Name one doctrine that is not supported by Scripture.

[Gregory Thompson]

Ah. Yes please. I would like to read it.

So in the liturgy, we have the bishop blessing us and calling us the vine. We are the vine that the right hand of the Lord God has planted. And therefore we are supposed to bring forth fruit. We are the vineyard that is supposed to bring forth fruit according to the psalmist.
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus/jesus_-_the_true_vine

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

You know you're my favorite person on CF, right?
There's something about you baiting me that keeps me sharp.
Never change your trollish ways my friend.

Let's see. 2.5 Billion Christian, you named 220 million. Easy math (less than 10%, virtually all Christians.

The scripture you cited say NOTHING about the Filioque. All you posted is scripture that says there is a Holy Spirit.

Fact is, SS people by in large accept Rome's definition, without scriptural backup. ouch!

 

[RDKirk]

Here's the problem with calling Mary the Mother of God.
When we refer to God, we usually mean God Father, or Yahweh.
God, Yahweh, did not have a mother - God always existed and there was no being before Him.

If we mean Jesus, the Word Incarnate, and we know that He is God,,,then it would seem to be correct.
Except we really don't mean Jesus, do we?

I like to say that Mary is the Mother of Jesus,,,Mother of The Word - or the 2nd person of the Trinity.

Comment?

I think there are distinctions to be made until we run into a wall beyond which we cannot see and can only guess.

The Triune God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three Persons of one Substance.

But Jesus, the Son Incarnate, is both God and yet created human flesh. That created human flesh was certainly born of the woman Mary. But that created human flesh is not all of what the Son had been and now is again, nor is that created human flesh comprehensive of the Father and the Holy Spirit. At least that's not a proposition I can wrap my own head around, nor does scripture seem to support that Jesus, within His created human flesh, is comprehensive of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did, after all, pray to the Father, not to Himself. And He did after all speak of the Holy Spirit as One who would come after He had left.

And yet--this is the wall beyond which I cannot see--I will assent that Jesus is fully man and fully God.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Good morning!
Returning to this.

Let's see. 2.5 Billion Christian, you named 220 million. Easy math (less than 10%, virtually all Christians.

I didn't cite these numbers so that we can base right theology off of them. I cited them to make you aware that they have a voice too.

The scripture you cited say NOTHING about the Filioque. All you posted is scripture that says there is a Holy Spirit.

No. I posted Scripture addressing the procession of that Spirit. The only real disagreement here between East and West is whether these verses apply to his procession in an economy sense or in an ontological sense.

Fact is, SS people by in large accept Rome's definition, without scriptural backup. ouch!

As I've said elsewhere, all Christians have inherited the patrimony of the Fathers. That is not the issue. The issue is, did the Fathers see Trinitology as an extra-Biblical tradition? No, they did not. They employed Scripture.

I think that you're hung up on the word 'alone', but alone doesn't mean 'naked'. It has more the sense of, 'apart from...'. Like, how we say, 'Christ alone', but we acknowledge that he is surrounded by his saints and his Father and the Holy Spirit. Or we say, 'Grace alone', but we acknowledge freewill. Or the controversial, 'Faith alone', yet we acknowledge that faith without works is dead.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

But that is just simply not true, if it was the Church would never have be able to cite Scripture in defense of the Trinity.

Scripture speaks about Yahweh/El (the source of Divinity, whom we know as Father), his Spirit or Breath and Wisdom/Word. The latter appears as both the Angel of the Lord and the Son of Man. Elohim (plural form of El) is attributed to God as well as 'gods'.

QUOTE="Oompa Loompa, post: 76292478, member: 428612"]Yes, nowhere does the Bible say there is one God in three persons.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I wonder if the Holy Spirit is fickle. Evidently, the HS is inspiring some SS denominations to teach their members to interpret scripture to say that Mary is the Mother of God and denominations He is inspiring them to teach their members to interpret scripture to say she is not.

Answer: The Holy Spirit is not fickle. This is the perfect example and proof that SS fails at the most basic level.

What's an SS denomination?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Explain this please:

If they're the same person,,,then 1/3 of the Trinity was missing when Jesus was born....

I think you need to read post 104 again.....

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I think you need to read post 104 again.....

Are you saying that he was localized?

 

[concretecamper]

You know you're my favorite person on CF, right?
There's something about you baiting me that keeps me sharp.
Never change your trollish ways my friend.

facts are facts. Let's never lose sight of that!

 

[concretecamper]

No. I posted Scripture addressing the procession of that Spirit

no you did not.

As I've said elsewhere, all Christians have inherited the patrimony of the Fathers

Sacred Tradition. It's just as important as scripture. Thank you for making that point!

I think that you're hung up on the word 'alone',

SS Christians are hung up on it. I'm just holding them accountable. And buy forcing them to use Scripture "alone", many holes in their beliefs are brought to light. And if I can get one person to recognize the error, I am happy!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Let's see. 2.5 Billion Christian, you named 220 million. Easy math (less than 10%, virtually all Christians.)

Athanasius contra mundum

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Nah. You don't know what you're talking about. Sorry dude. We've been over this ad naseum. Until you stop punching a paper tiger, I might bow out. I haven't decided as I love arguing with you and appreciate your posts. But going over the same stuff is boring. I'm thinking we should pick a new topic to argue about. Maybe you'll do better.

no you did not.
Sacred Tradition. It's just as important as scripture. Thank you for making that point!
SS Christians are hung up on it. I'm just holding them accountable. And buy forcing them to use Scripture "alone", many holes in their beliefs are brought to light. And if I can get one person to recognize the error, I am happy!

That's not your job. You're going to kill over trying to do that. Don't worry about other people, just focus on yourself; your comprehension skills, your debate tactics, ect. This isn't a crusade. We have a common Savior and hopefully are going to the same place.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Are you saying that he was localized?

No.
Jesus was on earth.
And the second Person of the Trinity stayed in heaven, or in God, or however you understand that.

I think you said you agree...

 

[concretecamper]

Nah. You don't know what you're talking about

I know precisely what I'm talking about. All you have to do is read the exchange about Mary the Mother of God to see I am right in my conclusion.

Until you stop punching a paper tiger, I might bow out

your choice.

But going over the same stuff is boring. I'm thinking we should pick a new topic to argue about. Maybe you'll do better.

When I recieve a coherent answer to my questions, we can move forward.

That's not your job. You're going to kill over trying to do that. Don't worry about other people, just focus on yourself; your comprehension skills, your debate tactics, ect. This isn't a crusade. We have a common Savior and hopefully are going to the same place

you worry about you, I'll worry about me.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

These facts:?

Weedon's Blog: Patristic Passages of Import to Lutheran Christians
QUOTE="concretecamper, post: 76294420, member: 343141"]facts are facts. Let's never lose sight of that![/QUOTE]

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

So long as you worrying about you doesn't include you trying to reform me, I'm good.

I'm trying my best not to worry about anyone.

6 ft.

PS, you're full of it my love. I have defended Mary as Theotokos. That you are lumping people outside your communion, together is a logical and historical fallacy.
This is your story: Luther broke off from the true Church. A bunch of people followed him. But they started bickering over how to interpret the Bible. They broke off from each other and they're now thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of diverging denominations.

No, Concrete. Just no.

I know precisely what I'm talking about. All you have to do is read the exchange about Mary the Mother of God to see I am write in my conclusion.
your choice.
When I recieve a coherent answer to my questions, we can move forward.
you worry about you, I'll worry about me.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

The second person of the Trinity is both in heaven and on earth. That is why Mary is called, 'more spacious than the heavens and more glorious than the cherubim', because she contains the one whom heaven cannot contain. In her, true God assumes flesh. Assume is a very important word here. Flesh was taken up and united to the Godhead through the 2nd person. This has soteriological implications. It's why Theosis (Mystical Union) is true, grace alone is true and Christ is substantially present in the Eucharist:
The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord - Book of Concord

No.
Jesus was on earth.
And the second Person of the Trinity stayed in heaven, or in God, or however you understand that.

I think you said you agree...

 

[concretecamper]

Luther broke off from the true Church. A bunch of people followed him. But they started bickering over how to interpret the Bible. They broke off from each other and they're now thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of diverging denominations.

the most accurate post you've made in responding to me.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So long as you worrying about you doesn't include you trying to reform me, I'm good.

I'm trying my best not to worry about anyone.

6 ft.

PS, you're full of it my love. I have defended Mary as Theotokos. That you are lumping people outside your communion, together is a logical and historical fallacy.
This is your story: Luther broke off from the true Church. A bunch of people followed him. But they started bickering over how to interpret the Bible. They broke off from each other and they're now thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of diverging denominations.

No, Concrete. Just no.

Re your PS, I have to agree with @concretecamper .
How would You explain the reformation?

Also I asked someone what SS means with no reply.
Could you tell me please?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

It's wrong. I've been trying to correct you. But you are being trollish
Luther didn't break off from the Catholic Church. He was condemned for condemning Tetzel whom the Pope supported. That was his first condemnation. Up until that time, Luther was a supporter of the Papacy. Do you think that the Pope was right to support Tetzel? No one has broken off from the Lutheran Church. We are not the progenitors of the Anglicans, Calvinists, Wesleyans, or Anabaptists. Prove that we are and you have your case otherwise---ARGH!

the most accurate post you've made in responding to me.