Near perfect existence

[anonymous person]

Killing everyone in a flood is abysmally evil....wouldn't you agree?

Even on a more basic level than that...if I knew my actions would somehow inadvertently cause the eternal suffering of countless creatures...I wouldn't do those actions at all.

These problems are secondary though...try not to forget that you're asking me to imagine a being exists that I don't think exists. That way you won't confuse the reasons I'm giving you now for my reasons.

Even if you did have reason to think Jesus existed, you would not desire Him. That is the key. Jesus is a gentleman. He is not going to make your life miserable by imposing Himself upon you.

 

[anonymous person]

Ah, the religionist's game of telling me what their god isn't. Isn't detectable. Isn't testable. Isn't presentable. Isn't definable.

Is there anything else that your god isn't?

He is not a rapist.

 

[Davian]

Even if you did have reason to think Jesus existed, you would not desire Him. That is the key.

I do not know how you can say that. It may be that, as a believer, one may be able to overlook the dearth of evidence, the conflicts with mainstream science, and a few outrageous moral concepts. After all, eternal life and a promise of Heaven are on the line.

Jesus is a gentleman.

Is this the same Jesus that dictates a theology that would hold one responsible for things beyond ones' control? Eternal punishment, and all that?

He is not going to make your life miserable by imposing Himself upon you.

By "not imposing", you mean he will appear to be, by every available objective measure, simply a character in a book?

 

[Davian]

He is not a rapist.

Interesting. Let me ask you, hypothetically: If you knew that I had seen a child being raped, and had the ability to interfere, would you hold me responsible for standing by, allowing it to happen, and saying nothing to anyone about it? Does your morality say that I should have interfered?

 

[anonymous person]

Interesting. Let me ask you, hypothetically: If you knew that I had seen a child being raped, and had the ability to interfere, would you hold me responsible for standing by, allowing it to happen, and saying nothing to anyone about it? Does your morality say that I should have interfered?

Yes I would. I would say your silence and your cowardice was evidence of your carnal, sinful, self-centered, self-seeking callous nature.

 

[anonymous person]

I do not know how you can say that. It may be that, as a believer, one may be able to overlook the dearth of evidence, the conflicts with mainstream science, and a few outrageous moral concepts. After all, eternal life and a promise of Heaven are on the line.

You forgot one thing.

Is this the same Jesus that dictates a theology that would hold one responsible for things beyond ones' control? Eternal punishment, and all that?

No

By "not imposing", you mean he will appear to be, by every available objective measure, simply a character in a book?

Yes

 

[Ana the Ist]

Even if you did have reason to think Jesus existed, you would not desire Him. That is the key. Jesus is a gentleman. He is not going to make your life miserable by imposing Himself upon you.

Untrue...

If he didn't want to "impose" upon me...he could've stayed silent. We'd never have heard of Jesus or christianity.

 

[anonymous person]

Untrue...

If he didn't want to "impose" upon me...he could've stayed silent. We'd never have heard of Jesus or christianity.

Only if you equate "staying silent" with "not imposing oneself upon another".

You may declare your love for a certain bright and charming young person. But just because you make such a declaration, it does not necessarily follow that you are imposing yourself upon them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Only if you equate "staying silent" with "not imposing oneself upon another".

I'm sorry...doesn't he command praise?

I suppose if he just showed up to discuss the weather...you'd have an argument.

 

[anonymous person]

I'm sorry...doesn't he command praise?

I suppose if he just showed up to discuss the weather...you'd have an argument.

God commands praise?

Why do you think that?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What did Jesus say that leads you to believe that He was lying about Himself or that He did not understand Himself as well as you do?

It seems to me from your statements, that you are not a follower of Christ not because of some lack of evidence, but rather because you have something against Christ. You in some sense see Him as someone simply not worth trusting and hoping in and following. You think yourself more righteous than He. You feel you can get along pretty well without Him it seems.

Do you think your strategy here isn't transparent?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Even if you did have reason to think Jesus existed, you would not desire Him. That is the key. Jesus is a gentleman. He is not going to make your life miserable by imposing Himself upon you.

If what you say about the afterlife is true, then shouldn't he be a little less polite?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Only if you equate "staying silent" with "not imposing oneself upon another".

You may declare your love for a certain bright and charming young person. But just because you make such a declaration, it does not necessarily follow that you are imposing yourself upon them.

What about if you put a gun to their head and demand that they love you or you will shoot them?

 

[Davian]

Yes I would. I would say your silence and your cowardice was evidence of your carnal, sinful, self-centered, self-seeking callous nature.

Interesting. What I meant to ask was, hypothetically, if your allegedly all-powerful-all-knowing deity observes a child being raped, and has the ability to interfere, would you hold it responsible for standing by, allowing it to happen, and saying nothing to anyone about it? Does your morality say that it should have interfered?

 

[Ana the Ist]

God commands praise?

Why do you think that?

You're kidding right?

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Think about that for a minute....

It's really important not to take the lord's name in vain, but rape? Didn't make the big list...

 

[Davian]

You forgot one thing.

And you forgot to say what that was.

No

A different Jesus then? How many were there?

Yes

Interesting. How does one differentiate a god that is, by every available objective measure, simply a character in a book, from one that is simply a character in a book?

 

[Davian]

Only if you equate "staying silent" with "not imposing oneself upon another".

...or appearing as simply a character in a book.

You may declare your love for a certain bright and charming young person. But just because you make such a declaration,

Exactly how does a "god" make such a declaration?

it does not necessarily follow that you are imposing yourself upon them.

In this context, should not the person that is "not being imposed upon" be made aware of, in some compelling fashion, of the eternal-lasting-flamethrower that is pointed at their head, for if they don't reciprocate?

 

[quatona]

Assume that He is alive for a moment

You seem to use a very special meaning of "alive" here that I can´t seem to make sense of.

and is who He said He was.

Who did he say he was?
I may be be mistaken - but the assumption of his (demi-)divinity rests upon his use of "my father" for God. Seeing how "father" is a metaphore used throughout the bible for the God-human relationship, I don´t see a reason to interprete it differently here.

If you believed He was who He said He was, would you place your hope and trust in Him as He encouraged us to do? Would you be willing to do His will and forsake your own? Would you be willing to take up your cross daily and follow Him?

Would it be possible for you to ask those questions so that they are intelligible for ordinary people - i.e. without using this Christianese dialect that I can´t decypher?

 

[DogmaHunter]

And that is why you cannot believe.

I can only believe that which I find convincing.

I don't "choose" my beliefs. Beliefs are a compulsion.
Christianity, or indeed any other religion, fails to convince me.

That, and only that, is the reason why I am an atheist.