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NDEs - Relevant or not so much?

NZEN

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NDEs or Near Death experiences - A good thing to search for on google (Since I can't yet post links).

Near death experiences tend to be vivid consist mainly of a bright light, overwhelming feelings of love and acceptance, and various elements from one's fantasy or culture, along with much escaping from Hell, if one indeed goes there. Another common element is one's life flashing before one's eyes, with ample experiencing one's effects on others and feeling other people's emotions.

The thing about NDEs is they tend to contradict the bible (Or at least many people's interpretation of the bible), and if people don't believe in an afterlife they generally end up convinced that there is one.

In any case, studying NDEs, even if you absolutely don't believe in an afterlife, should make death seem like much less of a bad thing.

The main question about NDEs is, are they relevant to the afterlife (or lack thereof), and, if not, what more relevant clues do we have?
 

JYJ

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NDE's, when authentic, are little insights to what we can expect after our bodies die. No Christian should have a problem with life after death. I mean heaven or hell cannot be appreciated unless one is still alive and conscious. Yes. We all go through what NDE people report after we die. Of course there is much more. First we have to travel a bit to get away from the earth and into the spiritual dimension. That is what the tunnel is all about. Think "wormhole" to heaven. Then we have a period of adjustment wherein we get used to idea of no longer having bodies. After that we review our lives and this is the tough part for some. Yes there is a judgment but we are allowed to participate in this so that we can learn.

Important note. The religious teachings are designed for the kinds of humans who need little incentives before they will be good. That is why sin and hell is so often the topic of sermons. The reality of heaven is not quite that way.

But getting back to NDE's. Yes when truthfully reported they reflect reality.

last note: When science attempts to explain them in terms of the physical brain they find how impossible that is and so try to recover a fumble by saying something that any child can see through. There is much much more to life than what is told about in the Bible. Don't forget that there were 11 surviving disciples, some of whom we know little of. They had much to say but, for some reason, men decided the Bible could do without their teachings. So the Bible is hardly a complete work regarding the Word of God.
 
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Antarctika

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Problem is we have no way of being sure NDEs reflect what happen after truely dieing. I think they should be taken into consideration obviously, but one should remain humble.

Also, from the NDE experiences ive read about, the moment where people review their life is not painful at all. Can you give links?

Amusingly, if NDEs are reflections of what actually happens after death, then every religion is wrong.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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I'm told that certain drugs allow you to feel at one with the universe, If we consider those are relevant then sure NDE's are too.

There is no reason to suppose that what happens during an NDE is real in the sense that it actually happens that way after you die. But It is certainly real in the sense that you are experiencing something (Drug trip or otherwise).
Maybe it really is a glimpse at the afterlife, but so far there's no reason the suppose it is.

I am reminded alot of alien abduction really, the people have the same kind of stories so we can reasonably assume they experienced something but that does not nessisarily mean there are actual gray aliens rearprobing people. It could be true, but there is no reason to suppose there are.
 
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Received

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Im skeptical too, but it would be nice if that's what awaits us.At least that would be consistent with the idea of a loving God.

I think i'd annoy him with an overwhelming load of questions though. : d

lol. Which brings me to the point of the best reason against's God's existence: having to answer all you rattling skeptics for eternity. ;)
 
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JYJ

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Problem is we have no way of being sure NDEs reflect what happen after truely dieing. I think they should be taken into consideration obviously, but one should remain humble.

Also, from the NDE experiences ive read about, the moment where people review their life is not painful at all. Can you give links?

Amusingly, if NDEs are reflections of what actually happens after death, then every religion is wrong.



That's right friend. Every religion is wrong. Don't forget religions are man made and based upon prophetic teaching. They serve us best by providing a means to develop the discipline necessary so we can live a good life. This is best done by using the carrot and stick of sin and punishment. It's OK. Most people respond better to that approach.
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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That's right friend. Every religion is wrong. Don't forget religions are man made and based upon prophetic teaching. They serve us best by providing a means to develop the discipline necessary so we can live a good life. This is best done by using the carrot and stick of sin and punishment. It's OK. Most people respond better to that approach.
Are you being sarcastic or serious?
It's alittle hard to tell sometimes over the internet.
 
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NZEN

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I'm disinclined to trust the random misfirings of a dying, oxygen-deprived brain. NDEs demonstrate a whole load of nothing.
Your statement is highly questionable; NDEs are too consistent to be random.

Once you start tampering with the brain, consider your concept of perception to be false.
It seems to me that by this logic, once you're dead there is no "True" perception.

By extension I deduce that your definition of "True" is limited to the physical universe; After death, if you survive, you will have to rethink what "real" is.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Your statement is highly questionable; NDEs are too consistent to be random.
Consistency and randomness are not mutually exclusive. If NDEs are mundane phenomena (and not supernatural visions of the afterlife), then they are caused by one (or a few) physical processes. That they're caused by the same thing would imply that they're at least broadly similar in experience.

And, again, I'm disinclined to trust the random firings of an oxygen-deprived brain. If you can provide evidence that NDEs are more than just that, be my guest.
 
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JYJ

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Are you being sarcastic or serious?
It's alittle hard to tell sometimes over the internet.


It is never a good idea to mock the beliefs of others. No. I was serious with my comment regarding the veracity of Christian theology. I do sincerely believe that human beings are created as souls in heaven in a condition of innocence and from there embark upon a series of lifetimes in human bodies, each one a different personality and embedded in a different culture so that all the lessons that the earth setting can teach can be learned. To this end, good bad, fat thin, ugly good looking, rich or poor, black or yellow or red or whatever or white.... All the lessons that humanity has to offer are included in these "classrooms".

The reason that Christianity does not teach this is because first it is not necessary to know in order to progress. It is much better that people are taught about sin and punishment so they will pay attention and stay on the correct path in life. Teaching the other has, in centuries past, had the effect of people getting the idea that they could play around while here and have a good time because they could make up for it later. It is easy to see the truthfulness of this. It was a common practice in a time of ancient China that people would incur a debt promising to repay in the next life. See why it is kept secret? So the Christian teaching is the better approach for this time in the experience of humanity. But there is a problem here too.

The newest Christian twist to ancient Christianity is the business regarding being born again. It's OK that people participate in this ceremonial because they otherwise might not be able to have some clear turning point in their lives. Does it matter if it is only a certain sub set of protestant churches that teach this? Not in the slightest. Fact is that the various orthodox and Roman church has had established sacraments (as they call them) which addressed the very same ideas. Now sometimes I hear that one is only a real Christian from the time when, as an adult, they "give their lives to Jesus, Lord and Savior". I have been told that Catholics, for instance, are not real Christians because they do not do this. This, is an example of the "wrongness" that I think of when I say that "all religions are wrong". Wrong because it constitutes separative teaching rather than inclusive and loving.

The Word of God is modified by the emotional workings of the smaller mind of man. It always has been and until we approach perfection it will continue to be thus. If this were not true then all Christians would refuse to use any but the most original version of the Bible which came into being when Constintine converted to Christianity after winning a major victory, brought together the leading authorities of the day, decided what the content of the Bible would be and finally ordered 50 copies as a new beginning. This was the first codified "benchmark" work that we call the Bible. Most other religions would never think of changing their scriptures but Christians have done so many times over the years.

Note: It is of interest to know that when Islam claims that the Bible is "corrupted" they are saying that they know about all the times that Holy Book was edited. They ask, "who dares to change the Word of God"? They do not understand how this could happen. The Quran today is exactly the same as the very first one and will never be changed. The Muslims are in agreement with most of what Christianity teaches but this is one great exception. Like it or not this is a true bit of our history. We seem to forget our own flaws sometimes. Pity.

So are the American believers incorrect in their practice of Christianity. No. All that really matters from the viewpoint of the Father is that we all endeavour to follow the teachings of Jesus during His ministry. Those were exemplified in the Sermon on the Mount. The emphases which is placed today on belief and obedience is best when they are understood that cooperation with God is the highest and best path a man can take.

I believe that there will be a time when all religions, especially the three great Abrahamic, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, will reconcile and join hands in worship of God. What a happy day this will be for the whole world. If we can manage this we will have proven to God that we have become adults in spirit. Jesus is about to return and when He does He will teach this idea I believe. Imagine the power possible when the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Quran are combined. Think of those future possibilities and then remember what we have in the world today. Religious strife, anger, intolerance, insistence that only one way is correct etc...etc. We need to stop being fools and listen to God for a change.

My beliefs are the result of a life time of study...

Assalamu Alikum....God Bless us all....Shalom

Sorry for the length here. That is one thing I can't seem to help.
 
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JYJ

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Consistency and randomness are not mutually exclusive. If NDEs are mundane phenomena (and not supernatural visions of the afterlife), then they are caused by one (or a few) physical processes. That they're caused by the same thing would imply that they're at least broadly similar in experience.

And, again, I'm disinclined to trust the random firings of an oxygen-deprived brain. If you can provide evidence that NDEs are more than just that, be my guest.



Many NDE have reported "floating upward to other parts of the hospital and listening in on conversations that were thought to be private". Some of these have been verified as authentic. There is no mis-firing of the brain that could result in these phenomena. Any critic who claims to have a statement regarding NDE should take the trouble to study all of them and find out about things like this. Why they ignore or do not study is anyone's guess. Humans tend to be selfish and inflexible with opinions. We all know that is true.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Many NDE have reported "floating upward to other parts of the hospital and listening in on conversations that were thought to be private". Some of these have been verified as authentic.
Can you cite these authentications?

There is no mis-firing of the brain that could result in these phenomena.
Sure there is.

Any critic who claims to have a statement regarding NDE should take the trouble to study all of them and find out about hings like this. Why they ignore or do not study is anyone's guess. Humans tend to be selfish and inflexible with opinions. We all know that is true.
The irony, of course, is that you perform the same dismissal of sceptics: you dismiss sceptics as people who haven't gone to the trouble to study NDEs. How, exactly, do you know I haven't analysed the same data as you and simply come to a different conclusion?
 
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Received

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What do you mean?

Joking, of course. I meant that if God doesn't exist, it's because He chose to take the easy way out from answering skeptics. I.e., skeptics make excellent rational demands.
 
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