Myth About the Bible - Busted!

[CoreyD]

If you have to change the unit of measurement from the value given to something else entirely to make it fit, then all you've done is shown that you don't care for the source material.

Well I did not change anything.
The cubit is an ancient unit of length based on the distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. It was primarily associated with the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Israelites. The term cubit is found in the Bible regarding Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, and Solomon's Temple. The common cubit was divided into 6 palms × 4 fingers = 24 digits. Royal cubits added a palm for 7 palms × 4 fingers = 28 digits. These lengths typically ranged from 44.4 to 52.92 cm (1 ft 5+1⁄2 in to 1 ft 8+13⁄16 in), with an ancient Roman cubit being as long as 120 cm (3 ft 11 in).

1 ft. 6 inch is what I used, based on the calculation here.
However, I just realized my mistake, in calculation. Sorry.
I don't know how I made that mistake, but I obviously failed to double check something.
I'll have to edit the OP.

Why do you have a problem with rounding an infinite number down to a whole number thought?

I hope you don't mind me saying that I'll never ask you to work on a building project.

That's okay, I make mistakes.... and besides, I am not into building, That's not my expertise.

 

[CoreyD]

I cant even believe what Im reading.

How could you make such a transparent blunder?

I'm human.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well I did not change anything.
The cubit is an ancient unit of length based on the distance from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger. It was primarily associated with the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Israelites. The term cubit is found in the Bible regarding Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, and Solomon's Temple. The common cubit was divided into 6 palms × 4 fingers = 24 digits. Royal cubits added a palm for 7 palms × 4 fingers = 28 digits. These lengths typically ranged from 44.4 to 52.92 cm (1 ft 5+1⁄2 in to 1 ft 8+13⁄16 in), with an ancient Roman cubit being as long as 120 cm (3 ft 11 in).

1 ft. 6 inch is what I used, based on the calculation here.
However, I just realized my mistake, in calculation. Sorry.
I don't know how I made that mistake, but I obviously failed to double check something.
I'll have to edit the OP.

Why do you have a problem with rounding an infinite number down to a whole number thought?

There's a difference to rounding an infinite number, and going "Oh, we've got one value here we can use... but we'll ignore that an use an entirely different value instead!" And that's important when you're dealing with anything related to maths because maths uses numbers specifically and clearly (well, in this case at least), so to use another value instead of the original one given does not smack of honesty.

 

[CoreyD]

Why couldn't you have used the original measurement? Why did you feel the need to change it when you know what the actual units were already?

It doesn't make a difference, and the original is not fixed, and precise, but ranges from 44.4 to 52.92 cm (1 ft. 5+1⁄2 in to 1 ft. 8+13⁄16 in).
The Jews used what they had to work with.

Let me get to editing the OP though, before more stones are pelted at me.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It doesn't make a difference, and the original is not fixed, and precise, but ranges from 44.4 to 52.92 cm (1 ft. 5+1⁄2 in to 1 ft. 8+13⁄16 in).
The Jews used what they had to work with.

Let me get to editing the OP though, before more stones are pelted at me.

It really does matter since you specifically bring up a measurement the Ancient Jews used, the sort they would use when writing the Bible, and then go "Nah, that's not going to work at all so I'll ignore it and use an entirely different measurement instead!"

If you don't want to use the original unit of measurement for a problem, don't attempt the problem in the first place.

 

[CoreyD]

There's a difference to rounding an infinite number, and going "Oh, we've got one value here we can use... but we'll ignore that an use an entirely different value instead!"

What are you saying?
You lost me. Sorry.
What is the difference between 3, and 3.1416? Or what is the difference between 3.14159xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and 3.1416?

What is being ignored?

And that's important when you're dealing with anything related to maths because maths uses numbers specifically and clearly (well, in this case at least), so to use another value instead of the original one given does not smack of honesty.

So those who use 3.1416 instead of 3.14159xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx are dishonest?

 

[CoreyD]

It really does matter since you specifically bring up a measurement the Ancient Jews used, the sort they would use when writing the Bible, and then go "Nah, that's not going to work at all so I'll ignore it and use an entirely different measurement instead!"

If you don't want to use the original unit of measurement for a problem, don't attempt the problem in the first place.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
What have I ignored? Please be specific.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What are you saying?
You lost me. Sorry.
What is the difference between 3, and 3.1416? Or what is the difference between 3.14159xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and 3.1416?

What is being ignored?


So those who use 3.1416 instead of 3.14159xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx are dishonest?

I'm not talking about Pi. It's obvious that I'm talking about you saying that the Ancient Jews used 17.5 inches to refer to a cubit, but you decided to use 18 inches for a cubit for no reason at all.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I have no idea what you are talking about.
What have I ignored? Please be specific.

I cannot tell if you're being deliberately obtuse here or honestly just blind.

 

[CoreyD]

I cannot tell if you're being deliberately obtuse here or honestly just blind.

I honestly do not know what value you are referring to - the value of 3.1416, or the 18 inches.
If the 18 inches, the value makes no difference, whether it is 17.5 or 19.5. The result will be the same.
So, neither obtuse nor blind, but simply clueless as to what you are arguing about.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I honestly do not know what value you are referring to - the value of 3.1416, or the 18 inches.
If the 18 inches, the value makes no difference, whether it is 17.5 or 19.5. The result will be the same.
So, neither obtuse nor blind, but simply clueless as to what you are arguing about.

The choice of using 18 inches instead of the given value of 17.5 inches. And yes, it makes a difference. Numbers always make a difference since you're an extra half inch where there shouldn't be one, which will dramatically alter the results.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm human.

Fair enough. Ive done it too.

But to the problem: why even convert from cubits? pi is a ratio, so the units dont matter so long as they are consistent. The result will be identical no matter what units you convert cubits to.

So just use the number of generic units given to us: 30 units circumference / 10 units diam = 3.00, which is not pi.

 

[CoreyD]

The choice of using 18 inches instead of the given value of 17.5 inches. And yes, it makes a difference. Numbers always make a difference since you're an extra half inch where there shouldn't be one, which will dramatically alter the results.

Okay. Prove your claim.
Show me that it makes a difference.
Or would you prefer I show you?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Okay. Prove your claim.
Show me that it makes a difference.
Or would you prefer I show you?

Because it changes the values of the measurements for the diameter.
17.5 inches x 30 = 525 inches
The diameter will then be 167.1 inches.
Divide 525 by 167.1 gives Pi - 3.14183123878

I never said the calculation was incorrect. I was pointing out that not using the unit values given was dishonest.

 

[durangodawood]

We type in the circumference, which is 540 inches (30 cubic - 18 in x 30 in.).​

Ok, youre using a conversion of exactly 18 inches per cubit for the circumference. No problem

Which gives us a diameter of 171.88 inches, which is 10 cubic.​

When we convert back from 171.88 inches at exactly 18 inches per cubit, we dont get 10 cubits. We get appx 9.55. Very different.

As I said earlier. Theres no reason at all to convert. It just makes opportunities for error. Just use the units given to us in the Bible verse.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Jews used a whole number, rather than concern themselves with decimal points, which did not concern them since they are not Mathematicians.
So, they used a whole number which would represents PI, and how is that a problem?

Because it's not Pi, and thus the Bible does not describe Pi at all.

 

[CoreyD]

Fair enough. Ive done it too.

But to the problem: why even convert from cubits? pi is a ratio, so the units dont matter so long as they are consistent. The result will be identical no matter what units you convert cubits to.

So just use the number of generic units given to us: 30 units circumference / 10 units diam = 3.00, which is not pi.

True, but it's the same difference.
What is PI?

Pi (π) is the first number we learn about at school where we can’t write it as an exact decimal – it is a mysterious number which has digits which go on forever and has fascinated people for thousands of years.
We learn that we can start to write down Pi (π) = 3.141592653589….. but that we can never finish it. Pi (π) goes on forever and has no repeating pattern to its digits – it is what is called an irrational number.

If it cannot be rounded down, then how do you get 3.1416?
Is it not because of modern technological advancement?
How can this be done by ancients, and why should it concern them?

How Many Decimals of Pi Do We Really Need? NASA Answers

 

[sjastro]

As alluded to by other posters anyone familiar with high school mathematics will understand π is a dimensionless constant having the same value irrespective of which distance units are used.
Since a cubit is a unit of distance which doesn’t require conversion the Kings verse explicitly states the rim to rim distance which is the diameter is 10 cubits and the circumference is 30 cubits, hence 30/10 = 3.

The value of π has changed over the centuries, the calculation of π based on the Biblical dimensions is less accurate than the earlier Babylonian and Egyptian derivations.

 

[BCP1928]

True, but it's the same difference.
What is PI?

Pi (π) is the first number we learn about at school where we can’t write it as an exact decimal – it is a mysterious number which has digits which go on forever and has fascinated people for thousands of years.
We learn that we can start to write down Pi (π) = 3.141592653589….. but that we can never finish it. Pi (π) goes on forever and has no repeating pattern to its digits – it is what is called an irrational number.

If it cannot be rounded down, then how do you get 3.1416?
Is it not because of modern technological advancement?
How can this be done by ancients, and why should it concern them?

How Many Decimals of Pi Do We Really Need? NASA Answers

Who says it can't be rounded down?

 

[CoreyD]

Ok, youre using a conversion of exactly 18 inches per cubit for the circumference. No problem

When we convert back from 171.88 inches at exactly 18 inches per cubit, we dont get 10 cubits. We get appx 9.55. Very different.

As I said earlier. Theres no reason at all to convert. It just makes opportunities for error. Just use the units given to us in the Bible verse.

Please tell me you did not go back to the OP to find something to pick at. That is where the calculation went wrong. Would you like me to delete that, so that you do not have anything in the OP to look for to attack, and you can deal with what is being said currently?