Name a doctrine that you used to believe in but dont anymore.

[Tzaousios]

False.

Then demonstrate how it works in your understanding. What is with all of the pithy one-worders?

 

[Knee V]

False.

True.

False.

True.

False.

ad nauseum

 

[Pteriax]

Then demonstrate how it works in your understanding. What is with all of the pithy one-worders?

He is claiming something about me that I did not say, and which is false. Therefore: False. Period.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then demonstrate how it works in your understanding. What is with all of the pithy one-worders?

It has the advantage of increasing one's post count as fast as possible

 

[sonshine234]

Then demonstrate how it works in your understanding. What is with all of the pithy one-worders?

He can't say anything else

 

[Tzaousios]

He is claiming something about me that I did not say, and which is false. Therefore: False. Period.

So what. Tell us all how you think it works so that assumptions or even guesses do not have to be made.

 

[Knee V]

He is claiming something about me that I did not say, and which is false. Therefore: False. Period.

It's not a statement about *you*. It's a statement about the reformational system as a whole.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Tzaousios

Then demonstrate how it works in your understanding. What is with all of the pithy one-worders?
​

It has the advantage of increasing one's post count as fast as possible

Never thought of it that way.....add 1 more post to my already humongous post count

 

[Knee V]

It's not a statement about *you*. It's a statement about the reformational system as a whole.

Any use of the word "you" was meant to be generic, and was not meant to be personal. Forgive me if it came across that way.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

If we assume that the Reformed understanding of "grace" is valid, then I could understand your misunderstanding. But it is not, and it should be abandoned.

I used to believe in grace little, til God brought me around to grace BIG. Grace little's emphasis is on little man, while grace BIG emphasis is on a BIG God.

 

[Pteriax]

So what. Tell us all how you think it works so that assumptions or even guesses do not have to be made.

A sacramental system is not Biblical because it is not taught in the Bible. A sacramental system is not the same as grace. God is responsible for grace, while man is responsible for a sacramental system. Salvation is by grace alone. You cannot do anything to "help God out" not even a little bit. Something is Biblical if the Bible teaches it, not because of anything else. It has nothing to do with my understanding or yours. Truth is not relative, it is absolute. When a church makes a doctrine, makes that doctrine long and complex, and then bases it on a few words of the Bible twisted out of context, then it is not a Biblical doctrine. Period. The Catholic church fell out of communion with God a long time ago. If anyone who is Catholic is saved, it is DESPITE their church, not because of it. Communion doesn't save. Confession to a priest doesn't save. Confirmation does not save. Marriage does not save. Holy orders do not save. Last rites do not save. Baptism does not save. Penance does not save. God saves. God and God alone saves. Not God and the sacraments and decrees of the church. God alone. By grace through faith. None may reach the Father but through Jesus, and not may reach Jesus except that the Father draw them to Him. Nothing about what you have to do, only what God in His sovereign power and authority chooses to do. This is Biblical. Sacraments are not.
= Biblical.
= not Biblical.
How plain does it have to be? There is one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ - how plain is that? Does it say anything about a priesthood or a pope? No? Huh. Wonder why. OH, RIGHT! The priesthood has passed away and been replaced by Jesus the Christ! DUH! We all have equal access to Jesus! Isn't that amazing! He loves us so much that He won't let us go through imperfect men anymore, but we can all go directly to Him!

Is this clear enough for you?

 

[Pteriax]

It's not a statement about *you*. It's a statement about the reformational system as a whole.

Since I am reformed, that would include me. And it's still false.

 

[Pteriax]

Any use of the word "you" was meant to be generic, and was not meant to be personal. Forgive me if it came across that way.

It did come across that way, however such things do not bother me. It is impossible at times to avoid it on forums. I see this as a friendly debate, and there will be no hard feelings on my end. SO as far as I am concerned there is nothing to forgive.

 

[Tzaousios]

Is this clear enough for you?

It basically self-validates your chosen interpretation of Scripture. That really was not very difficult to guess at the outset.

Why, however, does it lead you to conclude that non-Radical Reformation Protestants and Apostolic Christians do not believe that God saves them?

 

[MoreCoffee]

One gave up Protestantism

 

[Knee V]

A sacramental system is not Biblical because it is not taught in the Bible. A sacramental system is not the same as grace. God is responsible for grace, while man is responsible for a sacramental system. Salvation is by grace alone. You cannot do anything to "help God out" not even a little bit. Something is Biblical if the Bible teaches it, not because of anything else. It has nothing to do with my understanding or yours. Truth is not relative, it is absolute. When a church makes a doctrine, makes that doctrine long and complex, and then bases it on a few words of the Bible twisted out of context, then it is not a Biblical doctrine. Period. The Catholic church fell out of communion with God a long time ago. If anyone who is Catholic is saved, it is DESPITE their church, not because of it. Communion doesn't save. Confession to a priest doesn't save. Confirmation does not save. Marriage does not save. Holy orders do not save. Last rites do not save. Baptism does not save. Penance does not save. God saves. God and God alone saves. Not God and the sacraments and decrees of the church. God alone. By grace through faith. None may reach the Father but through Jesus, and not may reach Jesus except that the Father draw them to Him. Nothing about what you have to do, only what God in His sovereign power and authority chooses to do. This is Biblical. Sacraments are not.
= Biblical.
= not Biblical.
How plain does it have to be? There is one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ - how plain is that? Does it say anything about a priesthood or a pope? No? Huh. Wonder why. OH, RIGHT! The priesthood has passed away and been replaced by Jesus the Christ! DUH! We all have equal access to Jesus! Isn't that amazing! He loves us so much that He won't let us go through imperfect men anymore, but we can all go directly to Him!

Is this clear enough for you?

What is your understanding of what a "priest" is, in the sense of someone being ordainded a "priest"? It seems that you have a misunderstanding about that.

The "sacramental" nature of the Kingdom of God is all over the New Testament. Having been in your theological shoes earlier in my life, I understand why that is difficult to see.

 

[Going Merry]

Thats a good reason why I dont believe in catholicism etc.

popes!

 

[Pteriax]

It basically self-validates your chosen interpretation of Scripture. That really was not very difficult to guess at the outset.

Why, however, does it lead you to conclude that non-Radical Reformation Protestants and Apostolic Christians do not believe that God saves them?

Arminian theology vs Calvinist theology. Arminian teaches that You choose to get saved by your own act of faith. Calvinism teaches that God saves you by giving you that faith. So Arminians believe that they help God out a bit in their salvation. I don't believe that is supported scripturally and I do not believe it makes much sense logically.

 

[Pteriax]

What is your understanding of what a "priest" is, in the sense of someone being ordainded a "priest"? It seems that you have a misunderstanding about that.

Simply what the RCC teaches, in Trent and other documents. I understand that you are not Roman Catholic, so perhaps your understanding is different than theirs. I will admit I do not know as much about the other big 'C' denominations as I do the RCC.

 

[Knee V]

Arminian theology vs Calvinist theology. Arminian teaches that You choose to get saved by your own act of faith. Calvinism teaches that God saves you by giving you that faith. So Arminians believe that they help God out a bit in their salvation. I don't believe that is supported scripturally and I do not believe it makes much sense logically.

That is overly simplistic and inaccurate. I know that when one is Reformed, other non-Reformed points of view don't make any sense. But I can assure you that the Reformed caricatures of non-Reformed points of view seldom have any truth to them.