Name one doctrine that is not supported by Scripture.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

What didn't take long? I can give you reasons why the West believes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son and reasons why the East disagrees. The Lutheran Church which says, all doctrine should conform to Scripture, has not officially come down one side or the other. How is this a denial of SS for the Lutheran Church? If I gave you the Western opinion or even my own, it would not be the official position of my Church.

That didnt take long. Seems like the doctrine concerning the Fillioque isnt supported by scripture. You keep referencing Athanasius. Can you please tell me where the doctrine of the Fillioque is supported by scripture.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed: "And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. Begotten, not made: consubstantial with the Father; by Whom all things were made."

It doesn't say BORN
It says BEGOTTEN

Begotten just means unique.

 

[GodsGrace101]

He was born (begotten) of the Father from all eternity: Light from Light, true God from true God; Begotten not made.

You sound pretty intelligent..

Surely you know that begotten does not mean born.

 

[concretecamper]

What didn't take long?

to prove the OP wrong

why the West believes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son

that is not what the West teaches.

reasons why the East disagrees.

I disagree with what you said the West teaches too.

The Lutheran Church which says, all doctrine should conform to Scripture, has not officially come down one side or the other

really? Ok. Support either the West or the East side using only scripture.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

In the Greek, I believe that born is correct, but I could be wrong. Let me reference. Brb.

You sound pretty intelligent..

Surely you know that begotten does not mean born.

 

[Abaxvahl]

It doesn't say BORN
It says BEGOTTEN

Begotten just means unique.

Read again. And begotten doesn't mean "unique" at all.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

to prove the OP wrong
that is not what the West teaches.
I disagree with what you said the West teaches too.
really? Ok. Support either the West or the East side using only scripture.

Ok. Give me a bit. I'm trying to find a reference for someone else.
You don't confess: who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and adore?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Read again. And begotten doesn't mean "unique" at all.

First, in the council of 481 it was decided that the creed of Nicea in 325 was the correct wording, not the wording of Constantinople in 425.

Second, again if the 2nd person of the Trinity was born,,,He is not equal to the Father but only the same in nature.

 

[concretecamper]

You don't confess: who proceeds from the Father and the Son

yes. But that is not what you originally claimed the West teaches.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Read again. And begotten doesn't mean "unique" at all.

Please explain what begotten means.

 

[Abaxvahl]

First, in the council of 481 it was decided that the creed of Nicea in 325 was the correct wording, not the wording of Constantinople in 425.

Second, again if the 2nd person of the Trinity was born,,,He is not equal to the Father but only the same in nature.

On the contrary, that He was eternally generated (or born) proves He has the same nature as the Father for no father has generated a person with a different nature than himself. No dog has given birth to a giraffe. And moreover the Councils are infallible and inerrant so it doesn't really matter which I cite, but I cited the Creed read at Church every Sunday which is certainly authoritative.

 

[GodsGrace101]

On the contrary, that He was eternally generated (or born) proves He has the same nature as the Father for no father has generated a person with a different nature than himself. No dog has given birth to a giraffe. And moreover the Councils are infallible and inerrant so it doesn't really matter which I cite, but I cited the Creed read at Church every Sunday which is certainly authoritative.

Oh for goodness sake....I said the same nature.
Study the creeds some more...
Good night.

 

[GodsGrace101]

On the contrary, that He was eternally generated (or born) proves He has the same nature as the Father for no father has generated a person with a different nature than himself. No dog has given birth to a giraffe. And moreover the Councils are infallible and inerrant so it doesn't really matter which I cite, but I cited the Creed read at Church every Sunday which is certainly authoritative.

And you still have to explain what begotten means.

Tomorrow.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Ok. Give me a bit. I'm trying to find a reference for someone else.
You don't confess: who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and adore?

No hurry Thatgirl.
In the meantime, read my post no. 48.
'Night.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

It doesn't say BORN
It says BEGOTTEN

Begotten just means unique.

No. Begotten means begotten.
John 1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Oh for goodness sake....I said the same nature.
Study the creeds some more...
Good night.

Goodnight, but I remind you of St. John Chrysostom:

"If any one say that the Father is greater, inasmuch as He is the cause of the Son, we will not contradict this. But this does not by any means make the Son to be of a different Essence." Amen the Father is greater.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

And you still have to explain what begotten means.

Tomorrow.

The best I can do is Strong's unless someone here knows Greek.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Goodnight, but I remind you of St. John Chrysostom:

"If any one say that the Father is greater, inasmuch as He is the cause of the Son, we will not contradict this. But this does not by any means make the Son to be of a different Essence." Amen the Father is greater.

Who said He was?
You don't seem to understand that I'm saying they're the same!

 

[GodsGrace101]

The best I can do is Strong's unless someone here knows Greek.

Did you read post 48?
You don't need to know Greek.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Who said He was?
You don't seem to understand that I'm saying they're the same!

I understand now that you are saying they are of the same essence, I am merely saying that the Father eternally generated the Son, which in the Fathers is also called an "eternal birth" and so on. It is not wrong to say He was born, for "begotten" is like "beget" like "David beget Solomon." Immediately after only-begotten in the Creed it says "born of the Father before all ages." The Father is greater than the Son in the sense of generating/begetting Him.