, a "perfectly just" being is not in the business of mercy and forgiveness.
True mercy and forgiveness is impossible for finite man to do because we cannot peer into the heart of others and see if they are truly sorry for what they've done. Sure a man can say they are sorry, but they might not be sincere. Only an omniscient being could actually see what's in the heart of a man and would be the only being capable of truly forgiving them if the man is truly sorry.Mercy and forgiveness is the suspension of justice.
A "perfecly just" being would not reward gullibility while punishing rational thinking.
A "perfecly just" being would not punish a scapegoat for the crimes of others.
A "perfecly just" being would not consider off spring to carry the guilt of the crimes of ancestors.
A "perfecly just" being would, in his judgement, not put more importance on what you believed instead of how you behaved.
The god of the bible is the very opposite of "perfectly just".
And christianity as a whole is a testament to that fact.
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