Name change at my church

[Albion]

I know anglican churches that have actually split over this issue.

New Zealand Anglican churches, I presume.

 

[FredVB]

'transformation' minsitries?
Never heard of it. sounds like a 'trans' church lol.
Well, FYI, in my country one of the issues has been same sex marriages and the churches stance on it. We do have baptist churches that are in areas highly populated by the gay community. In those areas, the churches may of course have members who struggle with homosexuality and sin in their lives (more so than other areas) but they are still baptist churches.
other churches may not have the same issues.
In america it may be different, because of the highly visible anti-gay protests of SOME baptist churches. Also we don't have many IFB type churches here. They are a bit extreme and also imho have some weird theology.

This Transformation Ministries is the group of churches that were Baptist which had split from the American Baptist churches with objecting to tolerance of homosexual people among the American Baptist churches. This was several years before I started coming to this church, I would have been at the previous Baptist church I attended then, not hearing of this, and that one was Independent Baptist. Now though this country has given homosexual people great legal protection and there is little right here now to speak against it. So I guess I really won't hear much about this history now, I am not really hearing any speaking on homosexuality around here.

 

[Goodbook]

hmm ok.
maybe they want to be compassionate with people who are struggling with this issue.
I don't know. That really hasn't happened here in nz, baptists aren't all split up like that and I heard that with same-sex marriage legislation, baptists here haven't compromised on their biblical stance. Baptist ministers agree not to marry same-sex couples in their churches. There was a recent council meeting amongst the leaders about this.

Anglican church in contrast has split over this issue, I know the one down the road from us, their minister left the church and went to a new one, and the people weren't happy left, but others stayed and I think they allow something like a blessing of same-sex unions. apparently in the family, they have practicing homosexuals, so, if they don't allow it, they would be splitting up their own families, and some of them are actually in ordained positions in their churches. I don't know how or why...but that does happen.

the presys, I think hold to conservative views but less vocal about it than baptists. I remember attending a presy church and one of the pastors turning a blind eye to his own son cross dressing in a church christmas production..mocking females...so..I don't know. Or maybe he did talk to him about that afterward. But they certainly were into theatricals at the presy.

 

[Goodbook]

I'm just looking at the website.
It seems like what I thought...

here is the biblical convictions. Nothing wrong with it I see.

http://transmin.org/who-we-are/biblical-convictions

maybe the churches that aren't joining in this ministry are the ones who are trying to say they are not baptist anymore. I don't know.

 

[FredVB]

I'm just looking at the website.
It seems like what I thought...
here is the biblical convictions. Nothing wrong with it I see.
http://transmin.org/who-we-are/biblical-convictions
maybe the churches that aren't joining in this ministry are the ones who are trying to say they are not baptist anymore. I don't know.

It has been some time now. I also see there is nothing wrong with the gospel they present. There might be better equipping of those in the church for them to spread the gospel yet more, but this could be said of very many churches, I guess. But in all this time, in church services, there is never any mention of the term "Baptist" anymore, after the change, there has been a small handful of incidents I have heard certain individuals use that term in isolated circumstances, I think those may have just been slips that weren't intended, with the history our church had as a Baptist church. The issue I see with this Baptist identity is that a number of churches listed at that site, in the Transformation Ministries, which is alleged to be the churches that were breaking away from the American Baptist churches, do not use the term "Baptist" in their names. So there isn't the way I can say for any certainty that I go to a Baptist church. There is much overlap there with nondenominational Christian churches as far as I can see from what I know. What is there still that I can say I am Baptist, when nothing is left identified as Baptist that I identify with?

 

[Goodbook]

I dont know, have they stopped baptising believers?

 

[FredVB]

I dont know, have they stopped baptising believers?

No, there is still baptism of believers, for certain they were having this for believers last Easter. But this does not have Baptists distinct from any others. When I was baptized, as a believer, ultimately, it was while I was with another church, and I hadn't attended a Baptist church yet. I was a Christian believer, and I am now, I don't think of myself as Baptist, except I agree with Baptist positions, and identify with Baptists with going to a Baptist church. It isn't clear at all that I do that now.

 

[Albion]

Hi. Fred. Because this continues to bother and perplex you--which I can well appreciate--I spent a little while poking around websites and statements of beliefs, the "about us" sections of the church pages, and so on.

I must say that while I have no suggestions to offer you, the TM movement is no different (from what I can tell) from a number of other non-denominational efforts. Like them, it probably will most likely become nearly invisible on the American church scene for the same reason it's happened to the others. That is to say, using a generic name and coupling that with a statement of belief that is so watered down in order to avoid anything that even looks denominational or controversial leaves almost nothing that rings any bells with anyone looking for a home church. It can appeal to the unchurched, it's true, but that's about all.

 

[Goodbook]

Not sure what your problem is.
Sorry.
Your identity is with Christ, not a denomination. If the church you go to is not baptist in name then dont say you go to a baptist church then.

I dont go round saying 'im baptist' all the time. I just say I belong to Jesus and am christs ambasaddor, its not a problem for me....

Most christian churches operate like baptist churches anyway even if they arent baptist in name, if they baptise believers and believe Gods word than thats good. The only other thing distinctive about some baptist churches, and there are different kinda even amongst baptists, is free will - our ability to choose.

This is opposes to some churches that have rules and obligations on its church members that they cant do this or that if they belong here or there, or they assume they an elect group over everyone else.

 

[FredVB]

Albion, there are cases enough in which the gospel of salvation in Christ is diluted, apparently so easily. I can see a trend toward this, even with the name making some difference for it, so that there is not offense to those who might consider coming but who otherwise wouldn't. The messages lean slightly more to the other emphasis that the new name of it emphasizes.

Goodbook, I have identified myself as Christian all along through my life, as a believer, in only the more recent years with being in a Baptist church, as I agree so much with Baptist beliefs, but as my Christian position, I identify with Baptists, such that I am even encouraged to post in this forum, but now it is in question.