Naïve question: What is forbidden, what is allowed?

[Pink Spider]

Greetings.

Please excuse this naïve question.

Apart from the ten commandments - what is allowed
and what is forbidden?
If god is constantly watching and all wrongdoing is
noted and written down - it must be of utmost
importance to know what is allowed and what is
forbidden, in other words:

What pleases god - and what doesn't?

Take for example music. What kind of music pleases
god and what kind leads to hell?

 

[prov1810]

What pleases god - and what doesn't?

In terms of "rules" a good place to start is the 14th chapter of Romans. There are things or situations that might be tempting to one person, but not another.

Regarding music, a specific genre of music might be offensive to some people, based on personality or culture or their own way of being reverent. To other people, the same genre is appropriate for worship songs, and there's ALL kinds of worship music in Christianity. The Bible tells us to not judge one another in these matters (Rom. 14:10-13).

 

[bling]

Greetings.

Please excuse this naïve question.

Apart from the ten commandments - what is allowed
and what is forbidden?
If god is constantly watching and all wrongdoing is
noted and written down - it must be of utmost
importance to know what is allowed and what is
forbidden, in other words:

What pleases god - and what doesn't?

Take for example music. What kind of music pleases
god and what kind leads to hell?

Wow, what an interesting question.

God is not way off on some throne writing down all your actions to bring against you at judgment.

Think of God as a really Loving Parent, that only wants to help you, be with you, share with you, shower gifts on you and not get something from you (He got it all already).

If there are “rules” and if there are “consequences”, they are only there to help you be and become what you really want to be and become.

Most people think they would like to be God, but when they find out what being God is really like (totally unselfish, always serving others over self-interest, sacrificially helping others) it is not the God they want to be, but you see there is no other God to be?

Jesus shows us what God is like, so do you want to be like Jesus, because if you do, then you want to be like God is, and that is what God is wanting for you and will help you to become.

You are beginning a challenging adventuresome quest, so let’s not jump ahead and miss out on the fun of the quest. Let us get to know Jesus and see if we like Him.

 

[Pink Spider]

In terms of "rules" a good place to start is the 14th chapter of Romans. There are things or situations that might be tempting to one person, but not another.

Regarding music, a specific genre of music might be offensive to some people, based on personality or culture or their own way of being reverent. To other people, the same genre is appropriate for worship songs, and there's ALL kinds of worship music in Christianity. The Bible tells us to not judge one another in these matters (Rom. 14:10-13).

It also says in Rom. 14 that one does good if one
avoids putting stumbling blocks in the way for others
by what one eats or drinks (and by 'extrapolation' I
assume that's also valid for what one listens to).


So (sticking to the example) it would be bad to
listen to Punk, Death Metal and Goth music
(which I do) when someone is present who might
be offended.


Right?

 

[prov1810]

It also says in Rom. 14 that one does good if one
avoids putting stumbling blocks in the way for others
by what one eats or drinks (and by 'extrapolation' I
assume that's also valid for what one listens to).


So (sticking to the example) it would be bad to
listen to Punk, Death Metal and Goth music
(which I do) when someone is present who might
be offended.


Right?

OK, let's say a Christian is listening to music that contains violent or erotic language. To him, he just likes the music, and that's fine for him. But someone else might hear this and maybe they're looking for an excuse for having a hateful attitude, or for not being self-controlled in their sexuality. It might be a new believer who just doesn't know what's appropriate. Paul is saying that we have to be sensitive about how our choices are affecting others.

BTW, since you brought up Punk.. Siouxsie and the Banshees are my favorite rock group of all time. They were brilliant, IMO. That doesn't mean I endorse every lyric.

 

[abysmul]

It also says in Rom. 14 that one does good if one
avoids putting stumbling blocks in the way for others
by what one eats or drinks (and by 'extrapolation' I
assume that's also valid for what one listens to).


So (sticking to the example) it would be bad to
listen to Punk, Death Metal and Goth music
(which I do) when someone is present who might
be offended.


Right?

Do you want to offend someone??



Anyway... stumbling blocks... as in things that might interfere with someone's relationship with God. It's simply not good to do things that cause another to stumble.


Now, as far as you listening to music that might offend or upset someone with you... I'd just say it was common decency to not do that if you knew it bothered them.

 

[Pink Spider]

[...]God is not way off on some throne
writing down all your actions to bring against you at judgment.

But many say so. And there is always judgment day -
and those who were good and obeyed all laws, their
names are written in the book of life - the rest will be
cast into the sea of fire and suffer for all eternity...

If there are “rules” and if there are “consequences”, they are only there to help you be and become what you really want to be and become.

Does God know what I really want?

Jesus shows us what God is like, so do you want to be like Jesus, because if you do, then you want to be like God is, and that is what God is wanting for you and will help you to become.

Jesus is God, right? He said:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew
10:34)

As much as I like Jesus and what he said and did -
he is also God and God or some angels are
constantly writing everything I do into a book and
come judgment day God or the angels will check
whether my name is in the book of life - if not it's the
fiery pit...

You are beginning a challenging adventuresome quest, so let’s not jump ahead and miss out on the fun of the quest. Let us get to know Jesus and see if we like Him.

Thanks, friend!

 

[Pink Spider]

Do you want to offend someone??

I used to. Now I'm not sure.

Anyway... stumbling blocks... as in things that might interfere with someone's relationship with God. It's simply not good to do things that cause another to stumble.

OK!

Now, as far as you listening to music that might offend or upset someone with you... I'd just say it was common decency to not do that if you knew it bothered them.

Right - the whole offending thing isn't that much
fun anyway...

 

[Pink Spider]

BTW, since you brought up Punk.. Siouxsie and the Banshees are my favorite rock group of all time. They were brilliant, IMO. That doesn't mean I endorse every lyric.

Yepp! One of my top 10 also!

 

[prov1810]

Jesus is God, right? He said:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew
10:34)

When He came and preached, there were some who believed and some who did not. There were believers who were shunned by their communities and even their families. Jesus is saying that this is inevitable.

As much as I like Jesus and what he said and did -
he is also God and God or some angels are
constantly writing everything I do into a book and
come judgment day God or the angels will check
whether my name is in the book of life - if not it's the
fiery pit...

God, who created you in His image, is constantly sustaining your life. We all do things that are wrong, but the Bible says that God is patient and slow to anger and abounding in love. He's not looking for a way to judge you. Jesus did not come to condemn - He only came to save. His name means "God saves".

In a way, hell is more about sin than God. We receive back what we have given in life, and our choices define what we are. Hell is a morally perfect place. Sin is that bad.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Greetings.

Please excuse this naïve question.

Apart from the ten commandments - what is allowed
and what is forbidden?
If god is constantly watching and all wrongdoing is
noted and written down - it must be of utmost
importance to know what is allowed and what is
forbidden, in other words:

What pleases god - and what doesn't?

Take for example music. What kind of music pleases
god and what kind leads to hell?

The 613 commandments of the Torah, (the Torah correspons to the five books of the Pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) were given exclusively to the Children of Isreael--Jews.

When Moses came down off the mountain to the Israelites, the commandments begin thusly,

"And God spoke all these words, saying, 'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.'" - Exodus 20:1-2

The people addressed are those who were taken out of slavery in Egypt. These are the recipients of the Torah or Law. Indeed, the Torah is for no other people than these,

"He declares His word to Jacob,
His statutes and rules to Israel.
He has not dealt thus with any other nation;
they do not know His rules.
Hallelujah!" - Psalm 147:19-20

God established a national covenant with the nation of people, Israel, which He delivered from bondage in Egypt. This Covenant involved the giving them of the Torah, a set of instructions on how they were to live and function as His covenant people.

What God gave the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai wasn't for anyone else. Non-Jews, or Gentiles, are under no obligation to observe these commandments. They never have been and never will be.

When this became a focal point of controversy in the early Christian Church, the Church leadership argued that Gentile converts to Christianity were to be embraced fully into the Church as Gentiles, without becoming Jews or observing the Jewish commandments. Jews and Gentiles were to be accepted together, as one people, equal and joined together as one in the new faith.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." - St. Paul, Galatians 3:28

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Emmy]

Dear Pink Spider. Jesus tells a Lawyer in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Jesus also points out this great Truth: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is very important to God, freely given and No conditions made. All we say or do, all we advise or stand for, should be from Love and Compassion.
We treat all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends, we treat them as we would love to be treated. Jesus promised us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. ( Matthew 7: 7-8) We ask God for Love and Joy, then we share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. We will find that people will treat us the same as we treat people. Love is very catching.
Love is also a very strong weapon which Christians have, Love will overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour. God will notice and God will bless us.
We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring. All things which are done from Love and kindness and compassion are allowed and blessed by God, all things which are done from selfishness or greed or are being unkind are forbidden.
God`s eternal Law of Justice will deal with that. We all know: What we sow
we will also reap. ( Galatians 6: 7-10) I say this with love, Pink Spider.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[food4thought]

Hi again, Pink Spider.

As ViaCrucis pointed out, we are not constrained to obey the Old Testament law. Those laws were given specifically to the Jewish people and the New Testament (the portion of the Bible written after, and about, the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus) makes it clear that those of us who are not Jews (the Bible calls us "gentiles") are under no obligation to keep those laws (see Acts chapter 15, the 5th book in the New Testament). Even so, all of the Ten Commandments, except the Sabbath Law, are reaffirmed in the New Testament as something we need to obey as we follow Jesus. It's kind of complicated, but put simply: all those laws and rules in the Old Testament have been replaced with a simplified set of "do's and don'ts" in the New Testament. For simplicity, I am going to use NT and OT from here on out when referring to the New Testament and the Old Testament.

It is important to note that we all fall short of what God desires of us, and we all inevitably do things (or not do things) that place us at odds with God and in need of His forgiveness. The good news is that God has provided us forgiveness in Jesus Christ. This is the main message of the NT.

Jesus has told us what are THE most important commandments: love God with everything we have and love one another like we love ourselves. If we love God (worship and serve Him only) and others (put their needs above our own, give of ourselves for their good), then we are pleasing to God.

It has been my experience that when I focus on what I shouldn't be doing, I get tripped up, stressed out, and messed up. When I focus on what I SHOULD be doing (loving God and loving others), I tend to be much better off mentally, spiritually, and socially. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what God has told us to avoid, I am just saying that our focus should be on doing what is right instead of worrying about possibly doing something wrong.

That said, as you read through the NT you will find that most of what is forbidden there revolves around worshipping false "god's" (the Bible calls this "idolatry") and doing things that are harmful in some way to ourselves and/or others. If you think about it, these things ultimately relate back to the two great commandments: love God and love others as yourself.

As for music, it really boils down to message more than type of music. I have loved rock and metal most of my life, and still do... the thing is, there are A LOT really ungodly and hateful lyrics in many popular songs of every musical genre. My rule of thumb is that if the lyrics are ungodly, then I don't listen to it. Also, as someone else mentioned, if your style of music causes someone else discomfort, it is unloving to play it around them.

Hope this helps;

Mike

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi again, Pink Spider.

As ViaCrucis pointed out, we are not constrained to obey the Old Testament law. Those laws were given specifically to the Jewish people and the New Testament (the portion of the Bible written after, and about, the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus) makes it clear that those of us who are not Jews (the Bible calls us "gentiles") are under no obligation to keep those laws (see Acts chapter 15, the 5th book in the New Testament). Even so, all of the Ten Commandments, except the Sabbath Law, are reaffirmed in the New Testament as something we need to obey as we follow Jesus. It's kind of complicated, but put simply: all those laws and rules in the Old Testament have been replaced with a simplified set of "do's and don'ts" in the New Testament. For simplicity, I am going to use NT and OT from here on out when referring to the New Testament and the Old Testament.

It is important to note that we all fall short of what God desires of us, and we all inevitably do things (or not do things) that place us at odds with God and in need of His forgiveness. The good news is that God has provided us forgiveness in Jesus Christ. This is the main message of the NT.

Jesus has told us what are THE most important commandments: love God with everything we have and love one another like we love ourselves. If we love God (worship and serve Him only) and others (put their needs above our own, give of ourselves for their good), then we are pleasing to God.

It has been my experience that when I focus on what I shouldn't be doing, I get tripped up, stressed out, and messed up. When I focus on what I SHOULD be doing (loving God and loving others), I tend to be much better off mentally, spiritually, and socially. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what God has told us to avoid, I am just saying that our focus should be on doing what is right instead of worrying about possibly doing something wrong.

That said, as you read through the NT you will find that most of what is forbidden there revolves around worshipping false "god's" (the Bible calls this "idolatry") and doing things that are harmful in some way to ourselves and/or others. If you think about it, these things ultimately relate back to the two great commandments: love God and love others as yourself.

As for music, it really boils down to message more than type of music. I have loved rock and metal most of my life, and still do... the thing is, there are A LOT really ungodly and hateful lyrics in many popular songs of every musical genre. My rule of thumb is that if the lyrics are ungodly, then I don't listen to it. Also, as someone else mentioned, if your style of music causes someone else discomfort, it is unloving to play it around them.

Hope this helps;

Mike

This and the two post immediately preceding it sum up rather well my own position on this subject. I would only add that many of the 613 rules in the OT were like dietary rules, circumcision and declaring of certain things as unclean, seem to have had the specific purpose of separating, by their practices and lifestyle, the individuals that belonged to the nation of Israel from the other cultures and individuals that they lived near and among. Christians do are not supposed to separate ourselves from others in that way. Rather than separating ourselves from the rest of the world, we are supposed to be a part of the rest of the world and distinguish ourselves from the rest of the world, not by our dietary habits or any outward appearance or practice but by how we conduct ourselves in a loving compassionate and honorable manner. Certainly, we have all fallen short of that ideal but that is what we are to strive for. There are Christians that do not agree with my interpretation and will tell you that God sits on His throne like a mighty version of Santa Claus tallying up your sins and good deeds to decide whether you been good or bad and whether you ought to get a nice present or coal in your stocking but I think that vision of God is more a fantasy of the imagination of non believers than it is of actual Christians. There are those that will tell you what you do is not your own choice because the book is already written, so God is not spending His time watching what you are doing now because He knew before the universe was created exactly what you were going to do. The range of what different groups of and individual Christians believe makes it impossible to pin down one comprehensive vision of Christian thought. There are a very few things that apply across the whole spectrum of Christianity but among those few things is that the duty of the Christian really does boil down to the two great Commandments , Love God and Love your Neighbor as yourself and that your salvation does not depend upon what you do but what God has done for you.

 

[Pink Spider]

Hell is a morally perfect place. Sin is that bad.

Please excuse - but what do you mean by
'Hell is a morally perfect place' ?

Could you please elaborate a little?

Thank you!

 

[Pink Spider]

When Moses came down off the mountain to the Israelites, the commandments begin thusly,

"And God spoke all these words, saying, 'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.'" - Exodus 20:1-2

The people addressed are those who were taken out of slavery in Egypt. These are the recipients of the Torah or Law. Indeed, the Torah is for no other people than these,[...]
What God gave the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai wasn't for anyone else. Non-Jews, or Gentiles, are under no obligation to observe these commandments. They never have been and never will be.

That is good news. Why do Christians have to read
the Old Testament at all - when everything there is
only valid for the Jewish people?

When Moses came down off the mountain to the Israelites, the commandments begin thusly,
When this became a focal point of controversy in the early Christian Church, the Church leadership argued that Gentile converts to Christianity were to be embraced fully into the Church as Gentiles, without becoming Jews or observing the Jewish commandments. Jews and Gentiles were to be accepted together, as one people, equal and joined together as one in the new faith.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." - St. Paul, Galatians 3:28

Otherwise Christianity wouldn't have spread like
it did. No?

Are the Jewish people then still the chosen
people?

 

[Pink Spider]

Dear Pink Spider. Jesus tells a Lawyer in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Jesus also points out this great Truth: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is very important to God, freely given and No conditions made. All we say or do, all we advise or stand for, should be from Love and Compassion.

That's very difficult. Is one not allowed to hate
anybody?

[...]All things which are done from Love and kindness and compassion are allowed and blessed by God, all things which are done from selfishness or greed or are being unkind are forbidden.

Is going to war forbidden too?

God`s eternal Law of Justice will deal with that. We all know: What we sow
we will also reap. ( Galatians 6: 7-10) I say this with love, Pink Spider.

I understand. If I sow hatred - then I will reap
hatred.

Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Greetings from me - and thank you for caring!

 

[prov1810]

Please excuse - but what do you mean by
'Hell is a morally perfect place' ?

Could you please elaborate a little?

Thank you!

People receive back what they have given in life - rejection for their rejection of God, harm for harm against others, torment for rejecting hope.

This is how I think of it. And it seems to me that the people who are there accept the logic and fairness of their situation. I believe in a God who is just. Hell is terrible, but it is not gratuitously cruel.

 

[Pink Spider]

It is important to note that we all fall short of what God desires of us, and we all inevitably do things (or not do things) that place us at odds with God and in need of His forgiveness. The good news is that God has provided us forgiveness in Jesus Christ. This is the main message of the NT.

So - accepting Jesus, pray to him, repent and
try (as hard as we can) to be like him takes the
sins away?

It has been my experience that when I focus on what I shouldn't be doing, I get tripped up, stressed out, and messed up. When I focus on what I SHOULD be doing (loving God and loving others), I tend to be much better off mentally, spiritually, and socially. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what God has told us to avoid, I am just saying that our focus should be on doing what is right instead of worrying about possibly doing something wrong.

That does sound comforting. Thank you.

That said, as you read through the NT you will find that most of what is forbidden there revolves around worshipping false "god's" (the Bible calls this "idolatry") and doing things that are harmful in some way to ourselves and/or others. If you think about it, these things ultimately relate back to the two great commandments: love God and love others as yourself.

Are greed, selfishness etc. 'false gods'?

As for music, it really boils down to message more than type of music. I have loved rock and metal most of my life, and still do... the thing is, there are A LOT really ungodly and hateful lyrics in many popular songs of every musical genre. My rule of thumb is that if the lyrics are ungodly, then I don't listen to it.

Are those musicians/bands sort of 'tools of Satan'
to lead Christians astray?

Hope this helps;

Yes. Thank you Mike!

 

[Pink Spider]

Christians do are not supposed to separate ourselves from others in that way. Rather than separating ourselves from the rest of the world, we are supposed to be a part of the rest of the world and distinguish ourselves from the rest of the world, not by our dietary habits or any outward appearance or practice but by how we conduct ourselves in a loving compassionate and honorable manner.

I understand.

There are Christians that do not agree with my interpretation and will tell you that God sits on His throne like a mighty version of Santa Claus tallying up your sins and good deeds to decide whether you been good or bad and whether you ought to get a nice present or coal in your stocking but I think that vision of God is more a fantasy of the imagination of non believers than it is of actual Christians.

But there are righteous Christians who constantly
threaten people with eternal torment and hellfire.

They are very 'holy' and tell me (for example)
that I will go straight go to hell - if I listen to
Marilyn Manson - go figure...

There are those that will tell you what you do is not your own choice because the book is already written, so God is not spending His time watching what you are doing now because He knew before the universe was created exactly what you were going to do.

Does pre-knowledge necessarily imply pre-
determination and the impossibility of free
will?