Near perfect existence

[anonymous person]

Your perspective has no effect on reality. Just because you think you'll exist eternally doesn't make it so.

He didn't say that.

Chriliman and I both agree with you.

We believe that all human beings will live forever in either one of two places because God has said so.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He didn't say that.

Chriliman and I both agree with you.

We believe that all human beings will live forever in either one of two places because God has said so.

That's what he said.

Otherwise, why add the words "from my perspective"? If he believes the truth is unaffected by perspective, then his or anyone else's perspective doesn't matter.

 

[anonymous person]

That's what he said.

Otherwise, why add the words "from my perspective"? If he believes the truth is unaffected by perspective, then his or anyone else's perspective doesn't matter.

If Chriliman died while sitting beside you on the bus, from your perspective, you would see a dead body. Right?

 

[Ana the Ist]

If Chriliman died while sitting beside you on the bus, from your perspective, you would see a dead body. Right?

Even if I didn't see him, there would still be a dead body.

 

[anonymous person]

Even if I didn't see him, there would still be a dead body.

Right.

Now assume that Chriliman has a spirit/soul that can never die i.e that is eternal. While those who are restricted to observing only those things which are visible to the human eye would see a dead body, Chriliman, would be experiencing reality differently.

Despite the fact that you and Chriliman would be viewing reality differently, the truth of the matter is that Chriliman still exists, assuming that humans are eternal beings of course.

This was his point.

 

[quatona]

Right.

Now assume that Chriliman has a spirit/soul that can never die i.e that is eternal. While those who are restricted to observing only those things which are visible to the human eye would see a dead body, Chriliman, would be experiencing reality differently.

Despite the fact that you and Chriliman would be viewing reality differently, the truth of the matter is that Chriliman still exists, assuming that humans are eternal beings of course.

This was his point.

So he is just "assuming" a different perspective? Yet he said "from my perspective"?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right.

Now assume that Chriliman has a spirit/soul that can never die i.e that is eternal. While those who are restricted to observing only those things which are visible to the human eye would see a dead body, Chriliman, would be experiencing reality differently.

Despite the fact that you and Chriliman would be viewing reality differently, the truth of the matter is that Chriliman still exists, assuming that humans are eternal beings of course.

This was his point.

Perhaps I misunderstood then.

 

[anonymous person]

So he is just "assuming" a different perspective? Yet he said "from my perspective"?

Chriliman sees reality differently than Ana even though there is one reality. That's the point. I think we all can agree.

 

[Ana the Ist]

For instance it may be a fact that I'm alive and then it becomes a fact that I'm dead(from your perspective), but this has no affect on the truth about my existence(from my perspective).

I'm not trying to preach to you, I'm just trying to explain why I believe what I believe. If you're not interested that's fine, I'm not forcing you to ask questions.

You realize that it's "true" that you haven't always existed though...you agree there was a time you didn't exist, don't you?

So why would you assume that you always exist? It would be logical to assume that since you didn't exist before, there can/will be a point when you don't exist again.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Chriliman sees reality differently than Ana even though there is one reality. That's the point. I think we all can agree.

I see what you're saying...but going back and reading it again, it looks like he's saying something else.

I'm willing to accept that he just worded it poorly.

 

[bhsmte]

Chriliman sees reality differently than Ana even though there is one reality. That's the point. I think we all can agree.

I think it is commonly known, people can perceive reality differently, because everyone sees reality, through their own personal psyche.

The most interesting part though, is seeing how people justify their conclusions about reality.

 

[anonymous person]

You realize that it's "true" that you haven't always existed though...you agree there was a time you didn't exist, don't you?

So why would you assume that you always exist? It would be logical to assume that since you didn't exist before, there can/will be a point when you don't exist again.

We believe we will live forever because God said so.

I see no reason to think that just because I came into existence at some point in the finite past that therefore it logically follows that I will cease to exist at some point in the future.

 

[Chriliman]

Your perspective has no effect on reality. Just because you think you'll exist eternally doesn't make it so.

Right back at ya. Your perspective has no effect on what is true. Just because you think it's true that you'll non-exist doesn't make it so. Non-existence as true is impossible to know so why believe it?

It would be like me telling you that it's true that I can fly just using my body, but I'm not going to demonstrate this truth so you can know, but you should believe it anyway.

Non-existence should be demonstrably true if I'm going to believe that is where I'm headed when I die, otherwise I have no reason to believe I'll non-exist after I die.

Existence after death would reasonably only be demonstrated after one dies.

 

[Chriliman]

Right.

Now assume that Chriliman has a spirit/soul that can never die i.e that is eternal. While those who are restricted to observing only those things which are visible to the human eye would see a dead body, Chriliman, would be experiencing reality differently.

Despite the fact that you and Chriliman would be viewing reality differently, the truth of the matter is that Chriliman still exists, assuming that humans are eternal beings of course.

This was his point.

Yes, thanks.

 

[Chriliman]

You realize that it's "true" that you haven't always existed though...you agree there was a time you didn't exist, don't you?

So why would you assume that you always exist? It would be logical to assume that since you didn't exist before, there can/will be a point when you don't exist again.

Of course I realize that. I don't think I eternaly exist, I have a beginning but no end.

Only God eternaly exists.

 

[Chriliman]

So he is just "assuming" a different perspective? Yet he said "from my perspective"?

I would have to assume the perspective of death because I'm not dead yet.

 

[DaisyDay]

Its reasonable because existence is likely all we can know. One can never know non-existence, therefore, its unreasonable to believe non-existence is possible, its more likely to believe existence is all there is, forever.

Do you then believe that you have always existed?

You've seen babies that didn't previously exist, come to exist and other people who did exist, cease to exist. Are you unable to infer your own previous and eventual non-existence from this?

ETA: Nevermind - I see now that you've already gone over this and do not infer your own eventual non-existence from your previous non-existence even though you accept your previous non-existence. But do you see how others do make that inference?

 

[Chriliman]

Do you then believe that you have always existed?

You've seen babies that didn't previously exist, come to exist and other people who did exist, cease to exist. Are you unable to infer your own previous and eventual non-existence from this?

I believe I have a beginning but no end so no I don't eternaly exist, only God eternaly exists and he created my existence.

 

[DaisyDay]

I believe I have a beginning but no end so no I don't eternaly exist, only God eternaly exists and he created my existence.

Sorry, I edited my post after I saw that you had gone over this.

Btw - Freodin's supposed contradiction - you were going to show that?

 

[Chriliman]

Sorry, I edited my post after I saw that you had gone over this.

Btw - Freodin's supposed contradiction - you were going to show that?

No problem about the edit. I already linked to where I showed his contradiction, did you see that?

In summary, he thinks he perfectly exists and can't give any reason as to why his perfect existence would contradict itself and cease to exist.