Myth About the Bible - Busted!

[CoreyD]

Because it's not Pi, and thus the Bible does not describe Pi at all.

I didn't read about PI, in the Bible either, but yet, some skeptic saw PI in the Bible, even though, as you said "the Bible does not describe Pi at all."
So, can I say the objection that the Bible says PI is 3, is a myth?
Would you back me on that?

 

[durangodawood]

Please tell me you did not go back to the OP to find something to pick at. That is where the calculation went wrong. Would you like me to delete that, so that you do not have anything in the OP to look for to attack, and you can deal with what is being said currently?

Yes Im embarrassed to say I actually wanted to find out precisely where your error originated.

Anyway, I do agree with you that the Bible doesn't give pi as 3. This is because the verse is not meant to be a presentation of pi. Its a guy describing a model in rough figures.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I didn't read about PI, in the Bible either, but yet, some skeptic saw PI in the Bible, even though, as you said "the Bible does not describe Pi at all."
So, can I say the objection that the Bible says PI is 3, is a myth?
Would you back me on that?

No, the Bible does say that Pi is 3. That's not a myth, it's a fact.
But, since as you say in the OP that the Ancient Jews were not mathematicians and that the Bible is not a maths textbook, such a fallible thing can be seen as human error, no?

 

[BCP1928]

Please tell me you did not go back to the OP to find something to pick at. That is where the calculation went wrong. Would you like me to delete that, so that you do not have anything in the OP to look for to attack, and you can deal with what is being said currently?

It might be better to restate your argument entirely, because the "skeptics" only have a point if you insist that the diameter of the vessel must be 10 cubits exactly and the circumference must be 30 cubits exactly.

 

[Tinker Grey]

It might be better to restate your argument entirely, because the "skeptics" only have a point if you insist that the diameter of the vessel must be 10 cubits exactly and the circumference must be 30 cubits exactly.

Part of the point is WRT the "perfection" of the Bible. If instead of

He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits[a] to measure around it.​

It said, "And a line of thirty cubits could not quite measure around it." Then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[CoreyD]

Who says it can't be rounded down?

What can it be rounded down to?

 

[CoreyD]

It might be better to restate your argument entirely, because the "skeptics" only have a point if you insist that the diameter of the vessel must be 10 cubits exactly and the circumference must be 30 cubits exactly.

Okay, let's deal with the scripture then.
What is the precise value of a cubic, and why is the diameter of the vessel must being10 cubits exactly and the circumference being 30 cubits exactly, a problem for skeptics?

 

[CoreyD]

Yes Im embarrassed to say I actually wanted to find out precisely where your error originated.

Okay, sorry.
I edited the OP so that persons scratch those calculations entirely... hopefully.

Anyway, I do agree with you that the Bible doesn't give pi as 3. This is because the verse is not meant to be a presentation of pi. Its a guy describing a model in rough figures.

Thank you.
You are an agnostic, aren't you?
If my guess is wrong, please forgive me, but you don't seem to be an atheist, but more open minded.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Okay, let's deal with the scripture then.
What is the precise value of a cubic, and why is the diameter of the vessel must being10 cubits exactly and the circumference being 30 cubits exactly, a problem for skeptics?

I don't think you get what the problem about that verse is. It's not a problem for skeptics. It's a problem skeptics use when talking about how the Bible is clearly not 100% literally divinely inspired, as is often claimed by the Christians who do say it is 100% literally divinely inspired.

 

[CoreyD]

No, the Bible does say that Pi is 3. That's not a myth, it's a fact.

...but you said "the Bible does not describe Pi at all."
What do you mean "the Bible does say that Pi is 3"? You aren't playing games are you?

But, since as you say in the OP that the Ancient Jews were not mathematicians and that the Bible is not a maths textbook, such a fallible thing can be seen as human error, no?

Where exactly is the fallacy... or did you just create one, so that you can say this?

 

[CoreyD]

I don't think you get what the problem about that verse is. It's not a problem for skeptics. It's a problem skeptics use when talking about how the Bible is clearly not 100% literally divinely inspired, as is often claimed by the Christians who do say it is 100% literally divinely inspired.

Right. making up stuff to attack, so as to have an excuse to attack the Bible. I am right, aren't I?

 

[BCP1928]

What can it be rounded down to?

To any degree you find useful, The rules for rounding numbers are well understood and frequently applied for practical reasons. For example, with home shop projects of the kind I undertake I find 3.14 to be entirely satisfactory.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

...but you said "the Bible does not describe Pi at all."
What do you mean "the Bible does say that Pi is 3"? You aren't playing games are you?


Where exactly is the fallacy... or did you just create one, so that you can say this?

Ho boy...
Okay. So let's break this down simply.
In the passage given, the Bible describes a vessel. 30 cubits in circumference, and then 10 cubits across.
Following the basic math for finding the radius, 30/10 - 3. That does not equal Pi since it is 3.14.

This is what is called a 'human error'; an error made by humans. It happens when something is created by man. Ergo, the Bible was created by humans and not God. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

 

[BCP1928]

Right. making up stuff to attack, so as to have an excuse to attack the Bible. I am right, aren't I?

An attack on the Bible is not contemplated. What it is, is skepticism of a particular hermeneutic.

Okay, let's deal with the scripture then.
What is the precise value of a cubic, and why is the diameter of the vessel must being10 cubits exactly and the circumference being 30 cubits exactly, a problem for skeptics?

It's not a problem for skeptics, it's a problem for biblical literalists, because if the vessel is perfectly circular then one or both of those measurements must be imprecise.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Right. making up stuff to attack, so as to have an excuse to attack the Bible. I am right, aren't I?

Not in the slightest, no.

 

[CoreyD]

To any degree you find useful, The rules for rounding numbers are well understood and frequently applied for practical reasons. For example, with home shop projects of the kind I undertake I find 3.14 to be entirely satisfactory.

Not everyone thinks so.
Alabama's Slice of Pi

However, if I am just interested in the measurement of my bathtub being 30 cubits around, and 10 cubits wide, will I be able to get it right, if I am not interested in mathematical calculations?
I think so. What do you think?

 

[CoreyD]

Ho boy...
Okay. So let's break this down simply.
In the passage given, the Bible describes a vessel. 30 cubits in circumference, and then 10 cubits across.
Following the basic math for finding the radius, 30/10 - 3. That does not equal Pi since it is 3.14.

Who sought to find the radius?
Would that be those reading the text today, like yourself?
Why should that matter to those reading it prior?

This is what is called a 'human error'; an error made by humans. It happens when something is created by man. Ergo, the Bible was created by humans and not God. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

You seem to be saying that 30/10, or a ratio of one to three is a human error.
Am I understanding you correctly?
May I ask who decided that, and why?

 

[BCP1928]

Not everyone thinks so.
Alabama's Slice of Pi

However, if I am just interested in the measurement of my bathtub being 30 cubits around, and 10 cubits wide, will I be able to get it right, if I am not interested in mathematical calculations?
I think so. What do you think?

It depends on what you mean by "get it right." You won't be able to hold both of those dimensions exactly. If it is perfectly circular and to be exactly 10 cubits across then the circumference will be about 31.4... cubits. on the other hand, if you want it to have a circumference of exactly 30 cubits then the diameter will be about 9.549... cubits.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Who sought to find the radius?
Would that be those reading the text today, like yourself?
Why should that matter to those reading it prior?

Now those are good question to ask.

You seem to be saying that 30/10, or a ratio of one to three is a human error.
Am I understanding you correctly?
May I ask who decided that, and why?

... because the circumference of a circle is always divisible by pi, except in this particular case where the values given do not equal pi. In what way shape or form is that NOT a human error?

 

[BCP1928]

Who sought to find the radius?

It is implicit in finding the diameter.

Would that be those reading the text today, like yourself?

For anyone reading the text who assumed that the measurements given were exact.

Why should that matter to those reading it prior?

It doesn't even matter to those who are reading it now, except for those who assume that the measurements given must be exact.

You seem to be saying that 30/10, or a ratio of one to three is a human error.

Or a matter of indifference to an author whose literary purpose was merely to emphasize the grandness of the vessel, without interrupting the flow of his description with fractional values.

Am I understanding you correctly?
May I ask who decided that, and why?

Unknown. The value of pi was known to the ancient Sumerians, well before the writing of Kings. Who first discovered it is lost to history